I have just had an email off the agency I’m employed by.
I don’t do much with them as I have other interests, but I don’t think they can do what they want to do.
At the moment they pay a flat rate per day taken and work out the days accrued by using the 12.07% method.
So if I work 10 days I accrue 1.2 days holiday paid at £■■ per day.I know for a fact that this is not right as it should be paid at the average over the last 12 weeks, but that is not the issue here.
As I see it what they are wanting to do is work out accrued hours by the last 12 weeks average. To me that’s not legal as every day worked should accrue hours, paid at the average over last 12 weeks.
I’ll post the email so you can give your opinions;
Just to make you aware from April 17 your holiday entitlement will be calculated by the number of hours worked each week not by the number of days worked per week.
Each driver works variable hours each week over variable days, therefore holiday entitlement needs to be calculated over every 12 weeks.
The method we use will be –
Step 1 - Add up the hours worked over the last 12 weeks. Divide by 12 to get an average per week.
Step 2 - Take average per week and multiply by 5.6 = holiday hours for the year.
Step 3 - Take the holiday hours for the year, divide by 52 and multiply by 12.
Step 4 - What you are left with is the correct amount of holiday hours accrued that can be booked.
From the 6th April 17 you will lose all holidays owing from this year if not taken by then, you will not be able to carry any over.
You don’t want to be paid “the average over the past 12 weeks” because it is all too common for you to be told when you’ve worked 5-6-5-6 pattern twelve weeks on the spin - that “you cannot take holiday next week - we’re too busy”… You’re then encouraged to take the holiday “when it’s quieter” and the rolling 12 week average has been broken up by a few weeks with only 1 or 2 days work in them. Any time when your 12 week aggregate is “high” you’ll be told “Not next week bud” by the more shady agencies - which’ll be most of them as plenty on here will tell you. Come March though, and you’ll suddenly be told “It’s this month or lose it - end of the financial year” for any outstanding holiday not yet taken that you might have been stockpiling for a “higher aggregate week”… Guess what? - Chances are you’ve just had a rather dry January and February, so that “average” drops right down low… Maybe working out at less than £300pw instead of the anticipated £500-£600 per week then.
On the other hand, the “12.07% method” means once the money goes into the pot - it stays in the pot until you decide to take it. It’s your money. It’s by far the better and fairer option.
Winseer:
You don’t want to be paid “the average over the past 12 weeks” because it is all too common for you to be told when you’ve worked 5-6-5-6 pattern twelve weeks on the spin - that “you cannot take holiday next week - we’re too busy”… You’re then encouraged to take the holiday “when it’s quieter” and the rolling 12 week average has been broken up by a few weeks with only 1 or 2 days work in them. Any time when your 12 week aggregate is “high” you’ll be told “Not next week bud” by the more shady agencies - which’ll be most of them as plenty on here will tell you. Come March though, and you’ll suddenly be told “It’s this month or lose it - end of the financial year” for any outstanding holiday not yet taken that you might have been stockpiling for a “higher aggregate week”… Guess what? - Chances are you’ve just had a rather dry January and February, so that “average” drops right down low… Maybe working out at less than £300pw instead of the anticipated £500-£600 per week then.
On the other hand, the “12.07% method” means once the money goes into the pot - it stays in the pot until you decide to take it. It’s your money. It’s by far the better and fairer option.
I know what you’re saying but I’m not particularly bothered about the amount paid for the holiday as much as how they work out how much holiday you get in the first place. If I’m reading the email correctly they are saying that holidays will be accrued based on the hours worked over the last 12 weeks. If this is the case if I was to have a busy 12 weeks then a quiet 12 weeks, then want to take some holiday, they will work out how many hours I am entitled to based on the most recent 12 weeks- thereby foregoing any holiday which should have accrued over the first 12 weeks. I think they are confusing how to work out how much you get paid for holidays taken and how to work out how many holidays are accrued in the first place.
I feel an email coming
The agency is right, holiday pay is based on a rolling 12 week time period. So if you have a quiet 12 weeks you get paid less than you would if you were busier.
You don’t lose the days you have accrued, your holiday pay just changes and is dependent on the previous 12 weeks from when you start your holiday.
Don’t have a go at your agency, write to your MP and get the law changed if you don’t like it.
