Hello guys
Quick wuestion.
I have no adr, but have been told to pick up 1.5ton of paint in cans that’s class 3 hazardous.
do I need ADR to transport this?
Never do much of it, and have often been under the impression if it was under a ton I could? ( not that I’ve ever had to)
This being 500kg over has got me wondering.
Thanks!
diesel dave is your man but isn’t it under limited quantities?
If you’ve never had any dangerous goods training then you’re perfectly entitled to refuse. You don’t need an adr for ltd qty, but you have to have adr awareness training, which can be a stand alone course, or an expired adr licence. The fact you’re asking the question suggests neither applies.
This is my biggest bug bare with the revised adr regs, non haz drivers carrying lq loads. In theory, a non haz driver can carry 30,000 litres of petrol, with no training, ppe or vehicle equipment, if it’s loaded in lq receptacles. Yet one single 5 ltr drum, if not an eq load, needs full adr, ppe and vehicle equipment. Totally stupid
If they’re just cans then they wouldn’t be limited quantity goods as they’re not packaged into cartons or trays, so that would be a full ADR load.
Even if they are limited quantity, you would still need some basic training as Ovlov said above.
OVLOV JAY:
If you’ve never had any dangerous goods training then you’re perfectly entitled to refuse. You don’t need an adr for ltd qty, but you have to have adr awareness training, which can be a stand alone course, or an expired adr licence. The fact you’re asking the question suggests neither applies.This is my biggest bug bare with the revised adr regs, non haz drivers carrying lq loads. In theory, a non haz driver can carry 30,000 litres of petrol, with no training, ppe or vehicle equipment, if it’s loaded in lq receptacles. Yet one single 5 ltr drum, if not an eq load, needs full adr, ppe and vehicle equipment. Totally stupid
Sorry Ovlov you could never carry 30,000 litres of petrol under ltd quantities, the most would be 333L if packages are 1l or less.
With regards to the paint though, without knowing the details of the product it’s hard to say whether you could carry it under ltd q or not, but Ovlov is right ADR awareness training is necessary so I would say don’t do it.
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
If you’ve never had any dangerous goods training then you’re perfectly entitled to refuse. You don’t need an adr for ltd qty, but you have to have adr awareness training, which can be a stand alone course, or an expired adr licence. The fact you’re asking the question suggests neither applies.This is my biggest bug bare with the revised adr regs, non haz drivers carrying lq loads. In theory, a non haz driver can carry 30,000 litres of petrol, with no training, ppe or vehicle equipment, if it’s loaded in lq receptacles. Yet one single 5 ltr drum, if not an eq load, needs full adr, ppe and vehicle equipment. Totally stupid
Sorry Ovlov you could never carry 30,000 litres of petrol under ltd quantities, the most would be 333L if packages are 1l or less.
With regards to the paint though, without knowing the details of the product it’s hard to say whether you could carry it under ltd q or not, but Ovlov is right ADR awareness training is necessary so I would say don’t do it.
The 333 rule is for adr exemptions. Receptacles up to 1 litre come under adr in limited quantities. So 30,000 litre bottles is an lq load. Just adr awareness and a 2kg extinguisher required
OVLOV JAY:
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
If you’ve never had any dangerous goods training then you’re perfectly entitled to refuse. You don’t need an adr for ltd qty, but you have to have adr awareness training, which can be a stand alone course, or an expired adr licence. The fact you’re asking the question suggests neither applies.This is my biggest bug bare with the revised adr regs, non haz drivers carrying lq loads. In theory, a non haz driver can carry 30,000 litres of petrol, with no training, ppe or vehicle equipment, if it’s loaded in lq receptacles. Yet one single 5 ltr drum, if not an eq load, needs full adr, ppe and vehicle equipment. Totally stupid
Sorry Ovlov you could never carry 30,000 litres of petrol under ltd quantities, the most would be 333L if packages are 1l or less.
