Today I was queried by another of our driver’s about tacho law etc. Anyway, I said that I had driven 3 hours then had a break while tipping for 2 hours (before anyone says, the nature of my load is that I don’t touch it but just go to nearest cafe and wait 
), then I drove for 1 hour, had 20 mins break and I presumed that after this 20mins I would have 4.5 hours drive left. Not so said mate, he stated that I should have just had 30mins instead of 2 hours then had 15mins instead of 20 then I would have had 4.5 hours drive left. I thought that as long as I had enough breaks then I could drive as long as it wasn’t for longer than 4.5 hours. Who is right as this is how I have been doing it for ages and I’d hate to think I’ve been wrong all this time. 
You are right Penfold, There is a common misconception that your breaks have to be 45 minutes, when in fact they must be a minimum of 45 minutes. You were correct in what you did, although you could have driven for 4.5 hrs after your 2 hour break then stopped for another 45 and driving the rest of your legal daily hours (I hope that makes sense, it did when I was writing it). You are right in what you say about the 4.5 hrs, that is the maximum continous drive allowed without a break. Hope the above helps. 
So he is saying that your first break reset your driving time as 2 hours is more than 45 mins?
Sorry Penfold, but as far as I understand once you’ve had a 45+ break that it for that driving period and you then start another 4.5 hour driving period.
So you could do 3 hours have 30 mins then do another 1.5 hours have 15 mins then drive for 4.5 hours, but you can’t do 3 hours driving have 2 hours break then do 1.5 hours have 15 minutes, then drive for 4.5 hours.
Yes the system can be nuts, but it’s what we’ve got, so you have to make it work for you.
muckles:
Sorry Penfold, but as far as I understand once you’ve had a 45+ break that it for that driving period and you then start another 4.5 hour driving period.
So you could do 3 hours have 30 mins then do another 1.5 hours have 15 mins then drive for 4.5 hours, but you can’t do 3 hours driving have 2 hours break then do 1.5 hours have 15 minutes, then drive for 4.5 hours.
Yes the system can be nuts, but it’s what we’ve got, so you have to make it work for you.
This is what I meant about the common misconception, it is the driving period that dictate the breaks, not the breaks that dictate the driving period.
penfold:
Today I was queried by another of our driver’s about tacho law etc. Anyway, I said that I had driven 3 hours then had a break while tipping for 2 hours (before anyone says, the nature of my load is that I don’t touch it but just go to nearest cafe and wait
i`m afraid your wrong penfold
you would only have 3 1/2 hours driving time left unless you took a futher 30 mins.
jon
penfold:
Today I was queried by another of our driver’s about tacho law etc. Anyway, I said that I had driven 3 hours then had a break while tipping for 2 hours (before anyone says, the nature of my load is that I don’t touch it but just go to nearest cafe and wait
Your mate was right, you didn’t have 4.5 hours left after the 20 minute break, you would need to take another 25 minute break after a further 3.5 hours driving.
The two hours break you had meant you had a new 4.5 hour driving period.
So the best bet is to put the tacho on other work for 1 1/2 hours of the 2 hour stop■■?
Andyroo:
So he is saying that your first break reset your driving time as 2 hours is more than 45 mins?
He is, and it does.
With these regs I’m sometimes glad I only drive 50-100 km a day.
Andyroo:
So the best bet is to put the tacho on other work for 1 1/2 hours of the 2 hour stop■■?
That would work, not strictly within the law if you are on rest but you could always walk round and kick the tyres a couple of times, which would be other work. 
Coffeeholic:
penfold:
Today I was queried by another of our driver’s about tacho law etc. Anyway, I said that I had driven 3 hours then had a break while tipping for 2 hours (before anyone says, the nature of my load is that I don’t touch it but just go to nearest cafe and waitYour mate was right, you didn’t have 4.5 hours left after the 20 minute break, you would need to take another 25 minute break after a further 3.5 hours driving.
The two hours break you had meant you had a new 4.5 hour driving period.
I am sorry but I really do beg to differ on this, as I have said it is the driving time that dictates the breaks not the rest period, so as long as a minimum of 45 minutes have been taken in the first 4.5hr of driving then the next 4.5hr driving period can begin. By your rules if you drove for 10 minutes then had a rest for 45 you would then start a new 4.5hr driving period? where as with mine as long as a further 15minutes was taken at the end of the first 4.5hr driving period then the next driving period could begin.