And to add to the above, if you have a week when there is no work then they have to go back a further week. So if in the last 12 weeks you had one week with no work they’d have to go back to 13 weeks ago and include that week instead of the one where you earned nothing.
I preferred how a few agencies I worked with did it where they put a set amount per hour into a holiday pot and you just took what you wanted out of it. No getting penalised taking it after a quiet period.
I beg to differ (with Wheelnut). How can the holiday you accrue (ie number of days/hours) be based on a 12 week average?
I agree that holiday PAY is worked out on a 12 week average, but the actual amount of days/hours of that holiday should be based on days/hours actually worked, not as per the email, on an average over the previous 12 weeks.
Can I just emphasise that I’m not talking about holiday pay and how it’s worked out. I know the law on that.
What I’m talking about here is how they work out how many days/hours holiday you are actually entitled to.
For example, if I work 48 hours a week for 12 weeks I would be entitled to 69.5 hours holiday pay ((12x48)x 12.07%= 69.5hrs).
If I then had 12 weeks of 8 hours a week I would be entitled to 11.5 hrs of holiday pay plus 69.5 hrs = 81hrs holiday pay owed.
But if you do it the way they say in the email they will just take the last 12 weeks (8 hrs a week) and work out the entitlement on that, which works out at 10 hours holiday for the year!!
Please someone tell me you can see what I’m on about!
Part of the whole point of working agency is that you’re supposed to be able to work when you feel like it, and take impromptu holidays again, - when you feel like it NOT when the agency decides it can spare you that week.
It’s your labour, and you’ve negotiated the rate at which you’re prepared to work for that agency. Gotta stand firm if you want to extract out of the system the only upsides to be had from zero hours contracts - working when you feel like it, under no pressure to take work you don’t want.
On the subject of “Zero Hours Contracts” - don’t ever let anyone tell you that a “six hour” or “twelve hour” contract is better than a zero hours one. It’s not - because they’ll find you those minimum hours at their convenience rather than yours. I’m a guy that prefers lates and nights for example. If I were on a 12 hour contract at some outfit like ADN - I’d be offered (and obliged to take) a Six hour shift at some supermarket on the other side of the river on monday & friday early starts - and nothing else that week. Maximum amount of my time wasted, minimum hourly rates, AND I’d be obliged to do them to fulfil my “12 hours contract”. f–k that!
I see what you are trying to get at.
I have been having a similar issue with my agency.
I told them I wanted to work 4 day weeks during the quiet period and 5 when busy.
I worked out a formula based on the rules that a worker is entitled to 5.6 times his normal working week i.e. 5.6 x 5(5 day week) = 28 days(which may include bank holidays)
As my weeks varied on the number of days worked I suggested using the same formula throughout the year so that I could keep track of how many days I would accrue.
My local manager accepted my formula and so far all is well although I am expecting an argument later.
A worker working a five day week is entitled to 5.6 times his normal week as his statutory entitlement ie 5 x 5.6 = 28
28 (number of days) divided by 52 (weeks in the year) equals holiday entitlement earned per week. ie 28/52 = .538
.538 days holiday earned per five day week worked. .538 x 52 = 27.9 (28)
A worker working a four day week is entitled to 5.6 times his normal week as his statutory entitlement ie 4 x 5.6 = 22.4 (22)
22 (number of days) divided by 52 (weeks in the year) equals holiday entitlement earned per week. ie 22/52 = .423
.423 days holiday earned per four day week worked. .423 x 52 = 21.99 (22)
A worker working a three day week is entitled to 5.6 times his normal week as his statutory entitlement ie 3 x 5.6 = 16.8 (17)
17 (number of days) divided by 52 (weeks in the year) equals holiday entitlement earned per week. ie 17/52 = .327
.327 days holiday earned per three day week worked. .327 x 52 = 17.00 (17)
A worker working a two day week is entitled to 5.6 times his normal week as his statutory entitlement ie 2 x 5.6 = 11.2 (11)
11 (number of days) divided by 52 (weeks in the year) equals holiday entitlement earned per week. ie 11/52 = .211
.211 days holiday earned per two day week worked. .211 x 52 = 10.97 (11)
using the above I made a spreadsheet to keep track of holidays accrued, it also allowed me to forecast what I was likely to obtain.
An easier way to work out how many days you are entitled to is to multiply the number of days worked by 12.07%.