With regards to the paint though, without knowing the details of the product it’s hard to say whether you could carry it under ltd q or not, but Ovlov is right ADR awareness training is necessary so I would say don’t do it.The 333 rule is for adr exemptions. Receptacles up to 1 litre come under adr in limited quantities. So 30,000 litre bottles is an lq load. Just adr awareness and a 2kg extinguisher required
Sorry but that’s wrong. Petrol is transport category 2, which means there is a maximum load threshold of 333 litres or 333kg of a product before full ADR rules apply. I think you are getting confused with excepted quantities but even then depending on the product the limit is 1000 packages, maybe less.
I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but can you put a link up to the restriction? There’s nothing on the unece or hse site, that I can find anyway
Sorry but that’s wrong. Petrol is transport category 2, which means there is a maximum load threshold of 333 litres or 333kg of a product before full ADR rules apply. I think you are getting confused with excepted quantities but even then depending on the product the limit is 1000 packages, maybe less.
Ovlov Jay is absolutely right, it’s possible to take an unlimited load of limited quantity goods (up to the payload of the vehicle, obviously). The 333ltr limit you’ve mentioned would be for packaged goods about the limited quantity provisions, but which gives a partial relaxation of some of the ADR requirements (usually called the “ADR Load Limits”). Two totally different things.
Excepted quantities is something completely different again, for shipping small sample sized amounts (30ml sample bottles for the petrol mentioned), though you’re quite right with the maximum 1000 package load for these.
OVLOV JAY:
I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but can you put a link up to the restriction? There’s nothing on the unece or hse site, that I can find anyway
Hi Olav,
ADR 1.1.3.6.3 Gives the total amount of goods under any particular transport category that can be carried per transport unit before full ADR applies. It does not specify the size of any package just the total per transport unit(vehicle). The trouble is that under ADR 3.4 limited quantities it only refers to this in ADR 3.4.1 which says 'Limited quantities of dangerous goods packed in such quantities, meeting the provisions of this chapter are not subject to any provisions of ADR except the relevant provisions of:
(a) Chapters 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1.8,1.9.
Therefore see chapter 1.1.3.6.3 (which is part of chapter 1.1 listed above in ADR 3.4.1 Limited quantities)
To clarify this if you look at further exemptions under ADR1.1.3.1 for example, which refers to transport for domestic use, this specifies a maximum package size of 60L or total of 240L per vehicle. This exemption would be irrelevant, and therefore not be required, if you could carry let’s say carry one 333l package for example, which is what is being implied with the exemption per transport category, so therefor both rules ADR 3.4 and ADR 1.1.3.6.3 must apply
Therefore you have to apply both rules, no single receptacle can be over the limited quantities size and also the total amount per transport unit (for example TC 2) is 333L or KG. I can see that they are confusing though.
As the driver its not up to you to know wot you can and cant carry, that responsibility resides with your boss. crack on 
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but can you put a link up to the restriction? There’s nothing on the unece or hse site, that I can find anywayHi Olav,
ADR 1.1.3.6.3 Gives the total amount of goods under any particular transport category that can be carried per transport unit before full ADR applies. It does not specify the size of any package just the total per transport unit(vehicle). The trouble is that under ADR 3.4 limited quantities it only refers to this in ADR 3.4.1 which says 'Limited quantities of dangerous goods packed in such quantities, meeting the provisions of this chapter are not subject to any provisions of ADR except the relevant provisions of:
(a) Chapters 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1.8,1.9.
Therefore see chapter 1.1.3.6.3 (which is part of chapter 1.1 listed above in ADR 3.4.1 Limited quantities)To clarify this if you look at further exemptions under ADR1.1.3.1 for example, which refers to transport for domestic use, this specifies a maximum package size of 60L or total of 240L per vehicle. This exemption would be irrelevant, and therefore not be required, if you could carry let’s say carry one 333l package for example, which is what is being implied with the exemption per transport category, so therefor both rules ADR 3.4 and ADR 1.1.3.6.3 must apply
Therefore you have to apply both rules, no single receptacle can be over the limited quantities size and also the total amount per transport unit (for example TC 2) is 333L or KG. I can see that they are confusing though.
