ad blue

[waynedl]

dew:

waynedl:

dew:
Some Volvos came with a DPF with an Ad blue like system (Called something like Eylosis fluid I think), luckily my car (09 C30 D5) has a later system, where during long Motorway runs, it injects a small amount of Diesel into the exhaust in order to heat the filter up and re burn it.

Lucky as the Fluid models need topping up every £36k (by a dealer) and the whole filter has to be replaced every 70k (at a bill of around £700!)

That sounds like something that would have ‘fell off’ the car, like my Catalytic Converters always seem to on diesels

Throws up all kinds of computer errors unfortunately, I know a few on the Volvo forums have tried and it’s lead to all sorts of headaches.

Glad mines got the later system. It does knock the fuel economy down a touch on long runs when it goes for a burn off, but if economy was an issue for me, I wouldn’t have bought the 2.4

Someone usually finds a way round, usually some sort of aftermarket addon that fools the computer into thinking it’s there.

Mine’s a 3.0, and is REALLY ■■■■ on fuel, but god it’s quick and pulls my caravan like it’s not even towing. BMW 530d

[gembo]

waynedl:

Gembo:
Its a pain in the [zb] arse is what it is. My truck can only be filled at the commercial garage which is about 45 minutes away through town trafic from the yard. When i get there i have to go to the transport office and ask for a fill up. I then drive round to the pump and wait another 20 minutes for a fitter to arrive to use the pump as its all locked up!
Its a 2 hour job if im lucky, all well and good but im busy most days!
I think its a big scam. So, the operator pays less road tax because the truck uses this crap but the truck uses 30 quids worth in a fortnight. Or am i missing something here??

Less road tax, the ability to go into ‘The Smoke’ (with some trucks, some obviously don’t need it), earning drivers more wages

I dint know that, so your saying that i could no longer drive into London in an old ERF EC14 then??
I know its less tax but surely it’l cost you more in ad blue.

[gembo]

waynedl:
Mine’s a 3.0, and is REALLY [zb] on fuel, but god it’s quick and pulls my caravan like it’s not even towing. BMW 530d

Good to see another driver on here with one of those. (the van i mean, not the car )

[waynedl]

Gembo:

waynedl:

Gembo:
Its a pain in the [zb] arse is what it is. My truck can only be filled at the commercial garage which is about 45 minutes away through town trafic from the yard. When i get there i have to go to the transport office and ask for a fill up. I then drive round to the pump and wait another 20 minutes for a fitter to arrive to use the pump as its all locked up!
Its a 2 hour job if im lucky, all well and good but im busy most days!
I think its a big scam. So, the operator pays less road tax because the truck uses this crap but the truck uses 30 quids worth in a fortnight. Or am i missing something here??

Less road tax, the ability to go into ‘The Smoke’ (with some trucks, some obviously don’t need it), earning drivers more wages

I dint know that, so your saying that i could no longer drive into London in an old ERF EC14 then??
I know its less tax but surely it’l cost you more in ad blue.

Not sure about the EC14, but there’s the LEZ, (London Low Emissions Zone) that has strict restrictions, but there are exemptions, like circus’, historic vehicles, PCV, and a few others…

It’s considerably cheaper Road Tax, think ours were around £1200 / yr on the Daf CF’s, not sure how much without, but I’ve definately seen tax discs with £1850 on them, probably higher tax’s around, I don’t take that much notice tbh, but it’s a hell of a lot of 30 quids, and you only pay for ad blue as it’s used, unlike road tax which you’ve got to pay all year round.

[waynedl]

Gembo:

waynedl:
Mine’s a 3.0, and is REALLY [zb] on fuel, but god it’s quick and pulls my caravan like it’s not even towing. BMW 530d

Good to see another driver on here with one of those. (the van i mean, not the car )

It’s an oldy I bought for a special reason, but then I got ■■■■■■ off from Maritime, so that changed the trip plans, then I started back at work, so trip was replanned for around April this year, then I get ■■■■■■ off from Turners, so now it’s gonna be a few local hols again.

