Agencies and wanting to remain PAYE

I’ve always been on the books of all the companies I’ve driven for, however after being made redundant, I’ve decided to register with agencies. Every single one I have approached has tried pushing me onto an umbrella company payment agreement.

Firstly its not something I have any knowledge of, so can someone provide me with the pros and cons of it.
Secondly they’ve all been giving it the hard-sell which I think might affect me getting any work with them, as I’ve told them I would ask other drivers advice regarding this.

Any help information greatly accepted.

I’m agency and am happy being on PAYE, yes I get a lower rate but I get my holiday pay, my tax is deducted and my NI paid. The agency still try and get me to go self employed, but I’m not interested. They can’t stop me working either as I’ve been on the same placement for 21 months and its not down to them who they put in to drive.

If you not heard it yet go onto radio 5 live website and down load Sunday 21st October investigations podcast . It’s all about the dodgy umbrella companies that these agencies use , it was very interesting .

selby newcomer:
I’m agency and am happy being on PAYE, yes I get a lower rate but I get my holiday pay, my tax is deducted and my NI paid. The agency still try and get me to go self employed, but I’m not interested.

AFAIK that particular agy have done a U turn and recently to get drivers on the books and started signing drivers up on PAYE basis

Cheers, I’m just happy keeping things simple, although obviously I’m aware there is an incentive for the people working at the Agencies to get me signed up onto this umbrella option, just a bit fed up with the hard sell tactics they try to apply.

Thanks

garp:
If you not heard it yet go onto radio 5 live website and down load Sunday 21st October investigations podcast . It’s all about the dodgy umbrella companies that these agencies use , it was very interesting .

I’ve just listened to it and it is interesting, well worth listening to.

If anyone’s interested in listening to the podcast it can be downloaded from this page

Alternatively here’s a direct download

The file which is 22.6 MM is in MP3 format which will play in windows media player or your favourite media player.

Me too here’s a link bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngnky

Crikey frightening stuff,I’m glad I’ve stood my ground and refused to sign up to any.

You know it will only be a matter of time before hmrc look into this in a big way , maybe not this year or next but they will and probably go back years and I hope they do because the hourly rate might go up along with a lot of these bloody agencies going to the wall .

garp:
You know it will only be a matter of time before hmrc look into this in a big way , maybe not this year or next but they will and probably go back years and I hope they do because the hourly rate might go up along with a lot of these bloody agencies going to the wall .

The Agencies and Payroll Umbrella Companies appear to have a nice little sideline earner going with these schemes, its only a matter of time before hmrc start knocking on doors asking for there money, the poor old agency worker will end up being left hanging out to dry, with the added misery of paying any outstanding money owed to Hmrc.

just listened to it …very interesting …and confirmed my exteme preducice for agencies

If anyone tries to make something simple sound complicated, then you can bet you are being palmed off with something that’s not for your benefit somewhere along the way.

I signed up with 9 agencies last year, and have been booted off some of them because I won’t work anything other than PAYE.

Seems crazy really doesn’t it?

“Hey boss, I don’t want to evade tax which would be illegal, and I don’t want to pay some third party to try to evade it on my behalf either. I’d just like us all to be honest in this august business.”

Boss: “Here’s your p45”

:angry: :angry: :angry:

6 out of the 9 agencies I signed up with never gave me a SINGLE assignment, despite me signing up during the “busy buildup” time of November.
I put that lack of work more down to “not being prepared to do umbrella” than not being qualified/experienced/available enough in other ways.
FFS Nights & weekends are my thing, and I still get diddly squat from these shysters!

I imagine the big signees to umbrella are the 9 points brigade, or those who can’t work out or read on this board that umbrella is all a big fiddle twice over.
You pay a commission, and they’ll give you a tax rebate you’re not entitled to to justify the expense. Then, after the end of the tax year, you have to pay it back to HMRC when they decide you were not actually eligible to get such unreceipted offsets.
If you don’t work in at least 3 seperate locations per year, you’ll be paying back all the mileage claimed as well!
Odd, when the first thing the umbrella pushers like to say to you is “We can guarantee you 40 hours per week once you sign up”.
(Driverhire, TRG for example depending upon which side of the river you are!)

