After some advice... ...and also a different point of veiw

[rpmmatt]

Hi,
This is my first post but have been reading stuff here for years.(sorry for the length of this)

Recent events have driven me to post, as I am after advice of people who may have, or know people who have been in this situation

OK, so I am an ordinary guy, working for an ordinary distribution firm, doing an ordinary days work. I was heading back towards the yard when BANG. The windscreen shatters, there are cars flying everywhere and all I can hear is the bang bang bang of more and more cars being hit my truck. I come to a stop and realise that I have been involved in a massive collision and I ended up being arrested for dangerous driving. Thankfully no one died, but all the same, I was charged with a very serious offence. All I could think of the time was that driver that killed the whole family, and I thought I must have killed 20 people, but that is just shock for you, every worst thought flashes through your mind and its almost impossible to think straight.

This was some months ago, and over the last little while I have been struggling to deal with what happened, and coming to terms with an accident that may or may not have been my fault I still remember nothing prior to the accident, and was not driving tired, and i was well within tacho rules had a well maintained truck and so on, all the same for some reason i didnt slow down when I saw a queue.

After getting good legal advice(fortunately paid for by work) and reviewing the statements, it seems I am stuffed. I am soon likely to find my self facing a prison term of up to year, so this puts me in a curious position. I have since lost the energy to be angry, angry at the system, angry at myself and am now just resigned to the fact my life seems to be in tatters.

So, right now, all I can see in front of me is prison slamming shut and I can see no way forwards with life. I have no intention of returning to life on the road,(I did go back to work after the accident, but stress made me make some bad decisions and my attitude got me sacked). How do I go about looking past what is happening, and sort out picking my life up, not sure how i could cope with going to prison for any length of time, I’m not exactly a chav smack addict so I dont have much in common with your average prisoner.

A final point, having an accident like this is perhaps the worst thing that can happen to professional driver. For simple getting up and going to work, I now face having no job, no money, and no freedom. Seeing things from this side has really opened my eyes, never again will I be in the “lock em up and through the key” brigade unless i know every fact. This can happen to any of us, and was very fortunate no one died, or else I would be in even worse trouble.

^^Discuss^^

Seriously, if anyone has suitable advice to give, I am not after sympathy or absolution, or asking to be let off for something I may have caused, just want help seeing that there may be something on the other side of all this, cause if there is i can’t see it.

I might keep you updated with what happens if your interested, but obviously, i cant state specifics, thanks for reading.

[brit_pete]

what can one say ,There but for the grace of god ,it can happen
to any of us, I do have a question did they send you away for medical checks
over here in Germany the Sekundenschlaf (momentary nodding off, microsleep )
HAS BEEN FOUND to be a major factor in many accidents, you could have problems
and need to be checked ,as for advice ,try looking on the net for any information
about this type of accident it may help you in the trial,if as you say you are faceing a term behind the wall, have you looked on the net for places that may be able to help you,it will not be nice and is something that no one who has not been there
can ever understand and so i am sorry i can,t help you there, only to say
try to remain the person you were before the doors closed,(if they do)
all the best ,

[buycrider]

rpmmatt, that is sound advice that britpete has given you. It would appear, from what you have said about the build-up to you realising that you were involved in an accident, that your concentration may have lapsed, for as Pete said, a micro-second. That is all that it takes, for disaster to strike. Pete is suggesting that you get tested for sleep apnoea. You may have had all of your legal rests, and breaks;but you would not be aware that you had been waking up regularly during what you thought was a deep sleep. You may already have been tested for it. If not, get your legal team on the case.
Insofar as the future is concerned there are many on this site who will know that, as pete said " There but for the grace of God, go I". Whatever you think now, and as black as it all looks, I can tell you, from personal experience, that it will all come right in the end.You did not kill anyone. You will live through this. Stick with it. Rely on your legal team to put your case to your best possible advantage.Best Wishes for both the immediate, and long term future. Good Luck.

[dieseldog6]

Why do you think you will go to prison? if no one was killed.

