ADR Licence

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Just found out today that I have an ADR in ‘Packages’ after the guy interviewing me checked over the certificate.

The thing is I honestly thought I had a FULL ADR and have been driving class 2 tankers for 3-4 years on and off so my 2 previous employers obviously didn’t realise either!

So my question is can I drive a class 2 oil tanker with ADR ‘Packages’? Or do I definitely need the ‘tanks’?

How much does ‘tanks’ alone cost?

Thanks

ps. This was done in the army a few years ago and I honestly thought they had put us through the whole thing, I’m going to just phone dvla tomorrow and double check incase they’ve made a mistake on the certificate, because it was only marked on by pen.

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hi mate,you will need the tanks part of the adr,i did both at sametime about £500 i think it was :smiley:

3

6 years ago it cost me £450 if i remember rightly, however it is 2 days of your CPC to i think if you want to keep the ADR and maybe use it might not be a bad investment. Ive been thinking a long time about re doing my ADR incase of emergencys.

4

Whether you had ADR in tanks or packages is simple to see on the certificate. The tanks package is always taken on the last day of the exam and is an addition.

ADR certificates only last for five years

5

you can drive a tanker with no ADR, Its whats in the tanker or has been in that matters
you state that you’ve been driving oil tankers, lots of oils are classed as none hazardous and therefore do not come under ADR regs, i very much doubt that any company would allow you to drive a tanker carrying goods under adr regs without the relevant certification

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CHRIS27:
Just found out today that I have an ADR in ‘Packages’ after the guy interviewing me checked over the certificate.

The thing is I honestly thought I had a FULL ADR and have been driving class 2 tankers for 3-4 years on and off so my 2 previous employers obviously didn’t realise either!

So my question is can I drive a class 2 oil tanker with ADR ‘Packages’? Or do I definitely need the ‘tanks’?

How much does ‘tanks’ alone cost?

Thanks

ps. This was done in the army a few years ago and I honestly thought they had put us through the whole thing, I’m going to just phone dvla tomorrow and double check incase they’ve made a mistake on the certificate, because it was only marked on by pen.

Hi CHRIS27,

The part of your ADR licence that says what you’re allowed to do is the bottom right-hand corner below:

Image1.jpg

If you can see some of the UN Class numbers in the column on the left, than you’re OK to carry those in tanks.

If the column on the left has crosses on all the UN Class numbers, then you’re only valid for carrying packages and bulk.
(Bulk = ‘loose loaded’ eg NOT in packages, such as in a skip, or tipper.)

Another way of saying this is that, if there’s a cross, you can’t do it.

I’ve also noticed that you said “oil” tanker.
If it is just normal oil that you’re carrying, it is not subject to ADR because it isn’t legally counted as ‘dangerous.’

7

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The whole left side is crossed out, and on the right hand side the 123 are not crossed out.

In oil, I mean gas oil, derv, kerosene and petrol, I honestly think the dvla have made a mistake because It was a 6 day course. Its a mistake or Ive been driving all this time without the correct licence.

Anyone know who the actual test is done by in the army? I’m thinking its the sqa maybe, but they didn’t issue my certificate, it was dvla? Confusing

9

If you’ve got crosses all the way down the ‘tanks’ column, your ‘vocational certificate’ doesn’t cover you to drive cargoes such as petrol and diesel in tanks. Even if you’ve done the training, there’s offences being committed if you are transporting those cargoes in more than excepted quantities (which you certainly are if it’s a tanker full) and you are likely to be prohibited if stopped by the police or VOSA.

Clearly you need to follow this up with the DVLA - if you think you’ve done the tanks module, it’s possible that it has been missed off your ADR certificate. It’s also possible that you did the tanks module initially, but a subsequent refresher omitted it as the Army only needed you to remain qualified for ADR in packages or bulk.

If you are missing the tanks module, you can take a standalone tanks module, which will be valid until the expiry of your current certificate.

If you want full five year validity, you can take an ADR refresher course and add the tanks module at the same time, which renews everything for five years. Alternatively, you can take a full ADR course including tanks - this may be more cost-effective if you haven’t yet gained much periodic DCPC credit, as full ADR including tanks at a DCPC registered provider either counts for 21 or 28 hours (usually 21, though some providers have the tanks module registered for another 7 hours) whilst a refresher only usually counts for 7 hours.

10

Thanks, I just found this off the DTW website where I done my training>

All trainees are provided with Dangerous Goods Awareness training but vocational drivers also receive formal training from the HAZMAT team in all aspects of the transportation of dangerous goods. This element of the course lasts 6 days and is fully accredited with the Scottish Vocational Qualifications Authority.