Yeh, 40 hours on the shifts you don’t want, and the place you don’t want, doing the job you don’t want. In my case, I was offered monday-friday 6am starts 8 hours a day at a certain depot quite near the dartford tolls… I wasted a day going through the application process only to find out it was all this big con designed to palm people off with the less desirable work. Does anyone else commute umpteen miles for less than £10ph for a flat shift, and a pay-per-payslip plan that encourages you to work multiple short shifts thus losing you the greatest amount in overheads… Garrrghh! :imp:
I turned up because they were keen that I was “willing to work nights and weekends” (for which they touted rates like £14ph) on that basis - so I thought.
Of course, the plummy hourly rates are not available - unless you’ve put in your 40 hours monday-friday FIRST. Essentially, it’s overtime for the boys and NOT for those who pick and mix shifts which is what agency work is supposed to be about from the driver’s point of view - not just mine! :angry:

I’m quite happy sticking with SMS Mainstream now, as essentially they do what it says on the tin, which is all any of us should want from an agency.
Holiday pay, No fancy differing hourly rates at different times of the day, and the same rate all the way through.
PAYE as standard, with mileage and meal allowance offsets submittable each and every week.
Essentially, you get everything that an umbrella firm charges £27 per payslip for - but all for free, complete with holiday pay that is NOT built up by a deduction from your gross wages. Getting this alone is worth a lot more than an extra pound an hour that seems to be commonplace among the umbrella brigade. For someone like me, who wants to work loads of odd shifts rather than weeks and weeks at the same place, not paying per payslip is an absolute MUST.

For the equivalent of SMS in other areas beyond kent, I suggest looking for whoever supplies mainstream with drivers to the big boys.
I know they are eager to get some 17t daytime drivers on the books for the food deliveries, as I’m guessing there are just not enough younger fitter drivers around these parts to fill the demand!

peirre:

selby newcomer:
I’m agency and am happy being on PAYE, yes I get a lower rate but I get my holiday pay, my tax is deducted and my NI paid. The agency still try and get me to go self employed, but I’m not interested.

AFAIK that particular agy have done a U turn and recently to get drivers on the books and started signing drivers up on PAYE basis

yep, they are struggling to get drivers at the mo and getting pressure from the client, we’ve had a few lads on holiday and they struggled to get drivers in to cover. I remember what you said about them before and I’m not that impressed with them in all honesty. just glad I don’t have to deal with them that often as I’m always on the same placement, only have to send a text on a Friday to confirm shifts for following week.

6 out of the 9 agencies I signed up with never gave me a SINGLE assignment, despite me signing up during the “busy buildup” time of November.
I put that lack of work more down to “not being prepared to do umbrella” than not being qualified/experienced/available enough in other ways.
FFS Nights & weekends are my thing, and I still get diddly squat from these shysters!

This is all looking a bit gloomy for me then, I’ve registered with 2 Agencies so far as a Class 1 Driver, they both tried the we’re doing you favor saving you money,lets baffle him with an over complicated sales patter and get him to agree to this umbrella payment scheme.

I frankly laughed out loud at this point, after being handed about 12 sheets of A4 umbrella contract agreement to sign, the atmosphere and the attitude of the recruiters in the room changed immediately on both occasions, I sensed there would be further implications if I didn’t agree, which has actually been the case, no work so far.

Which is strange? because I asked before spending a morning registering with them, could I start this week, to which they replied, sure we’re crying out for drivers, we’ll start you tomorrow you can work the weekend. I waited for the phone call to confirm my start times it never came, I called them before they closed the office, oh yes we’re waiting for security, references to come back, it called take a while.

I asked, why did you say that you’d start me tomorrow then? The reply, the client requires your security clearance.
I asked "the longing standing client that you have been supplying with drivers for ages, has never mentioned this before to you? It slipped your mind when registering me?

Silence from the other end of there phone.

Looks like I won’t be driving anytime soon.

selby newcomer:
only have to send a text on a Friday to confirm shifts for following week.

your lucky, elsewhere they`ve instigated the DX (driver exchange) where the client (clerk) logs you onto the system (to start your shift (like a stopwatch) upon your arrival at the office. Then at the end of the shift your logged off the DX and the clock is stopped. Which means your paid exactly to the minute, ie: 12hrs and 36minute (minus 0:45hr) = 11hrs and 46minute.
Calculating the income for that shift then goes into another universe.
The DX is supposed to simplify cliet/agy/driver intergation. The driver can go online, check the start times and any amendments, confirm hours worked etc

Driver Exchange — The DX

Dear Colleague,

From Sunday 14/10/12 **** and ************ will be operating a new process to record your hours of work at *******. The system that is being used is called the Driver Exchange or The DX.

Currently you record your hours worked each week when you sign in & out of the transport office. You then supply Milestone with a weekly timesheet.

From Sunday your start & finish times will be activated on the new system by the transport staff on your arrival and departure from site, creating an electronic timesheet.

All you have to do is report to transport for your allocated start time and inform the clerk you are there. They will then start a stop clock which will run until you are informed you shift has ended. At this point, and after your shift debrief the clerk will then stop the clock. You should check with the clerk that they have started and stopped the clock at the right time, and ask them to adjust it if not. You will then be paid on a minute by minute basis and not on the quarter of the hour as before.

Over the next few weeks we will give you a username and password and you will be able to access the Driver Exchange by going to ************.co.uk and logging in. You will be able to view the hours you have worked on a daily & weekly basis and will also be able to see your own information on the system. After you have logged on for the first time, the Driver Exchange will send you real time notifications of the shifts that you have been planned to work and your start and finish times.

