6.6 million pounds raised in fines. And all in the name of “road safety”.
Nite Owl:
06.6 million pounds raised in fines. And all in the name of “road safety”.
Before you start the whole it’s all money making because it’s authority bollox, have you actually got any more info than that? You never know, they may have actually got some genuinely dangerous drivers, vehicles, and companies off the road. Give them a chance at least they aren’t always the bad guys just because they wear a uniform.
Courtesy of google, road deaths have stayed fairly consistent at just under 1800 per year since 2012.
Meanwhile, the number of drivers being fined rocketed and continues to rise.
As a method of improving safety on our roads, it’s clear that fining people doesnt work. After all, if speed cameras worked as a deterrent, they wouldn’t catch anyone. Instead, police forces are taking on extra personnel to deal with the amount of people they’re catching.
dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … amera.html
Meanwhile, people carry on dying on our roads at the same rate they have for the past 8 years.
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.
The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
Rowley010:
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
Lets all hope you’ve nothing further to say on anything
Mazzer2:
Rowley010:
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
Lets all hope you’ve nothing further to say on anything
No I’ve got plenty to say
Rowley010:
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
You’ve just proven my point there. Whilst the focus of road safety is on speeding, all those other causes you’ve listed are being ignored because the motorways are policed by cameras, and cameras only catch speeders.
The two graphs I posted show there is no correlation between improved road safety and the amount of fines issued. Therefore, issuing fines has only one purpose. To raise money.
Now, unless you can post data that reinforces your point (like I have), then I’ll call it a day.
Nite Owl:
Rowley010:
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
You’ve just proven my point there. Whilst the focus of road safety is on speeding, all those other causes you’ve listed are being ignored because the motorways are policed by cameras, and cameras only catch speeders.
The two graphs I posted show there is no correlation between improved road safety and the amount of fines issued. Therefore, issuing fines has only one purpose. To raise money.
Now, unless you can post data that reinforces your point (like I have), then I’ll call it a day.
Surely that’s what they are doing in the original post? Something other than speeding?
Also speed is rarely the cause of a road death. The cause is something else but speed was a contributing factor. Speed may have been the difference between life and death but it wasn’t the route cause of the accident so it wouldn’t be recorded as such.
For example someone goes through a red light at 30 mph and drives into the side of a car. Occupants injured but alive. Same situation but the speed is increased the 60 and kills everyone. The cause of the accident won’t be recorded as speed, the cause will be vehicle going through the red light.
If someone ploughs into the back of stationary traffic on a motorway at 40 there’s more chance of everyone surviving than if they hit at 80. Cause of accident would be maybe driving without due care and attention, speed only a contributor not the cause.
Someone doesn’t check Mirrors on motorway and changes lane and the car doing 90mph in lane 3 crashes into them and someone dies. Speed isn’t the cause of the accident it’s the driver who changed lanes without checking mirrors. The speed made the crash worse but wasn’t the cause.
And that’s why your graphs are useless because speed will rarely be the root cause of an accident. Speed determines the severity of it.
The other factors I listed aren’t being ignored but you need a copper to catch drink or drug drivers or dangerous drivers or to find vehicle defects. Speed can be done with cameras without the need for a person.
Rowley010:
Surely that’s what they are doing in the original post? Something other than speeding?Also speed is rarely the cause of a road death. The cause is something else but speed was a contributing factor. Speed may have been the difference between life and death but it wasn’t the route cause of the accident so it wouldn’t be recorded as such.
For example someone goes through a red light at 30 mph and drives into the side of a car. Occupants injured but alive. Same situation but the speed is increased the 60 and kills everyone. The cause of the accident won’t be recorded as speed, the cause will be vehicle going through the red light.
If someone ploughs into the back of stationary traffic on a motorway at 40 there’s more chance of everyone surviving than if they hit at 80. Cause of accident would be maybe driving without due care and attention, speed only a contributor not the cause.