This equates to the 5.6 weeks minimum allowed by law and is easier to work out for an agency worker who works irregular days per week.
This works if they want to base it on days worked or hours worked. ie for every 100 days/hours worked the worker is entitled to 12.07 days/hours of holiday. ( Paid at average earnings over previous 12 weeks prior to holiday taken, which is where the confusion is coming in).
The problem my agency have is that they have confused how to work out how much an employee gets paid for holidays with how many holidays the employee is entitled to in the first place. At least I hope they are confused, rather than trying to pull a fast one.
cupidstunt:
An easier way to work out how many days you are entitled to is to multiply the number of days worked by 12.07%.
This equates to the 5.6 weeks minimum allowed by law and is easier to work out for an agency worker who works irregular days per week.
This works if they want to base it on days worked or hours worked. ie for every 100 days/hours worked the worker is entitled to 12.07 days/hours of holiday. ( Paid at average earnings over previous 12 weeks prior to holiday taken, which is where the confusion is coming in).
The problem my agency have is that they have confused how to work out how much an employee gets paid for holidays with how many holidays the employee is entitled to in the first place. At least I hope they are confused, rather than trying to pull a fast one.
If they intend to use only the average worked over 12 weeks to calculate your actual days holiday accrued then they have it wrong they should be calculating your days accrued using your actual hours worked, not the average. However that said, it may actually work in your favour. So have a look back over your hours worked and see how that will work out for you using your average hours worked instead of your actual hours worked.
Am with you on this one I work casual with the same agency also they want £2 a working day for uniform this agency is run by drivers for drivers my arse they talk of honesty being different we know how drivers feel and go through same old ■■■■■ of agency spiel
cupidstunt:
An easier way to work out how many days you are entitled to is to multiply the number of days worked by 12.07%.
This equates to the 5.6 weeks minimum allowed by law and is easier to work out for an agency worker who works irregular days per week.
This works if they want to base it on days worked or hours worked. ie for every 100 days/hours worked the worker is entitled to 12.07 days/hours of holiday. ( Paid at average earnings over previous 12 weeks prior to holiday taken, which is where the confusion is coming in).
The problem my agency have is that they have confused how to work out how much an employee gets paid for holidays with how many holidays the employee is entitled to in the first place. At least I hope they are confused, rather than trying to pull a fast one.
Thanks for the above I will now try this figure.
Penny pinching by agencies over our pay
cupidstunt:
It definately wouldn’t work in my favour- I don’t work much!
Besides that I’m pretty sure it’s not even legal what they’ve said they want to do.
It isn’t legal. Holiday accrued is pro rata so has to take actual working hours into account, not the average.
On a separate note, after 12 weeks assignment with a company you are entitled to the same holiday as their regular workers are so if they get more than the statutory holidays, you must get the same.
You are also entitled to the same pay after 12 weeks as if you were directly employed by the company they send you to.
csideyosser:
Am with you on this one I work casual with the same agency also they want £2 a working day for uniform this agency is run by drivers for drivers my arse they talk of honesty being different we know how drivers feel and go through same old [zb] of agency spiel
Hmmm don’t get me started on deductions! They recently started taking out £2 a day worked for something or other, but also started paying expenses, even though I don’t think I’m entitled to anything other than whan I already get through my tax code. The only reason I haven’t bothered doing anything about the spurious deductions/expenses is that I don’t do much and there isn’t much difference in net pay either way. They also wanted to start charging for uniform, a uniform that they want me to wear to advertise their business, but I knocked that on the head.
cupidstunt:
It definately wouldn’t work in my favour- I don’t work much!
Besides that I’m pretty sure it’s not even legal what they’ve said they want to do.
It isn’t legal. Holiday accrued is pro rata so has to take actual working hours into account, not the average.
On a separate note, after 12 weeks assignment with a company you are entitled to the same holiday as their regular workers are so if they get more than the statutory holidays, you must get the same.
You are also entitled to the same pay after 12 weeks as if you were directly employed by the company they send you to.
In my experience the 12 week parity thing is pointless. I was at one place for months and I raised the parity with the agency, they wriggled out of it by saying that to get parity you have to work on the same terms as the perm staff, and as I only worked days and the perm staff worked occasional nights I wasn’t working on the same terms and therefore not entitled to parity pay.
I’m not even sure if what they say is correct but to me it smacks of evasion.