NIGHTS OUT - IMPORTANT

If your shift should run into a night out you must call the transport office to inform them of your shift finish time so Transport can stop your shift clock and put you on rest. You must ring in again when you have completed your rest and inform them of your next start time which will be added to the system. When you arrive back at the site and your shift has ended you should report to the traffic desk as normal but must inform the clerk of your night out, parking / other expenses so they can add them to the system there and then. This is your responsibility to make sure that this happens at that time.

Over the next few months, the Driver Exchange tool will be developed to offer you further services and greater access to your timesheet data.

Can you imagine the confusion of someone who isnt computer literate! No wonder they cant keep drivers, never mind recruit new ones

jeez, it seems we have got it pretty good where we are then. we don’t have to sign in or clock in or anything. we don’t even have to fill in a weekly time sheet, we do a daily timesheets for the client and that’s it, I keep a photocopy to make sure my hours are right each week.

Like I said, if it’s complicated, there’s a fiddle involved.

Perhaps the very act of looking for PAYE only will be the way to establish which agencies are worth signing up for, and which are not.

Even Manpower with their RM contract do NOT have it on “umbrella/self-employed”, since RM themselves don’t employ Self-Employed drivers.

Manpower themselves have been no good to me though, since I’m not eligable yet to work at RM, and it seems they don’t have any other work except chaffering debt collectors about, & HIAB work. :open_mouth: I even got an overstay parking ticket on the day I signed up with them 18 months back, and have yet to receive a single shift (they are one of the 6 I previously mentioned).

There can’t be many sign-ups that actually LOST net money on the year can there? :frowning: :angry:

Even if you get a driver that says “Yes, I’m quite happy to donk £27 a week paying you to give me work”, then you’ve still got the issue that to make it actually PAY you’ve got to take ALL THE HOURS THEY GIVE YOU. This means 5x8 hours per week on supermarket earlies if doing C+E. :frowning:
What about weekend work? - Sorry bud, perhaps if you put in your 40 hours at crap rates first… “What about working when I choose - I didn’t want a full time job or I wouldn’t have come here!” - Sorry bud, there’s plenty of others out there - only we won’t actually tell you that, just keep you hanging on by the phone for the call that never seems to come… Except to cancel of course!"

If I ever sign up with another agency, it will be “PAYE?” to which I might as well be asking “Going to be fair and square?”

No paye, no fair. If you don’t resist the fiddles, you’ll be fiddled, and have no one else to blame but yourself.

BBC staff use umbrella extensively to avoid paying taxes, BUT I would imagine they are all on more than the £18ph that I’d previously said is the minimum hourly rate you need to make it pay for casual hours (single shifts and up).

selby newcomer:
I’m agency and am happy being on PAYE, yes I get a lower rate but I get my holiday pay, my tax is deducted and my NI paid. The agency still try and get me to go self employed, but I’m not interested. They can’t stop me working either as I’ve been on the same placement for 21 months and its not down to them who they put in to drive.

Are you aware of the new agency workers rights laws? If you’ve been there for that long then you now should be on the same pay and terms as the company permanent drivers unless the agency is using the Swedish Derogation.

ALl the swedish derogation does is makes sure no one is on more than a 13 week rolling contract.
One contract ends, and you get moved to another client to start another 13 weeks. That way, the “equal pay” never gets realised.

I’d go as far to say that the old days of agencies getting paid a finders fee for setting up a full timer with a full time job are now gone for good because of this easy-to-circumvent law that has actually destroyed full time jobs outright in this country.

I have yet to see a proper job be advertised in this area for over a year now. It’s all trampers, adr, 13 week agency contracts, and poorly-paid multidrop work.

Whatever happened to 4x12 hour shifts per week for a proper wage that pays the mortgage AND puts food on the table? (£600-£800pw gross) :frowning:

You shouldn’t have to be a divorcee/IVA server/Bankrupt/maintenence payer for a “full time job” to appeal to you these days.

Save your marriage before you save that next debt repayment is what I’m saying.

This will be an interesting experiment then, I have over 10 years check-able accident/incident points free free class 1 experience with a well known logistics group, have said, I’m available for working everything that’s going shift-wise. So the only thing that would prevent getting any work theoretically , might be my refusal not to go on an umbrella scheme.

I’ll keep you informed

Conor:

selby newcomer:
I’m agency and am happy being on PAYE, yes I get a lower rate but I get my holiday pay, my tax is deducted and my NI paid. The agency still try and get me to go self employed, but I’m not interested. They can’t stop me working either as I’ve been on the same placement for 21 months and its not down to them who they put in to drive.

Are you aware of the new agency workers rights laws? If you’ve been there for that long then you now should be on the same pay and terms as the company permanent drivers unless the agency is using the Swedish Derogation.

Yeah was aware of that, all the agency done was get us to sign employment contracts with them and only guaranteed us 15 hours pay a week if they had no work