Someone doesn’t check Mirrors on motorway and changes lane and the car doing 90mph in lane 3 crashes into them and someone dies. Speed isn’t the cause of the accident it’s the driver who changed lanes without checking mirrors. The speed made the crash worse but wasn’t the cause.
And that’s why your graphs are useless because speed will rarely be the root cause of an accident. Speed determines the severity of it.
And that is something I can agree with. But it begs the question, if speed isn’t the cause of collisions, why is there such a focus on catching people who do it?
As for the opening post, £6.6 million in fines raised, yet no significant reduction in casualty figures.
gov.uk/government/collectio … statistics
fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet- … sigraceful
In my opinion, DVSA should be at ferry terminals or haulage yards checking these vehicles BEFORE they go out on the road. Maybe issue guidance and advice to prevent “dangerous” vehicles even entering the road network. But that of course doesnt raise 6.6 million pounds.
Nite Owl:
Rowley010:
Surely that’s what they are doing in the original post? Something other than speeding?Also speed is rarely the cause of a road death. The cause is something else but speed was a contributing factor. Speed may have been the difference between life and death but it wasn’t the route cause of the accident so it wouldn’t be recorded as such.
For example someone goes through a red light at 30 mph and drives into the side of a car. Occupants injured but alive. Same situation but the speed is increased the 60 and kills everyone. The cause of the accident won’t be recorded as speed, the cause will be vehicle going through the red light.
If someone ploughs into the back of stationary traffic on a motorway at 40 there’s more chance of everyone surviving than if they hit at 80. Cause of accident would be maybe driving without due care and attention, speed only a contributor not the cause.
Someone doesn’t check Mirrors on motorway and changes lane and the car doing 90mph in lane 3 crashes into them and someone dies. Speed isn’t the cause of the accident it’s the driver who changed lanes without checking mirrors. The speed made the crash worse but wasn’t the cause.
And that’s why your graphs are useless because speed will rarely be the root cause of an accident. Speed determines the severity of it.
And that is something I can agree with. But it begs the question, if speed isn’t the cause of collisions, why is there such a focus on catching people who do it?
As for the opening post, £6.6 million in fines raised, yet no significant reduction in casualty figures.
gov.uk/government/collectio … statistics
fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet- … sigraceful
In my opinion, DVSA should be at ferry terminals or haulage yards checking these vehicles BEFORE they go out on the road. Maybe issue guidance and advice to prevent “dangerous” vehicles even entering the road network. But that of course doesnt raise 6.6 million pounds.
There’s such a big focus on speed because it’s a massive contributing factor to how severe a crash is and can certainly be the difference between life and death.
Rowley010:
There’s such a big focus on speed because it’s a massive contributing factor to how severe a crash is and can certainly be the difference between life and death.
And yet according to the governments own figures, industry and motoring organisations, there has been no significant reduction in deaths on our roads.
Nite Owl:
Rowley010:
There’s such a big focus on speed because it’s a massive contributing factor to how severe a crash is and can certainly be the difference between life and death.And yet according to the governments own figures, industry and motoring organisations, there has been no significant reduction in deaths on our roads.
In your graph from 2004 to 2012 there’s is a steady reduction in road deaths, conveniently the speeding fines graph doesn’t cover these dates. So we can’t really make a full assessment without all the facts.
no doubt by law of average then there has to be a small percentage of valid fines issued.
in reality though,is imagine the vast majority of fines were due do the blind leading the blind with their beancounter easy pickings rules and regs that matter not one toss other than to provide easy revenue.
Maybe the only solution to keep some happy is to have a lawless society. No speed cameras, no vehicle checks and do away with speed limits too.
Yeah let’s have even more carnage than we already have. Was someone saying there has been a reduction in road deaths? Down to 1800 a year? Absolutely nothing to boast about.
Still far too many and most could be avoided if drivers drove as they should and not by making up their own rules. Unfortunately most aren’t clever enough for that.
