Abolish/Scrap the CPC Legislation

[shep532]

wildfire:
i have signed it because as the cpc stands at the moment its pretty worthless, having no pass or fail and being able to do the same coarse 5 times just is a waste of time, it needs to be totally re-thought

Having a pass or fail would be the worse thing you could do to some drivers. Example was yesterday - 8 drivers in a DCPC session. At lunch I gave them a written test - multi choice. 3 of them would have failed had it been a real test. They knew the answrs - just didn’t read the question. Exams and tests are also about knowing how to read the questions and understanding how certain techniques for exam passing. Most of these lads haven’t been in a classroom for many years.

As soon as we wnet through the answrs they realised what they had done wrong. A simple example. UTC time - in summnertime is -1 hour from local time - they missed the question said ‘in summer time’.

So a simple test and 3 ‘failed’ Had this been real they would now be off work until a resit could be arranged. As it was I know they knew the answers, just the fear of a test meant they weren’t thinking straight and almost panicked.

What about those with learning difficulties, reading/writing issues etc etc. A pass fail would just be a huge problem. i think they got the attendance only bit right.

As for doing the same course 5 times … why would you book the same course 5 times? Although I have met some that needed to do this as they had trouble learning.

[nd888_bigj]

dessy:

ND888 BIGJ:
well said i done mine over 5 days and some of the questions people were asking was embarresing basic stuff that everyone should know my company paid for the coarse and we got 50hrs pay as well.

Well Lucky You!
Your lucky you are not in the category of drivers funding themselves aren’t you? I’m alright jack and [zb] the rest of you [zb] attitude!!

You drive a coach don’t you?

yes i drive a coach but i do have an hgv too i understand that not everyone gets thier company to fund this coarse the company i work for values its workforce my boss who is 78 yrs of age done the coarse too.

i have family members who hold an operators cpc but still have to do this i agree that the way its being implemented is flawed but we do need some sort of training.

[betty_swallox]

I think that rather than abolish/scrap the CPC it needs to be modified. Taking the same module 5 times in order to gain your CPC isn’t acceptable & shouldn’t be allowed.
A couple of years ago i was in favour of scrapping the CPC scheme, seeing it as another form of stealth tax, however, having done 2 parts myself now, i’ve been surprised at how much i didn’t know. Does anyone really think that once they’ve passed their LGV test that they’re fully equipped to enter the transport industry & deal with all the regs/rules etc? From what i remember when i passed my LGV test all i was taught was how to drive, not how the hours/laws worked etc etc.
I’m lucky enough to work for a firm that pays for my CPC so cost isn’t a factor for me but, if i had to pay for it myself i would, it’s only £70 per year after all.

[nd888_bigj]

like i have posted before if you live in scotland you can fund it through ILA indevidual learning acount you get £200 per year to fund training , learning ect .

[conor]

Tony4562:
It is requested that the CPC Legislation be Abolished/Scrapped

I apologise in advance if this being my first post upsets anyone. I am trying to get as much support and publicity as possible to obtain over 100,000 signatures on this e-petition - epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33997

Won’t get my vote. One only has to look at the countless number of incorrect posts in this very forum about basic tacho regs by people who have been driving for years to see that the DCPC is more than needed.

[conor]

madguy:
Done

Madguy

I don’t know why you’ve signed it as you’re obviously in need of doing the DCPC as you don’t even know basic tacho and WTD regs:

madguy:
Can i just clarify please in case i’m being a bit thick?

When working multi drop stop start, if i dont actually drive for 4.5 hours i can go till 6 hours and then must take a break of a minimum of 45 mins.

in other words, if i’ve only actually driven say 3.5 hours total I have a rest at 6 hours.

Sorry to sound thick but we all start somewhere

Madguy

As I said, you need to be doing it. I’m quite sure I could find posts from every single person on here against it proving they don’t even know the basics and thus amply demonstrating why its needed.

[mrreliable]

This will never happen just as an Electrician or Plumber have to do a similar thing to stay qualified.

The DCPC is not a bad thing, the pittance that people pay in wages is what needs to be addressed.
Whilst a company is happy to pay large costs for new tractor units the guy driving it gets peanuts in comparison. I started driving artics in 1990 and I wish my wages had gone up by the same as prices of tractor units.

Hopefully the DCPC will increase wages as people rebel against it by either retiring early or not doing it and find alternative careers. With the shortage of drivers wages should go upwards. Years ago when I was at school HGV drivers were in the same earning categories as plumbers, builders and other trades and hopefully this may happen again.