Surely a 6 day long course doesn’t just cover ‘packages’

I’ll have to phone up the sqa tomorrow to find out, My ADR doesn’t expire to December 2013.

11

You will have the same ADR as myself I did my ADR just before i came out a couple of years ago we did 5 day course going over everything in tanks and packages but we only did the test on 1 2 3 in packages as as army personnel thats mainly what we carry specialist drivers ie fuel drivers do the full adr package I think you will find out you are only licenced to do what your ADR cert says unfortunately

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CHRIS27:
Surely a 6 day long course doesn’t just cover ‘packages’

I presume it is this page you are talking about.

If all of the 6 days was ADR and not either general or military specific hazardous goods training, this indicates you did core, packages, tanks, classes 2/3/4/5/6/8/9 and either class 1 (explosives) or class 7 (radioactive). I’d guess that the military need many more drivers trained on class 1 than on class 7, but IÂ could be wrong.

However, as army2483 says, just because you covered all the content doesn’t necessarily mean you did all the exams. Your certificate will only reflect the exams you’ve passed.

Exactly what have you got in the ‘In tanks’ and ‘Other than in tanks’ columns? If you post what you have, we can tell you what you need to do to be covered for fuel tankers (class 3 ‘in tanks’).

I can see the point of classes 1, 2 and 3 ‘other than in tanks’ only, though the common classes route means there wouldn’t be that much more content to cover for all classes other than 7. Classes 1, 2 and 3 ‘other than in tanks’ will cover the vast majority of military materiel - ammunition, LPG and 1000l fuel containers. Far fewer military drivers will need tanks or other classes.

If you have class 1 and/or 7 on your ADR certificate, these may not be worth renewing as a civilian unless you are actively using them. Each of these classes is a day long module that you have to retake at every five-yearly renewal. If you let these classes go but later want them back, you just have to do the relevant module to have the class added back to your ADR certificate.

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We done explosives, and in the ‘not in tanks’ I have 1,2,3

I have another question I completed the ADR course in 2006, my ADR expiry date is December 2013?

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CHRIS27:
The whole left side is crossed out, and on the right hand side the 123 are not crossed out.

In oil, I mean gas oil, derv, kerosene and petrol, I honestly think the dvla have made a mistake because It was a 6 day course. Its a mistake or Ive been driving all this time without the correct licence.

Hi CHRIS27,

Thanks for the extra info. :smiley:

As things stand, you’re not legal to drive a tanker that’s carrying a dangerous substance.

You have UN Classes 1, 2 and 3 in packages, so that covers to carry explosives, gases and flammable liquids only.

CHRIS27:
Anyone know who the actual test is done by in the army? I’m thinking its the sqa maybe, but they didn’t issue my certificate, it was dvla? Confusing

SQA sets and marks the ADR exams.
The results are then transmitted to DVLA, Swansea.
DVLA then prints and sends the ADR certificate to the address shown on the driver’s licence.

I’m a civvy ADR instructor, and what I’ve written applies to civvies, but I believe that the military do sometimes have their own way of doing some things. TBF, I don’t know anything about how the military might go about ADR training, although I can only comment that six days seems a bit too long for the tuition of the ADR modules that you’ve covered.

For civvies, we’d do the modules you took in this way:

Tuition
Core = 1.5 days
Packages = 1.5 hrs (optionally, this can be 2.25 hrs)
Tanks = 1.5 days
Class 1 = 1 day
Class 2 = 1.5 hrs
Class 3 = 1.5 hrs

Exam timings
Core = 40mins (25 questions)
Packages = 25mins (15 questions)
Tanks = 30mins (20 questions)
Class 1 = 30mins (20 questions)
Class 2 = 25mins (15 questions)
Class 3 = 25mins (15 questions)

That little lot fits nicely into 5 days, so if you needed 6 days, there’s the proof that the military do ADR a bit differently. :smiley:

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CHRIS27:
I have another question I completed the ADR course in 2006, my ADR expiry date is December 2013?

That’s possibly correct mate, cos an ADR certificate is valid for 5 years, plus any unused portion from the old certificate if you did a refresher.

Unless the military also do that bit differently…

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Think where Chris is getting it wrong is yes we sit through the whole course packages and tanks but we only sit the exam in un classes 1 2 3 and after doing all the modules he thinks he sat the whole adr exam when he didnt he just did the packages 1 2 and 3 doh homer moment lol

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CHRIS27:
We done explosives, and in the ‘not in tanks’ I have 1,2,3

Judging by what army2483 posted, it sounds as if you maybe didn’t take the tanks exam even if you did the tanks training.