[gezt]

As said in above posts , we have all been that close so don’t judge yourself to harshly. of course you will get the "i never would/could do that brigade) but in all honesty i in my 36 years on the road could not say hand on heart that i have never been near that situation myself. as prev advice get a medical check for sleep apnoea because if you don’t then you may be found guilty of an offence which was not your fault and secondly if you do suffer from that or other infliction you may not want to drive again for safety reasons.
good luck with all the results and court case.
obviously you feel guilty but remember in this country you are innocent till proved guilty and many more people who have caused more serious damage (i.e politicians/bankers etc) get off scot free without any qualms.

[rog]

Hi rpmmatt

rpmmatt:
This was some months ago, and over the last little while I have been struggling to deal with what happened, and coming to terms with an accident that may or may not have been my fault I still remember nothing prior to the accident, and was not driving tired, and i was well within tacho rules had a well maintained truck and so on, all the same for some reason i didnt slow down when I saw a queue.

rpmmatt:
I was heading back towards the yard when BANG.

A thought - ‘daydreaming’ or ‘letting the mind wonder’ can last for seconds or minutes and is a human condition to which many of us are prone to at times.
Usually, when driving, we tend not to do it but I’ve noticed times when looking at the TV and find that I’ve missed a couple of minutes due to letting my mind drift off to somewhere else…

[manowar]

Sorry to hear of your situation.

I can sympathise. I dont run bent or drive when tired but sometimes during a really hectic day, I make mistakes due to lapses of concentration now and again. They’re nearly always minor and amount to nothing, maybe inconveniencing another driver slightly, but when I notice my fault I do wonder to myself just how different the situation could have been if, for example, there was a motorcycle in a certain position that I didn’t see, or the person in front suddenly stood on their brakes.

Your situation could happen to the best of drivers out there including highly trained and police driver. Even if it is a medical condition relating to micro sleep, it can affect a person without them being aware of it.

These accidents also happen with people driving cars but due to the physics involved, cause less damage and chaos overall. Being in a lorry, it can make things many times worse which unfortunately can make the penalties worse, despite the fact that you didn’t do it intentionally. If an accountant makes a small mistake, people lose money, the proverbial hits the fan and there’ll be hell to pay, at worst, a job will be lost. If an air traffic controller makes a small mistake, hundreds of people could be killed and the life of the controller would be ruined, along with many others. I guess that your case is somewhere in the middle. It doesn’t seem right that you should go inside for it - that would be an appropriate sentence for somebody who caused a crash by running bent.

At least nobody was killed. I don’t know if I’d cope if I killed someone.

[gezt]

ROG:
Hi rpmmatt

rpmmatt:
This was some months ago, and over the last little while I have been struggling to deal with what happened, and coming to terms with an accident that may or may not have been my fault I still remember nothing prior to the accident, and was not driving tired, and i was well within tacho rules had a well maintained truck and so on, all the same for some reason i didnt slow down when I saw a queue.

rpmmatt:
I was heading back towards the yard when BANG.

A thought - ‘daydreaming’ or ‘letting the mind wonder’ can last for seconds or minutes and is a human condition to which many of us are prone to at times.
Usually, when driving, we tend not to do it but I’ve noticed times when looking at the TV and find that I’ve missed a couple of minutes due to letting my mind drift off to somewhere else…

Usually, when driving, we tend not to do it but I’ve noticed times when looking at the TV and find that I’ve missed a couple of minutes due to letting my mind drift off to somewhere else…
[/quote]
no rog having met you i can state that its called a “senior moment”

[c-kay]

ROG:
Hi rpmmatt

rpmmatt:
This was some months ago, and over the last little while I have been struggling to deal with what happened, and coming to terms with an accident that may or may not have been my fault I still remember nothing prior to the accident, and was not driving tired, and i was well within tacho rules had a well maintained truck and so on, all the same for some reason i didnt slow down when I saw a queue.

rpmmatt:
I was heading back towards the yard when BANG.