[gembo]

waynedl:
Not sure about the EC14, but there’s the LEZ, (London Low Emissions Zone) that has strict restrictions, but there are exemptions, like circus’, historic vehicles, PCV, and a few others…

It’s considerably cheaper Road Tax, think ours were around £1200 / yr on the Daf CF’s, not sure how much without, but I’ve definately seen tax discs with £1850 on them, probably higher tax’s around, I don’t take that much notice tbh, but it’s a hell of a lot of 30 quids, and you only pay for ad blue as it’s used, unlike road tax which you’ve got to pay all year round.

Yes, see what you mean!

waynedl:
it’s gonna be a few local hols again.

Those can be the bset ones mate, i only went an hour away last year.

[kberg]

I really like adblue

It lets the engine work as an engine, and make power, and then just clean up all the crap in the exhaust system in stead.

I just feel egr is a bad idea!

The guys at our volvo dealer say a truck running without adblue (that has the system) pollutes like an old f12… because the engine is tuned to make power in stead of trying to be “green”

IIrc, adblue actually need a bit of crap in the exhaust to work.

[cheekymonkey]

@ Winseer. Yes I may not have made it clear. I meant filling up the Adblue tank as we do now in trucks.

Also, as far as I`m aware adblue is injected into the exhaust stream post turbo and not the inlet side.

[muckaway]

Here’s some comparissons;
Foden Alpha, Euro 3 £650/year road tax. 9.9mpg
Daf CF, Euro 5 £270/year road tax. 9mpg
Both are 26t rigids, given the cost of adblue is it worth it?

I’d just like to warn people thinking of buying a Volvo FE, (7litre Maggie D engine although I’ve read is being discontinued in favour of Renault engines) that Smiths have had many problems with the Adblue systems failing on theirs…

[muckles]

I think one of reason car manufactures are making ad blue systems a service item is the fact that so many car driver are just going to make a complete hash of filling up the ad blue tank. It’s going to end up with all sorts of crap in it. It bad enough with miss fuelling let alone another tank for them to worry about.

[206doorman]

muckles:
I think one of reason car manufactures are making ad blue systems a service item is the fact that so many car driver are just going to make a complete hash of filling up the ad blue tank. It’s going to end up with all sorts of crap in it. It bad enough with miss fuelling let alone another tank for them to worry about.

Agree with you there muckles…also,consumption is likely very low compared to ours so
the tank is probably only carrying a couple of litres anyway.

[waynedl]

kberg:
I really like adblue

It lets the engine work as an engine, and make power, and then just clean up all the crap in the exhaust system in stead.

I just feel egr is a bad idea!

The guys at our volvo dealer say a truck running without adblue (that has the system) pollutes like an old f12… because the engine is tuned to make power in stead of trying to be “green”

IIrc, adblue actually need a bit of crap in the exhaust to work.

I think a lot of that is bull ■■■■ tbh. I’ve driven old trucks with lower bhp figures that run rings around the 460’s and 480’s that I’ve driven recently. An old Daf 85 (CF) 360 was 1 of the quickest and most powerfull trucks I’ve driven, it’d run full weight most nights and flew past most modern trucks, ok it didn’t have a working limiter either which probably helped, but it’d still be over 50mph at the top of that daft hill on the M40 going towards London.

[madbaz]

EGR works fine if you separate the oil vapour from the crankcase from the sooty stuff coming from the exhaust valves, but many systems don’t and you end up with a thick gloopy mess inside the egr and the intake ports which constricts the bore (kinda like clogged up arteries) and you end up with less airflow. On a Galaxy the build up over 70k miles is 12mm of the diameter of the bore or around a 14% reduction, times that by litres of air an hour and its a serious performance loss.

[winseer]

cheekymonkey:
@ Winseer. Yes I may not have made it clear. I meant filling up the Adblue tank as we do now in trucks.

Also, as far as I`m aware adblue is injected into the exhaust stream post turbo and not the inlet side.

I mentioned blowing it across the catalyst. Diesel needs to be atomised in order for it to burn. Once burned, there is still some amount of unburned fuel in the exhaust stream along with gases like Carbon Monoxide & Dioxide (CO,CO2), Oxides of Nitrogen (NO,NO2,N2O3,N2O4,N2O5,N2O), Sulphur Dioxide & Trioxide (SO2 & trace SO3), Atmospheric Nitrogen (N2), and even trace amounts of real nasties like cyanides (CN).

