Carryfast:
As for the M25 being of any relevance as a so called boundary with London’s over population and over development problem fortunately that’s an erroneous view ( so far ).
I reckon in the future we’ll see the Greater London Area being aligned to meet the M25. Several boroughs already have this. Enfield for example.
Regardless of where you draw the boundary, which is really just a line on a map, the level of development and the ensuing traffic that comes with it is far too high inside the M25. There’s simply too much going on and the roads are not even close to being good enough.
All cities have traffic issues but this is on another level. Not unusual for 10-15 mile journeys across inner London to take 2 hours. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Yet when you drive through there you see endless amounts of cranes and building sites. The new 1 bedroom flats being built at the Elephant and Castle development are going for half a million. Pfffft, I’d rather set fire to a quarter and buy a quarter mill house somewhere less polluted and without people saying the word fak and kant ever 3 seconds.
discoman:
simple, London is the capital, how many of these counties residents, rely on london for work look at liverpool st or KX, see how many head ot eh trains to head back to surrey essex kent etc. … I assure you if you did a FOI to LUL and the overground services , you would see loads of 1-6 + D on the yearly travelcards… what about all the taxpayers fund shifted up north to pay for the lazy northerns who claim there is no work and ponce off the dole. …
it is to expensive to live in london, I own my house in London and it will be paid off in full in apporx 3 years and I will be only 43. why because I saved like hell when i was young … would of been paid off quicker but I chose to have children etc.
EOTD, if you drivers wish to work for a pathetic wage doing 70 hours what I used to earn in 35 hours more fool you … London is my home town and sorry I would never live in a dive up north etc.
Sorry but most drivers, dont have the the qualifications or the drive to better themselves but would rather whine … its a rush hour ban … so deliveries will be made outside of them times!!
London is the capital fine.Then stay there within your own borders and don’t expect the south eastern counties to keep giving up ever more of their countryside because ‘Londoners’ can’t sustain or don’t even want to live in the over populated over developed zb hole that they’ve made for themselves.While you’ve then got the nerve to say that the resulting never ending invasion is a case of the residents of the surrounding counties wanting to work in London rather than London’s population and workers don’t actually like living in London so invade their neighbours instead.Then try to turn the areas they’ve invaded into the same type of urban zb hole that they left.
As for Boris if it’s really a rush hour ( effectively day time ) ‘ban’ that he’s proposing then what is he waiting for and why the need for a ‘charge’.
Carryfast:
As for the M25 being of any relevance as a so called boundary with London’s over population and over development problem fortunately that’s an erroneous view ( so far ).
I reckon in the future we’ll see the Greater London Area being aligned to meet the M25. Several boroughs already have this. Enfield for example.
Regardless of where you draw the boundary, which is really just a line on a map, the level of development and the ensuing traffic that comes with it is far too high inside the M25. There’s simply too much going on and the roads are not even close to being good enough.
All cities have traffic issues but this is on another level. Not unusual for 10-15 mile journeys across inner London to take 2 hours. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Yet when you drive through there you see endless amounts of cranes and building sites. The new 1 bedroom flats being built at the Elephant and Castle development are going for half a million. Pfffft, I’d rather set fire to a quarter and buy a quarter mill house somewhere less polluted and without people saying the word fak and kant ever 3 seconds.
You’ve still not shown where and how you get the idea that there is any connection between ‘inside’ the M25 and the type of urban pressures and environment that London,by definition being an unsustainably over developed ‘City’,has made for itself.IE it’s just a motorway nothing more nothing less and denotes nothing.Which itself is just yet another symptom of London’s historic policy of dumping its own self inflicted problems on its surrounding neighbouring Counties.In Enfield’s case to the point of actually wiping out a whole County.
As for Enfield’s boundaries no the London Borough boundaries were in place long before the M25 was even there and should stay that way or even be pushed back closer to their pre 1965 position.While telling all those who view the M25 as any relevant marker to do one.On that note I don’t think that the residents of Surrey,Kent,Essex and Herts etc are likely to want to commit geographic and environmental quality of life suicide,by following your ideas to turn yet more of themselves over to London and make the rest a London ‘suburb’ stretching almost to the Channel.
discoman:
simple, London is the capital, how many of these counties residents, rely on london for work look at liverpool st or KX, see how many head ot eh trains to head back to surrey essex kent etc. … I assure you if you did a FOI to LUL and the overground services , you would see loads of 1-6 + D on the yearly travelcards… what about all the taxpayers fund shifted up north to pay for the lazy northerns who claim there is no work and ponce off the dole. …
it is to expensive to live in london, I own my house in London and it will be paid off in full in apporx 3 years and I will be only 43. why because I saved like hell when i was young … would of been paid off quicker but I chose to have children etc.