Penfold, try looking at this site as they make the rules and also have a good site which will explain them to you
go on to HGV DRIVERS AND PSV DRIVERS this will then give you a site with lots of useful information which you can look up.
smcaul:
I am sorry but I really do beg to differ on this,
Good, I like a tach rules 'discussion.
smcaul:
as I have said it is the driving time that dictates the breaks not the rest period,
Correct
smcaul:
so as long as a minimum of 45 minutes have been taken in the first 4.5hr of driving then the next 4.5hr driving period can begin.
Correct and after 3 hours driving, which is within the 4.5 hours driving period, the slate is wiped clean and a new 4.5 begins.
smcaul:
By your rules if you drove for 10 minutes then had a rest for 45 you would then start a new 4.5hr driving period?
Correct, you would. And they are not my rules, they are the rules.
where as with mine as long as a further 15minutes was taken at the end of the first 4.5hr driving period then the next driving period could begin.
No, no, no. You are not still in the first 4.5 hour period, you are in a new period after the 45 minute break. Once you have taken a minimum of 45 mins then the driving before that is done with, apart from calculating the daily limit. A new 4.5 hours start and you have to take a minimum of 45 minutes at the end of, or during it.
Using your way, if Penfold had taken just 15 minutes after he drove the one hour, then drove for a further 4.5 hours he would have driven 5.5 hours with only a 15 minute break. He must take a break of 30 minutes after 3.5 hours. Howevere just to confuse things further you could drive for 5 minutes, take a 30 minute break, drive for 4 hours 25 minutes, take 15 minutes break then drive for 4.5 hours. That would be legal even though you did 8 hours 55 with only 15 minutes break because the new 4.5 hours started after the 15 minute break. Crazy i know, that is legal and Penfold’s way isn’t.
If you drove for say another 2 hours then took 45 mins you would start a new 4.5 hour period again.
By your rules if you drove for 10 minutes then had a rest for 45 you would then start a new 4.5hr driving period?
Yup thats the rules!! 
smcaul:
muckles:
Sorry Penfold, but as far as I understand once you’ve had a 45+ break that it for that driving period and you then start another 4.5 hour driving period.
So you could do 3 hours have 30 mins then do another 1.5 hours have 15 mins then drive for 4.5 hours, but you can’t do 3 hours driving have 2 hours break then do 1.5 hours have 15 minutes, then drive for 4.5 hours.
Yes the system can be nuts, but it’s what we’ve got, so you have to make it work for you.This is what I meant about the common misconception, it is the driving period that dictate the breaks, not the breaks that dictate the driving period.
I know what you are saying Smcaul and you are right, you don’t have to limit you breaks to 45 minutes, but once you’ve had 45 minutes break in a 4.5 hour driving period your driving period is reset.
Therefore having a 2 hour break after 3 hours driving reset Penfolds driving period, he then did another hours driving had 20 minutes, which meant hewould need another 25 minutes break before the end of the next 3.5 hours driving.
Not that he could do 4.5 hours after his 20 minute break.
He could have split the 2 hours into anything between 25 and 44 minutes break and then the rest as POA. then when he had his 20 minutes break he would have had completed that driving period and been able to do another 4.5 hours.
I hope this makes some sense, as I find it difficult to explain it in writing. 
This is from the PDF set of rules I have:
‘Article 7(1) and (2) of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the
harmonisation of certain social legislation relating to road transport is to be interpreted as
prohibiting drivers to which it applies from driving continuously for more than four and a half hours.
But where a driver has taken a 45 minute break either as a single break or as several breaks of at
least 15 minutes during or at the end of a four and a half hour period, the calculation provided for in
Article 1(1) of the Regulation should begin afresh, without taking into account the driving time and
breaks previously completed by the driver.’
Seems Coffeeholic is right… …
G
Gazzareth:
Seems Coffeeholic is right… …G
Seems to be one of his more annoying qualities.
muckles:
Gazzareth:
Seems Coffeeholic is right… …G
Seems to be one of his more annoying qualities.
Many have tried and many have failed when it comes to the tacho rules, and I’m still owed a breakfast from the last big tacho rules discussion we had on here.
Maybe i’m reading this wrongly (long day!) but it seems that you are saying the same thing i.e. agreeing.
What I do know, and find hard to believe, is that the ‘45 mins rest per 4½hrs driving’ is not based on a rolling total. Once the rest has been completed (45 mins in whatever way you legally take it) the driving time counter is reset.
Therefore, a legal example is as follows:
5 mins driving, 30 mins rest, 4h25 mins driving, 15 mins rest, 4h30min driving.
That equates to 8h55 min driving with only a 15 min break. The driving time counter was reset after the 15 min rest as that was a total of 45 mins, therefore leaving the driver in this example free to drive for another 4½hrs!!!