If any fuel was burned 100% efficient, there would not be any unburned fuel of course, but some of those gases result from the ignition passing through a mixture of fuel and air, with most of what remains coming from incomplete combustion of the fuel itself. What’s left is N2 (unburned part of air) and of course the unburned fuel. Plastics & Sugars can be sythesised using the molecules shown above, but only with a catalyst. There’s a lot of chemistry that “won’t run uphill” without a catalyst of some description. Platinum is probably the best publicly known one. If one describes both the process of passing to the catalyst and atomising into the combustion chamber as “injection”, then clearly injection is occuring twice - once with 100% unburned fuel, and then again post-combustion with what unburned fuel remains, along with the exhaust gases. I believe that it is possible to fail an MOT for too much unburned fuel in the secondary (exhaust) mix, along with a few other of the above molecules listed above. N2 is benign (78% of the air we breathe anyway), so you won’t get failed for too much of that one!

I’ve had described to me by assessors that some modern trucks (Eg. Axor Mercs) shunt unburned fuel back into the tank when running downhill, but I don’t know the process here. It was indicated to be part of the exhaust braking system which I don’t understand either. Chemistry is more my thing than mechanics!

As for Petrol Engines - was it not that long ago when cars “needed” 4star, then came cars with catalytic converters, then you could only get fuel that ran on them, and now there’s only unleaded petrol for cars with calytic converters around. Has anyone got a really old cortina or something that runs modern unleaded without any catalyst being “modded” to the car?
I’m not a petrolhead to know how old vehicles fare with modern fuels.

If we all used Hydrogen fuel with Oxygen tanks to assure a mix that 100% combusts, then we’d have all the pollution problems solved. An abundance of nuclear power stations could have been set to work electrolyzing seawater to create cheap H2 and O2, but guess what? “Not In My Back Yard” attitudes have caused such a lack of nuclear power stations in this country that we’re still petroleum addicts in the 21st century!

[kberg]

waynedl:

kberg:
I really like adblue
blahblahblah.

I think a lot of that is bull [zb] tbh. I’ve driven old trucks with lower bhp figures that run rings around the 460’s and 480’s that I’ve driven recently. An old Daf 85 (CF) 360 was 1 of the quickest and most powerfull trucks I’ve driven, it’d run full weight most nights and flew past most modern trucks, ok it didn’t have a working limiter either which probably helped, but it’d still be over 50mph at the top of that daft hill on the M40 going towards London.

I am not saying new truck run better than an old one, because it has ab, I say the new truck would run worse with egr than with ab.
They are all tuned to be “green” these days…more or less…

[waynedl]

MADBAZ:
EGR works fine if you separate the oil vapour from the crankcase from the sooty stuff coming from the exhaust valves, but many systems don’t and you end up with a thick gloopy mess inside the egr and the intake ports which constricts the bore (kinda like clogged up arteries) and you end up with less airflow. On a Galaxy the build up over 70k miles is 12mm of the diameter of the bore or around a 14% reduction, times that by litres of air an hour and its a serious performance loss.

Cleaned mine out a few months ago, BMW 530d, 165,000 ish on the clock, it was a ■■■■■■■ mess. Parafin, blue paper, screw driver etc, took me hours, that was just the EGR valve itself, never even got round to taking off the induction manifold because it was getting dark by time I’d finished the valve

[waynedl]

Winseer:
Has anyone got a really old cortina or something that runs modern unleaded without any catalyst being “modded” to the car?
I’m not a petrolhead to know how old vehicles fare with modern fuels.

I had a Sierra XR4x4 2.9i last year, ran fine on unleaded, it had a new head a couple of years ago, I believe this had modified valves too, but other than that, no idea on any changes, but definately no cats

[milodon]

kberg:
I am not saying new truck run better than an old one, because it has ab, I say the new truck would run worse with egr than with ab.
They are all tuned to be “green” these days…more or less…

+1

[fallmonk]

Mates a ford mechanic and remember him saying new diesel fords are fitted with a “fat tank” basically Add Blue , when it runs out cost about £1000 to replace !!!

Every time the fuel flap is opened / closed it squirts some in , what they found is if your only putting say £10 in a time the thing thinks its a full tank and sprays away happily , so it goes thru a tank off additive very quick !!

[muckaway]

The FE that broke down before Christmas with adblue fault, broke down again yesterday…just as it’s sister vehicles’ adblue fault had been fixed Utter crap…