EOTD, if you drivers wish to work for a pathetic wage doing 70 hours what I used to earn in 35 hours more fool you … London is my home town and sorry I would never live in a dive up north etc.
Sorry but most drivers, dont have the the qualifications or the drive to better themselves but would rather whine … its a rush hour ban … so deliveries will be made outside of them times!!
lol! are you white? I live in a dive called Alderley Edge! it’s in Cheshire. Google it. I bet you’re not even a ■■■■- er - knee either London? You’re welcome to it, ■■■■■■ ■■■■ hole!
discoman:
simple, London is the capital, how many of these counties residents, rely on london for work look at liverpool st or KX, see how many head to the trains to head back to surrey Essex Kent etc. … I assure you if you did a FOI to LUL and the overground services , you would see loads of 1-6 + D on the yearly travelcards… what about all the taxpayers fund shifted up north to pay for the lazy northerns who claim there is no work and ponce off the dole. …
it is to expensive to live in london, I own my house in London and it will be paid off in full in apporx 3 years and I will be only 43. why because I saved like hell when i was young … would of been paid off quicker but I chose to have children etc.
EOTD, if you drivers wish to work for a pathetic wage doing 70 hours what I used to earn in 35 hours more fool you … London is my home town and sorry I would never live in a dive up north etc.
Sorry but most drivers, dont have the the qualifications or the drive to better themselves but would rather whine … its a rush hour ban … so deliveries will be made outside of them times!!
lol! are you white? I live in a dive called Alderley Edge! it’s in Cheshire. Google it. I bet you’re not even a ■■■■- er - knee either London? You’re welcome to it, [zb] [zb] hole!
Yes I am “white” and I was born in London and I was born in East London, fact remains, London is only a dive to the whimps who are scared to drive in the capital,… more to the point change is good … whether it likes or not!! rather the hole of london than the hole up north… you might be aware from other posts I am currently not there … however cannot wait to get back to a real buzz of City life … Sydney is ok but not London …
cant believe we’ve coments about up north being a dive , does anyone tidy there front garden in london do you ever clean your windows , etc etc
My house ( East midland ) might be only worth a 1/4 of the value of a one bed flat in some parts of London but at least it’s kept smart and tidy ,
When we take our rubbish out we place it in the bin , not open the front door and launch it .
discoman:
simple, London is the capital, how many of these counties residents, rely on london for work look at liverpool st or KX, see how many head to the trains to head back to surrey Essex Kent etc. … I assure you if you did a FOI to LUL and the overground services , you would see loads of 1-6 + D on the yearly travelcards…
In my area we are completely inundated with applications to build large housing estates, some for 100+ houses predominantly of 4 or more bedrooms, these attached to villages with stations on the South Eastern main line or those villages nearby. These houses are not aimed at local people, they are for the commuter market - the ones who abandon their Chelsea tractor as near to the station as they can get it. Once cuckoo’d in place come the complaints about real tractors, mud, the smell from farm animals, dust at harvest time etc. Of far greater importance are the objections raised to the activities of any (fortunate) pre-existing local industrial businesses, which had provided employment in the immediate area. Then comes the demand from their favourite Supermarket megastore to build as close as possible to cater for the needs of the expanded quasi-urban area.
The result is that young local people cannot afford to buy their own home, the richest of the commuting london workers meanwhile start buying up smaller properties to rent out, at a new local market level which precludes their occupants ever affording a deposit. The local shops cannot compete with the megastore and their premises become a sea of estate agents and charity shops hoping to cash in on the new perceived opportunities.
Moving away from the villages to the southern outskirts of the Town there are plans for, and building in progress of, some approximately 2,000 houses off an 800 yard stretch of main road which was already exceeding its traffic handling capability. Much of this additional traffic being commuter generated to destinations in outer london plus of course the journeys related to a family’s requirements.