Seems like you’re confusing the small load exemptions, which are outside of adr (333l pg2 and 1000l pg3) with with limited quantities, which comes under adr scope, but in the current regulations, doesn’t require the driver to have an adr certificate, just awareness training. All the quantities and rule numbers you quoted were for the small load table
OVLOV JAY:
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but can you put a link up to the restriction? There’s nothing on the unece or hse site, that I can find anywayHi Olav,
ADR 1.1.3.6.3 Gives the total amount of goods under any particular transport category that can be carried per transport unit before full ADR applies. It does not specify the size of any package just the total per transport unit(vehicle). The trouble is that under ADR 3.4 limited quantities it only refers to this in ADR 3.4.1 which says 'Limited quantities of dangerous goods packed in such quantities, meeting the provisions of this chapter are not subject to any provisions of ADR except the relevant provisions of:
(a) Chapters 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1.8,1.9.
Therefore see chapter 1.1.3.6.3 (which is part of chapter 1.1 listed above in ADR 3.4.1 Limited quantities)To clarify this if you look at further exemptions under ADR1.1.3.1 for example, which refers to transport for domestic use, this specifies a maximum package size of 60L or total of 240L per vehicle. This exemption would be irrelevant, and therefore not be required, if you could carry let’s say carry one 333l package for example, which is what is being implied with the exemption per transport category, so therefor both rules ADR 3.4 and ADR 1.1.3.6.3 must apply
Therefore you have to apply both rules, no single receptacle can be over the limited quantities size and also the total amount per transport unit (for example TC 2) is 333L or KG. I can see that they are confusing though.
Seems like you’re confusing the small load exemptions, which are outside of adr (333l pg2 and 1000l pg3) with with limited quantities, which comes under adr scope, but in the current regulations, doesn’t require the driver to have an adr certificate, just awareness training. All the quantities and rule numbers you quoted were for the small load table
Sorry I know I put a lot in there.
Ok to summize under ADR 3.4 (Limited quantities) it says that packages can be carried under limited quantities, as per the amount listed in table A, subject to the provisions of chapter 1.1 (plus many others). In chapter 1.1.3.6.3 (which is part of chapter 1.1 referred to by ADR 3.4 limited quantities)it then goes on to state the maximum amount that can be carried on the vehicle (the small loads threshold), in the case of petrol 333L. So to incorporate both rules you can carry up to 333 x 1L packages and no more. Both are different exemptions yes and both may have different relaxations of the rules but either will bring you into the scope of ADR. You can’t choose to ignore the small loads threshold just because it’s under limited quantities.
And sorry I just noticed I called you Olav when it should have been Ovlov Jay. Very sorry.
The small load exemption and limited quantities are two completely different rules, and have no relation to one and other. The only thing that’s wrong in my original post is you don’t need an adr for the single 2 litre bottle as its small load exempt. So let’s make the analogy simpler. A load of 30000 1 litre bottles is lq, requiring minimum training and equipment, but 167 2 litre bottles would require full training and equipment
OVLOV JAY:
The small load exemption and limited quantities are two completely different rules, and have no relation to one and other. The only thing that’s wrong in my original post is you don’t need an adr for the single 2 litre bottle as its small load exempt. So let’s make the analogy simpler. A load of 30000 1 litre bottles is lq, requiring minimum training and equipment, but 167 2 litre bottles would require full training and equipment
But a load of 30000 x 1L bottles exceeds the small loads threshold of 333l for TC2 products, doesn’t it? (the package size for the small loads threshold is irrelevant). But I do get what you are saying about the 167 x 2l bottles. Whilst I agree they are two separate rules, I am not disagreeing with that, what I am saying is you can’t ignore the 333L limit for TC2 regardless of the size of the packages. So therefor you could not carry 30000 x 1L packages just because they are beneath the LQ rules also.