You have a strategic decision to make by the sound of it. You need to do the tanks module as soon as possible - without it, you cannot legally drive fuel tankers.

You only have about 18 months left on your current ADR certificate. This raises the question of whether it’s better to do a tanks module (1.5 days) for 18 months, or aim to renew for five years now.

If you’re doing to renew, arguably the best route would be to do a full core / packages / tanks / classes 2/3/4/5/6/8/9 - the normal five day full ADR course taught to civilians. If you choose a DCPC registered trainer, you can get either 21 or 28 hours of the 35 hours periodic DCPC training you need from this course. To an extent, your decision will be influenced by your current DCPC position - if you need the DCPC hours, getting them whilst sorting out your ADR position makes a lot of sense.

What I don’t know - and I’m looking to others who do (dieseldave?) - is what happens if Chris does a full five day ADR course now without taking a class 1 day. The list of permutations is mindblowing and I don’t want to speculate, beyond observing that he’s not yet in the usual one year renewal window.

You probably won’t have any need of explosives on your ADR certificate in civvy street, but the last thing you want is to take an expensive week of training to discover that it merely upgrades your ADR certificate for 18 months because of an expiring class 1 entitlement that you didn’t want to renew. In those circumstances it would be cheaper to take a class 1 day now and renew the lot for five years - you could let the class 1 lapse at your next ADR renewal if you are not using it.

You may well have to take advice from SQA and/or DVLA on what your options are.

18

djw:
If you’ve got crosses all the way down the ‘tanks’ column, your ‘vocational certificate’ doesn’t cover you to drive cargoes such as petrol and diesel in tanks. Even if you’ve done the training, there’s offences being committed if you are transporting those cargoes in more than excepted quantities (which you certainly are if it’s a tanker full) and you are likely to be prohibited if stopped by the police or VOSA.

Hi djw,

The Excepted Quantity rules only apply to packages.

An empty tanker is still subject to ADR as if it were full, and that applies until the tanker is cleaned and purged including all hoses and equipment.

djw:
Clearly you need to follow this up with the DVLA - if you think you’ve done the tanks module, it’s possible that it has been missed off your ADR certificate. It’s also possible that you did the tanks module initially, but a subsequent refresher omitted it as the Army only needed you to remain qualified for ADR in packages or bulk.

Two very fair points there, but I’ll add that I’ve have known SQA to make (very rare) errors in the info they transmit to DVLA, so Chris might still have a good reason to check it out.
:bulb: Normally, I’d suggest that a candidate checks with the original ADR provider, but I’ve no idea how the military system works.

djw:
If you are missing the tanks module, you can take a standalone tanks module, which will be valid until the expiry of your current certificate.

Yes, that’s possible and a candidate doesn’t have to use the same provider.

djw:
If you want full five year validity, you can take an ADR refresher course and add the tanks module at the same time, which renews everything for five years.

Sorry djw, that’s not quite correct.
Nobody can add a new module when sitting a refresher course, because the refresher course assumes prior knowledge and is done in approx half of the normal time.
A candidate can add a new module if they sit an initial course as a refresher candidate though.
That way, they get the additional module, they lose no entitlement and the learning is at a sensible pace.

djw:
Alternatively, you can take a full ADR course including tanks - this may be more cost-effective if you haven’t yet gained much periodic DCPC credit, as full ADR including tanks at a DCPC registered provider either counts for 21 or 28 hours (usually 21, though some providers have the tanks module registered for another 7 hours) whilst a refresher only usually counts for 7 hours.

I’d say this is a better bet for most people, cos it can kill a few birds with one stone, but maybe Chris needs to get the situation corrected ASAP. The first available tanker module would then be his best bet IMHO.

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Thanks for the replies, I’m going to phone them tomorrow anyway, if it turns out I only have packages I’ll do a quick tanks module next week and hopefully get the job, I’ve still got 3-4 years experience even though I didn’t have the correct licence :wink: Then the company can put me through a refresher course after 18 months :slight_smile:

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CHRIS27:
… In oil, I mean gas oil, derv, kerosene and petrol, …

All three of those are dangerous goods of UN Class 3, so carrying any amount of them in a tank vehicle requires an ADR certificate for tanks if the tank fixed to the carrying vehicle is more than 1,000 ltrs, OR you carry a tank-container of more than 3,000 ltrs.

CHRIS27:
I honestly think the dvla have made a mistake because It was a 6 day course. Its a mistake or Ive been driving all this time without the correct licence.

Both of those are possible mate, so I’d suggest that you check it out.