As for relying on London for employment this I agree is partly the case, but created by past government policies which have influenced a generation to believe that sitting on one’s backside; shuffling money about, or gambling on the future value of some essential commodity, or arguing in court whether newspapers are printed in white ink on black paper or t’other way round; is of more value to society than actually producing a product or service and hence desreves greater financial reward. The establishment meanwhile had ensured that their own little world of ex Oxford college friends would not suffer competition from other areas of the country.
discoman:
simple, London is the capital, how many of these counties residents, rely on london for work look at liverpool st or KX, see how many head to the trains to head back to surrey Essex Kent etc. … I assure you if you did a FOI to LUL and the overground services , you would see loads of 1-6 + D on the yearly travelcards…
In my area we are completely inundated with applications to build large housing estates, some for 100+ houses predominantly of 4 or more bedrooms, these attached to villages with stations on the South Eastern main line or those villages nearby. These houses are not aimed at local people, they are for the commuter market - the ones who abandon their Chelsea tractor as near to the station as they can get it. Once cuckoo’d in place come the complaints about real tractors, mud, the smell from farm animals, dust at harvest time etc. Of far greater importance are the objections raised to the activities of any (fortunate) pre-existing local industrial businesses, which had provided employment in the immediate area. Then comes the demand from their favourite Supermarket megastore to build as close as possible to cater for the needs of the expanded quasi-urban area.
The result is that young local people cannot afford to buy their own home, the richest of the commuting london workers meanwhile start buying up smaller properties to rent out, at a new local market level which precludes their occupants ever affording a deposit. The local shops cannot compete with the megastore and their premises become a sea of estate agents and charity shops hoping to cash in on the new perceived opportunities.
Moving away from the villages to the southern outskirts of the Town there are plans for, and building in progress of, some approximately 2,000 houses off an 800 yard stretch of main road which was already exceeding its traffic handling capability. Much of this additional traffic being commuter generated to destinations in outer london plus of course the journeys related to a family’s requirements.
As for relying on London for employment this I agree is partly the case, but created by past government policies which have influenced a generation to believe that sitting on one’s backside; shuffling money about, or gambling on the future value of some essential commodity, or arguing in court whether newspapers are printed in white ink on black paper or t’other way round; is of more value to society than actually producing a product or service and hence desreves greater financial reward. The establishment meanwhile had ensured that their own little world of ex Oxford college friends would not suffer competition from other areas of the country.
Cav551…
Excellent, and nicely put…
In the not too distant future, London will become like Monaco, only the extremely wealthy and wealthy foreigners, will live there, the workers will live on the outskirts and be bused in and out every day…
I lived in Antibes for a period in the late '70’s early '80’s and even that far back use to watch the “Monoco shuttle” going to and fro, with the “ordinary workers”
I’m pretty sure also, that when a terrorist atrocity happens in the capital, and it will, there will no doubt be an exodus of the wealthy to safer grounds out in the country, to the sort of places that you have described…
discoman:
Yes I am “white” and I was born in London and I was born in East London, fact remains, London is only a dive to the whimps who are scared to drive in the capital,… more to the point change is good … whether it likes or not!! rather the hole of london than the hole up north… you might be aware from other posts I am currently not there … however cannot wait to get back to a real buzz of City life … Sydney is ok but not London …
You mean the ‘buzz of city life’ that so many so called Londoners vote with their feet to not to want to live in.Because they prefer to invade the surrounding counties having turned their own place into an over developed zb hole.Where they then start the whole process off again.To the point where they’ve now turned small former Surrey County market towns like Kingston into what are effectively now inner city environments and over developed ‘suburbs’ from which,as usual,they are looking towards further outward expansion of their rolling urbanisation again.To the point where we’ve now got Guildford and Reigate,and surrounding areas among others being next if not already on their hit list.
Fergie47:
In the not too distant future, London will become like Monaco, only the extremely wealthy and wealthy foreigners, will live there, the workers will live on the outskirts and be bused in and out every day…
I lived in Antibes for a period in the late '70’s early '80’s and even that far back use to watch the “Monoco shuttle” going to and fro, with the “ordinary workers”
I’m pretty sure also, that when a terrorist atrocity happens in the capital, and it will, there will no doubt be an exodus of the wealthy to safer grounds out in the country, to the sort of places that you have described…
The reality is that many of those who you’re describing see it more as an investment and speculation exercise not as a place where they want to live.While commuting is nothing new and is again more a case of London dumping its housing needs,like its infrastructure needs,on its surrounding neighbouring counties.In many cases because those who profess to calling it their ‘great city’ and ‘home’ often don’t want to put their home location and resulting quality of life where their mouth is.But ironically unfortunately they also often never lose the contradiction of them also being predisposed to a liking for urbanisation.
Carryfast:
I don’t think that the residents of Surrey,Kent,Essex and Herts etc are likely to want to commit geographic and environmental quality of life suicide,by following your ideas to turn yet more of themselves over to London and make the rest a London ‘suburb’ stretching almost to the Channel.
Yeah, my idea lol.