A thought - ‘daydreaming’ or ‘letting the mind wonder’ can last for seconds or minutes and is a human condition to which many of us are prone to at times.
Usually, when driving, we tend not to do it but I’ve noticed times when looking at the TV and find that I’ve missed a couple of minutes due to letting my mind drift off to somewhere else…

I’ve done that myself a couple of times, i did it last week in fact. Driving down the A12 and all of a sudden thought that i couldn’t remember passing the flower van that’s on the Ipswich bound side, and i was actually further up the A12 than i thought

I dare say everyone does it, and is the cause of a lot of accidents that happen, but as already said, no-one was seriously injured, no-one was killed. My best friend was killed by a driver who pulled out on him without looking and he only got banned and a fine , so if you go to prison for this i would be suprised.

[berewic]

ROG:
Hi rpmmatt

rpmmatt:
This was some months ago, and over the last little while I have been struggling to deal with what happened, and coming to terms with an accident that may or may not have been my fault I still remember nothing prior to the accident, and was not driving tired, and i was well within tacho rules had a well maintained truck and so on, all the same for some reason i didnt slow down when I saw a queue.

rpmmatt:
I was heading back towards the yard when BANG.

A thought - ‘daydreaming’ or ‘letting the mind wonder’ can last for seconds or minutes and is a human condition to which many of us are prone to at times.
Usually, when driving, we tend not to do it but I’ve noticed times when looking at the TV and find that I’ve missed a couple of minutes due to letting my mind drift off to somewhere else…

They must have better TV round your way then ROG. Where I live, my mind drifts off for several hours.

[gazzah]

Hello RPM,
I know what your going through although my situation didnt involve an accident but something else (rather not say) and it affected me for a long time.I could’nt go anywhere for fear of something happening and sometimes it got the better of me, and I made hundred and one excuses not to go to work.Luckily not losing my job at the time.
I tried everything counselling etc etc.Then one day i decided to face my fears and i got back in the lorry and thought to myself what will be will be.I still look back and wondered how I did it. I personally feel for you mate and hope that it all turns out good and I agree with alot of people on here get yourself checked out and i dont think you’ll end up in prison

[scottishcruiser]

If charged with dangerous driving isnt this just a ban and big fine? Im saying this because some years ago I was done for a DD40 and got a year ban and £500 fine. Theoritically speaking all dangerous driving are the same■■? I would seriously looking into a poss sleep apnea as suggested as this could save your bacon if proved legit although your licence will be revoked for medical reasons.

Although a simple google search brings this up:-

Dangerous DrivingTitle: Road traffic offences

Offence: Dangerous driving

Legislation: Road Traffic Act 1988 s.2

Commencement Date:

Mode of Trial: Triable either way

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty:

On indictment - 2 years imprisonment or a fine or both
Summary conviction - imprisonment not exceeding 6 months, or a fine, or both
Disqualification minimum 12 months
Obligatory endorsement
Mandatory disqualification until passes extended driving test
Sentencing Range: Non custodial options may be considered, but usually a custodial penalty is appropriate, especially where a number of aggravating factors combine

For dangerous driving, the maximum prison term a court is allowed to prescribe is two years, while it can hand out an unlimited fine, a disqualification and penalty points.

[paul261267]

scottishcruiser:
I would seriously looking into a poss sleep apnea as suggested as this could save your bacon if proved legit although your licence will be revoked for medical reasons.

[/quote]
As for revocation of a licence in these circumstances. I’m sure I read somewhere that an HGV driver was able to keep his job and licence as the condition was diagnosed and treated via oxygen bottles to help him sleep normally. I can’t remember where I read it now though so don’t quote me on it. I’d speak to your legal team regarding this possibility as other posters have suggested.

Not that I am suggesting you could have any kind of disorder but nevertheless a medical examination for any sleep related illness is warranted here?

Good luck, incidents such as this can happen to any one of us…

[rpmmatt]

Thanks for some for some of these reply’s guys. Not thought of the sleep disorder angle, but, I did have medical before I went back to work, that was for heart and diabetes and stuff, but not sleep. Though to be honest, I don’t think it would help me much.