Rowley010:
The 2 graphs you’ve provided mean nothing. Ones for road deaths which could have resulted from all sorts of reason. Alcohol, drugs, dangerous driving, careless driving, speed, vehicle defects.The other graph you produce is for speeding fines. One small part of what could have caused road deaths.
Also the fact you use figures from the daily mail to form part of your argument means the whole thing is void and I’ve nothing more to say to you if you believe anything they print.
Poor effort on providing facts there.
The graph showing fines doesn’t include the origin either.
(Origin: the zero fines point)
That makes for a much steeper gradient giving the impression of a “rocketing” rise.
(“Rocketing”: hmmm, couldn’t find a definition in my statistics text book for that)
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
jakethesnake:
Maybe the only solution to keep some happy is to have a lawless society. No speed cameras, no vehicle checks and do away with speed limits too.Yeah let’s have even more carnage than we already have. Was someone saying there has been a reduction in road deaths? Down to 1800 a year? Absolutely nothing to boast about.
Still far too many and most could be avoided if drivers drove as they should and not by making up their own rules. Unfortunately most aren’t clever enough for that.
The way some talk Jake including many on here I think a lawless society is exactly what people want.
Nite Owl:
06.6 million pounds raised in fines. And all in the name of “road safety”.
Given that DVSA are fining drivers for breaches of driving hours rules often not taking sufficient rest, defective vehicles and unsecure loads then they’re doing a hell of a lot more for safety than speed cameras do.
Quite clearly you’ve an axe to grind and I can only guess it’s because they’ve handed you a fine in the past. One wonders how bad you have to be to get such a fine as I’ve managed my entire 25+ years in lorries without ever handing them a penny.
dieseldog999:
no doubt by law of average then there has to be a small percentage of valid fines issued.
in reality though,is imagine the vast majority of fines were due do the blind leading the blind with their beancounter easy pickings rules and regs that matter not one toss other than to provide easy revenue.
For the HGV and Coach checks by DVSA and fines they issue at roadside checks and their checkpoints I’d guess that the vast majority are valid.
Conor:
dieseldog999:
no doubt by law of average then there has to be a small percentage of valid fines issued.
in reality though,is imagine the vast majority of fines were due do the blind leading the blind with their beancounter easy pickings rules and regs that matter not one toss other than to provide easy revenue.For the HGV and Coach checks by DVSA and fines they issue at roadside checks and their checkpoints I’d guess that the vast majority are valid.
Agree. And if they are getting drivers who are giving the middle finger to the rules, driving with 2 cards off the road, getting vehicles with dangerous defects parked up, getting GENUINE insecure loads off the road, and doing their bit to get seriously non compliant hauliers off the road then good on them.
Conor:
Nite Owl:
06.6 million pounds raised in fines. And all in the name of “road safety”.
Given that DVSA are fining drivers for breaches of driving hours rules often not taking sufficient rest, defective vehicles and unsecure loads then they’re doing a hell of a lot more for safety than speed cameras do.
Quite clearly you’ve an axe to grind and I can only guess it’s because they’ve handed you a fine in the past. One wonders how bad you have to be to get such a fine as I’ve managed my entire 25+ years in lorries without ever handing them a penny.
Alright warburtons, let me try this another way. Why is road enforcement so reactionary? Issuing 6.6 million pounds in fines to vehicles which shouldn’t be on the road is too late, THEY’RE ALREADY ON THE ■■■■■■■ ROAD! Why are hundreds of thousand of pounds in speeding fines issued? They are already speeding? Why are so many police cars unmarked? If they’re catching someone doing something they shouldnt, it’s too late. They’re already doing it!
Why isnt road safety enforcement proactive? Why arent dvsa visiting yards? Why isnt there a more visible police presence on the road to deter people from driving like pillocks?
You are right, I do have an axe to grind. But that’s because I, like you, have to share the roads with these idiots. And whilst road safety enforcement is simply reactive, road safety will not improve, the figures above show us that. And it sticks in my throat when they go bragging about raising millions of pounds in fines whilst I go out and deal with muppets every single night.