I don’t give a rats ■■■ what they do with London and the so called commuter belt feeding it. I don’t have to live there.
You mean the ‘buzz of city life’ that so many so called Londoners vote with their feet to not to want to live in.Because they prefer to invade the surrounding counties having turned their own place into an over developed zb hole.Where they then start the whole process off again.To the point where they’ve now turned small former Surrey County market towns like Kingston into what are effectively now inner city environments and over developed ‘suburbs’ from which,as usual,they are looking towards further outward expansion of their rolling urbanisation again.To the point where we’ve now got Guildford and Reigate,and surrounding areas among others being next if not already on their hit list.
So basically Inner London is an over developed ■■■■ hole and now the cockernees are turning the surrounding areas into the same. Which is what I’ve been complaining about the whole time.
It’s a shame the long range rocket from Korea didn’t get lost and flatten London, then rebuild it with better roads .
Why do Londoners have expensive cars and 4x4 ,s when the average speed is three miles an hour .
Their Range Rovers will never get muddy or drive down a country road .
The following two articles by Oliver Wainwright in the Guardian give an insight into what really goes on. How the fat cats get richer every day and how the plebs get ■■■■ upon.
Carryfast:
I don’t think that the residents of Surrey,Kent,Essex and Herts etc are likely to want to commit geographic and environmental quality of life suicide,by following your ideas to turn yet more of themselves over to London and make the rest a London ‘suburb’ stretching almost to the Channel.
Yeah, my idea lol.
I don’t give a rats ■■■ what they do with London and the so called commuter belt feeding it. I don’t have to live there.
You mean the ‘buzz of city life’ that so many so called Londoners vote with their feet to not to want to live in.Because they prefer to invade the surrounding counties having turned their own place into an over developed zb hole.Where they then start the whole process off again.To the point where they’ve now turned small former Surrey County market towns like Kingston into what are effectively now inner city environments and over developed ‘suburbs’ from which,as usual,they are looking towards further outward expansion of their rolling urbanisation again.To the point where we’ve now got Guildford and Reigate,and surrounding areas among others being next if not already on their hit list.
So basically Inner London is an over developed [zb] hole and now the cockernees are turning the surrounding areas into the same. Which is what I’ve been complaining about the whole time.
Firstly there’s a big difference between them ‘turning’ and/or ‘wanting to turn’ more of the surrounding counties into the same as opposed to having ‘turned’.IE they haven’t succeeded ‘yet’ and there’s more chance of stopping the zb’s if our local authorities finally have the bottle to say enough no more and we actually want some back.
While if I’ve read it right it’s you who’s supportive of the idea of viewing the M25 as a potential new even Greater London boundary obviously based on some bs erroneous idea that everywhere within it is already an inner City environment or typical Greater London suburb.Bearing in mind that the ONS already views Guildford among other parts of the South East as part of the Greater London Urban area for its purposes.
cav551:
The following two articles by Oliver Wainwright in the Guardian give an insight into what really goes on. How the fat cats get richer every day and how the plebs get [zb] upon.
To be fair the Guardian isn’t exactly on the side of stopping even more of the South East being turned into even Greater London.All based on the same bs logic as before since Victorian times that it’s a supply issue.As opposed to demand exceeding what we can actually provide unless we turn even more of the surrounding counties into an even bigger version of London.Where no one with any sense then wants to live so they then move out even further.
dozy:
cant believe we’ve coments about up north being a dive , does anyone tidy there front garden in london do you ever clean your windows , etc etc
My house ( East midland ) might be only worth a 1/4 of the value of a one bed flat in some parts of London but at least it’s kept smart and tidy ,
When we take our rubbish out we place it in the bin , not open the front door and launch it .
To be fair Dozy, you have a nervous breakdown at the thought of a 15 or having to run in on a Saturday morning.
East midlands is hardly up north is it!! … and you get run down areas in all parts of the UK …
dozy:
cant believe we’ve coments about up north being a dive , does anyone tidy there front garden in london do you ever clean your windows , etc etc
My house ( East midland ) might be only worth a 1/4 of the value of a one bed flat in some parts of London but at least it’s kept smart and tidy ,
When we take our rubbish out we place it in the bin , not open the front door and launch it .
We’ve got the weather to do that for us around here of late. I come home from work and the entire neighbourhood’s bin bags are rolling around like Texas Tumbleweed.
Then the no-speke-english binmen come along, and chuck most of it back into people’s gardens. I’ve got a load of alien rubbish in my garden - alien in that none of this particular rubbish appears to come from my immediate neighbours… Perhaps I should set up a wind trap generator in my front garden, seeing as all the entire prevailing winds seem to be bringing rubbish from far away trade winds… I get sand from Sahara caking on my motor in the summer months too.