As for sentencing, well, I used to think a ban and big fine, but from what I’ve been told its a bit like this:

Due to the nature of this accident -a motorway pile up- people quite often get killed. Now, although no one was killed in this case the court looks at it as what COULD of happened as well as what DID happen.

The test for careless driving is driving that falls below the accepted standard.

For dangerous its driving that fall FAR below the standard.

For an HGV driver, who is better trained and can do more damage, they always try to bump it up for dangerous.

So, due to the circumstances of this accident, and the lack of explanation as to why I didn’t slow down, means I can go to prison quite easily.

A strange feeling really, I have never felt so powerless in my life. I lack a time machine, so cant change to accident, and my fate is now in the hands of strangers that I may be unable to influence. Talk about your life in someone elses hands. What really galling, both the injured drivers in my crash were driving unroadworthy vehicles!! I mean, nothing at all will happen to them, but imagine if my wagon had a bald tyre, I would get cruicified.

Agree with one thing though, I cant imagine how I would feel if I had killed someone. I’ve lost all interest in driving a truck ever again, cant imagine what I would feel if it was worse. Trouble is, this is happening all the time to drivers, I wouldnt wish it on anyone, its absolutly awful going through this.

[duracell]

A very brave post RPM, the fact you only remember the impact and not the circumstances, that caused the accident,makes me agree with others that this could be a medical problem, you state you have been tested for heart, diabeties, but not sleep problems, I would also advise you have tests for respitory problems as I am sure I read of a case of a driver who had a coughing fit and mometoraly lost conciousness, who was cleared of dangerous driving, but did lose his driving licence’s for medical reasons.
Thankfully no one was killed, but it is apparrent your life has been shattered, I wish you luck in the trial and hope you keep your libertey, as you said yourself, it has changed your opinion on the lock em up brigade.
That said, those who drive bent, at inappropiate speeds such as the copper sentanced today, I can have no sympathy for.

[silver_surfer]

I’d be surprised if they send you to prison although that is possible. The trial will be very, very, nerve wracking so be prepared. Take the chance to speak and show your remorse.

I presume you have a good solicitor so listen to them.

When you’re at your lowest ebb, try and remember life can get better in the future, don’t give up hope.

[limeyphil]

You will get 3 square meals a day. but the powdered egg is’nt too nice.

stay lucky.

[happy_keith]

rpmmatt:
‘…I wouldnt wish it on anyone … its absolutely awful going through this…’

Not everyone would cope with it, rpmmatt, but it appears that somehow you are - and full credit to ya. I shake your hand in teaching me stuff in your few short sentences & what they’ve evoked from others that no bigger man ever could.
Any buffoon can see that the pokey isn’t the place for you yet these are surely heavy days - & God willing you’ll continue to mend from the ghastly grip of the horrid experience…

[chilistrucker]

very sorry too hear this mate.
proof, that we all work in an industry, that means, that whilst doing your job, you could end up going too jail

like others have said, it could happen too any of us, if we just lapse concentration for a split second.
i would make sure you stand up and have your say in court, express your remorse, (which is clear from your posts so far) and the affect its had on you since that day, and will have forever.
don’t know what your previous driving/accident record is like, but if its good, i’m sure its worth pointing this out, although i’m sure legal team, are on the ball, perhaps your boss, could go, and speak in your defence, just ideas mate.

be amazed, if it came too a jail sentence, i mean, if an illegal immigrant from somalia, who was a known peadophile, got away with claiming 35 quid a week benefit, until he got rumbled, and then deported, then surely, there is a better way of dealing with this, than improsining, a seemingly, honest, hard working, truck driver, that made an error, on that day.
good luck.

[disgo]

A brave post.
We have all been close to something like this driving 60,000 miles plus a year for ■■? years.I actually had a tear in my I eyes reading it and I feel or you.it could have bee n me.
Let’s hope the righteous brigade that post on here don’t jump on you ,they forget it could be them next week.
Stay on the forum for support and let us know how you get on pal.