i m with ovlov here. We package nail polish and to me the rules just dont make sense i can ship as many filled bottles and store as many filled bottles as i want but yet i start on the bulk 25kg drums i cant have any more than one in the building at anytime and shipping is full adr. so recently i had 150,000 filled bottles in the wharehouse and shipped them via normal pallet line but the 1500kgs of bulk i got in from Italy 2 weeks ago had to come on ADR and be stored in my external certified storage box. I just dont see what difference limited qty makes because trust me had those 150,000 bottles gone up it would still be as bad plus had the truck carrying them crashed in my opion the clean up would of been worse due to the glass 
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
The small load exemption and limited quantities are two completely different rules, and have no relation to one and other. The only thing that’s wrong in my original post is you don’t need an adr for the single 2 litre bottle as its small load exempt. So let’s make the analogy simpler. A load of 30000 1 litre bottles is lq, requiring minimum training and equipment, but 167 2 litre bottles would require full training and equipmentBut a load of 30000 x 1L bottles exceeds the small loads threshold of 333l for TC2 products, doesn’t it? (the package size for the small loads threshold is irrelevant). But I do get what you are saying about the 167 x 2l bottles. Whilst I agree they are two separate rules, I am not disagreeing with that, what I am saying is you can’t ignore the 333L limit for TC2 regardless of the size of the packages. So therefor you could not carry 30000 x 1L packages just because they are beneath the LQ rules also.
The small load exemption is there for an exemption of rules for loads up to 333/1000kg/litre, regardless of receptical, or welders would need an adr to carry their gas bottles, just like the calor gas driver that delivered it to the shop, and you’d need an adr for a Jerry can in the boot of your car.
LQ is there so larger loads can be carried in small receptacles without licence or equipment, or the likes of tesco etc would need every driver, employed or agency, to be adr trained, vehicles equipped and a dgsa employed just to move deodorant and bleach.
Where it gets skewed is nasty stuff can be transported in large volumes with little restrictions. I believe LQ should be under full adr like the old days, with an exemption for household and perfumery goods
roger red hat:
Hello guysQuick wuestion.
I have no adr, but have been told to pick up 1.5ton of paint in cans that’s class 3 hazardous.
do I need ADR to transport this?
Never do much of it, and have often been under the impression if it was under a ton I could? ( not that I’ve ever had to)
This being 500kg over has got me wondering.
Thanks!
Hi RRH,
I’ll need the UN number, the Proper Shipping Name, UN Class and Packing Group, along with the receptacle size(s) please. 
Then we’ll see. 
What about the fondue set and cuddly toy Dave? 
As for the other discussion, my money is on Ovlov Jay!
Road2ruin:
OVLOV JAY:
The small load exemption and limited quantities are two completely different rules, and have no relation to one and other. The only thing that’s wrong in my original post is you don’t need an adr for the single 2 litre bottle as its small load exempt. So let’s make the analogy simpler. A load of 30000 1 litre bottles is lq, requiring minimum training and equipment, but 167 2 litre bottles would require full training and equipmentBut a load of 30000 x 1L bottles exceeds the small loads threshold of 333l for TC2 products, doesn’t it? (the package size for the small loads threshold is irrelevant). But I do get what you are saying about the 167 x 2l bottles. Whilst I agree they are two separate rules, I am not disagreeing with that, what I am saying is you can’t ignore the 333L limit for TC2 regardless of the size of the packages. So therefor you could not carry 30000 x 1L packages just because they are beneath the LQ rules also.
Sorry mate, the small load rules (ADR 1.1.3.6) have no connection to the LQ rules (ADR 3.4) they are two completely different exemptions.
In your example, if the TC2 stuff is correctly packaged as LQs, 1.1.3.6 simply doesn’t come into it and so there is no ‘threshold’ limit.