Carryfast:
Firstly there’s a big difference between them ‘turning’ and/or ‘wanting to turn’ more of the surrounding counties into the same as opposed to having ‘turned’.IE they haven’t succeeded ‘yet’ and there’s more chance of stopping the zb’s if our local authorities finally have the bottle to say enough no more and we actually want some back.
While if I’ve read it right it’s you who’s supportive of the idea of viewing the M25 as a potential new even Greater London boundary obviously based on some bs erroneous idea that everywhere within it is already an inner City environment or typical Greater London suburb.Bearing in mind that the ONS already views Guildford among other parts of the South East as part of the Greater London Urban area for its purposes.
This has gotten silly. I’m not supportive of anything. Get this, I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR STINKING RATHOLE LONDON. The only thing I’d support is sending all the foreigners there home, levelling half of it and planting some trees.
The M25 borders thing is something the London Assembly has been talking about for over a decade. It’s nothing to do with me and I don’t give a flying ■■■■ either way. My job forces me into London at the moment but once I move (next year) I don’t plan on ever going there again except maybe as a tourist.
All I was trying to say was that once you get inside the M25 you really don’t have to go very far for the traffic levels to become intolerable and the central parts are just a joke. I’m not interested in borders or boundaries or Surrey becoming this that or the other, that’s their problem.
Perhaps we could substitute the M62 for the M25 if one is from up there?
London Failed to take it’s chance in becoming “Casino City” when the plans for the ex-millenium dome becoming a huge casino - were shelved.
Blackpool is too far out of everyone’s way to ever be taken seriously by the people that keep casinos alive - losing small punters and high rollers.
The betting industry moans all the time these days - because it’s lower base of customers to be had - are nearly all shrewdies who win on a regular basis. Not good when it’s you paying out all the time, having laid their bets yourself without laying off!
The clever money at the moment says that Boris’ chances of being next prime minister have dropped since he’s not declared for the EU. Theresa May’s chances though - have increase, despite her having apparently not declared anything at all yet. She seems to be gaining ground at the floundering BoJo’s expense.
Terry T:
This has gotten silly. I’m not supportive of anything. Get this, I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR STINKING RATHOLE LONDON. The only thing I’d support is sending all the foreigners there home, levelling half of it and planting some trees.
The M25 borders thing is something the London Assembly has been talking about for over a decade. It’s nothing to do with me and I don’t give a flying [zb] either way. My job forces me into London at the moment but once I move (next year) I don’t plan on ever going there again except maybe as a tourist.
All I was trying to say was that once you get inside the M25 you really don’t have to go very far for the traffic levels to become intolerable and the central parts are just a joke. I’m not interested in borders or boundaries or Surrey becoming this that or the other, that’s their problem.
Ironically the reason why London has historically been able to get away with turning so much of its neighbour’s turf into a ‘stinking rathole’ is because of the same bs self fulfilling logic that says the dividing line which seperates that is now the M25. When anyone who actually lives in the area knows that traffic levels and the road environment,in terms of urbanisation,in and around Guildford are often a lot worse than travelling between Epsom and Cobham or even Cobham and Kingston for example.
As for what the London Assembly does or doesn’t want that’s no different to what the old LCC wanted ( and got ) in the post war years up to 1965.IE the place is just a destructive expansionist invasive speculative development scam,and always will be.
The point is at what point will the surrounding Counties say enough no more ‘before’ the GLA actually manages to carry out such another expansionist move.Let alone then,hopefully,including your ( correct ) solution in many cases of mass demolition and de urbanisation of many present ‘Greater London’ suburbs and their return to their previous rural or semi rural surrounding County status.
The fact that at least the County boundaries and associated Green Belt areas are still here suggests that the GLA obviously hasn’t managed to push through it’s bs plans in that regard so far.Which hopefully will remain the case, at least unless the Cons want to commit political suicide as well as geographic in the South Eastern Counties.Which would also obviously hopefully include the realisation of the implications of any large scale prohibitive truck tolls being imposed by TFL.Meaning yet more effective dumping of London’s unsustainable infrastructure needs on its neighbours in the form of yet more calls by the GLA for Green Belt development to provide the required trans shipment provision.
are you white? 
I live in a dive called Alderley Edge! 
it’s in Cheshire. Google it. 
I bet you’re not even a ■■■■- er - knee either 
do you ever clean your windows , etc etc