[yellowasp]

Conor:

Tony4562:
It is requested that the CPC Legislation be Abolished/Scrapped

I apologise in advance if this being my first post upsets anyone. I am trying to get as much support and publicity as possible to obtain over 100,000 signatures on this e-petition - epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33997

Won’t get my vote. One only has to look at the countless number of incorrect posts in this very forum about basic tacho regs by people who have been driving for years to see that the DCPC is more than needed.

agree entirely. This is your job and i am astonished to read how little people know. Thats without sticking the latest highway code in front of then. AND then they bleat about being professional.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

[suffolklad]

shep532:
Having a pass or fail would be the worse thing you could do to some drivers. Example was yesterday - 8 drivers in a DCPC session. At lunch I gave them a written test - multi choice. 3 of them would have failed had it been a real test. They knew the answrs - just didn’t read the question. Exams and tests are also about knowing how to read the questions and understanding how certain techniques for exam passing. Most of these lads haven’t been in a classroom for many years.

Why? Surely if there was a pass or fail element to it then it would weed out those who didn’t know/didn’t understand/couldn’t be bothered to learn, and surely this could make the industry a better place to work? It’s neither here nor there that some of us haven’t been in a classroom for years, if there was a requirement to pass, then those willing to learn and/or pass would knuckle down and get on with it. And for those that did fail, give them a time limit to re sit the exam, but make it so that resitting the exam doesn’t count as any extra to the total hours.

[wheel_nut]

You have more chance of getting a visitation of vestel virgins paid for by the Prime Minister

The CPC is necessary, it is JAUPT you need to get abolished

[wheel_nut]

Conor:

Tony4562:
It is requested that the CPC Legislation be Abolished/Scrapped

I apologise in advance if this being my first post upsets anyone. I am trying to get as much support and publicity as possible to obtain over 100,000 signatures on this e-petition - epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33997

Won’t get my vote. One only has to look at the countless number of incorrect posts in this very forum about basic tacho regs by people who have been driving for years to see that the DCPC is more than needed.

Conor, many of the incorrect posts come from you! and not just on this forum

[happydaze]

Wheel Nut:

Conor:

Tony4562:
It is requested that the CPC Legislation be Abolished/Scrapped

I apologise in advance if this being my first post upsets anyone. I am trying to get as much support and publicity as possible to obtain over 100,000 signatures on this e-petition - epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33997

Won’t get my vote. One only has to look at the countless number of incorrect posts in this very forum about basic tacho regs by people who have been driving for years to see that the DCPC is more than needed.

Conor, many of the incorrect posts come from you! and not just on this forum

You have to read this in a stern teacher voice!

[happy_keith]

green456:
'…its EU legislation, will a petition to our govt overturn their decisions… ’

Possibly not since ‘…our gov’t…’ is in reality just a succession of mouthpiece Lib/Lab/Con of Brussels bidding but at least we can show some spine, can’t we

ND888 BIGJ:
‘…No chance mate its here and its here to stay … get real…’

With ‘…get real…’ coming from ‘…BIG J…’ I’ll take this suggestion with a bucket/pinch of salt. I’d expect such capitulation from a ‘Big Sheep’ though…

yellowasp:
‘…might learn something…’

‘…[M]ight…’: Is that the best we can hope for with this nonsense of foreign making?

For the nausea that the EU is undemocratically legislating upon British industry, I’d hope for a darn sight more progress to be guaranteed than a half-expectant ‘might’.

Conor:
‘…Won’t get my vote … the DCPC is more than needed…’

What’s so wrong about the need being properly analysed and implemented for British needs rather than rubber-stamping a homogenised and fundamentally European ‘one-size-fits-all’ that ill fits what’s arguably really needed.

Hasn’t the Euro financial farce illustrated to us that this too is nothing more than a contrived, unwanted (in this format), overblown & expensive nonentity?

[shep532]

SuffolkLad:

shep532:
Having a pass or fail would be the worse thing you could do to some drivers. Example was yesterday - 8 drivers in a DCPC session. At lunch I gave them a written test - multi choice. 3 of them would have failed had it been a real test. They knew the answrs - just didn’t read the question. Exams and tests are also about knowing how to read the questions and understanding how certain techniques for exam passing. Most of these lads haven’t been in a classroom for many years.

Why? Surely if there was a pass or fail element to it then it would weed out those who didn’t know/didn’t understand/couldn’t be bothered to learn, and surely this could make the industry a better place to work? It’s neither here nor there that some of us haven’t been in a classroom for years, if there was a requirement to pass, then those willing to learn and/or pass would knuckle down and get on with it. And for those that did fail, give them a time limit to re sit the exam, but make it so that resitting the exam doesn’t count as any extra to the total hours.

I think you missed my point.

I have delivered DCPC to hundreds of drivers and met many who can answer every question thrown at them - until you stick it on paper and call it an exam.

Personally - I think I would make more money if there was an exam. Plenty would fail and I’d get paid to host the resits. then there’d be the extra tuition for those that fail etc

Of course it would be like the ADR. You would still have to do the training before you could do the exam. ADR is an attendance course with an exam. So if DCPC was done this way - that would count out home or distance study - so you’d still end up in the classroom for 7 hours and then maybe fail at the end.

a pass/fail system would be the worst thing they could do.

[happy_keith]

shep532:
‘…a pass/fail system would be the worst thing they could do…’

Who exactly are the ‘…they…’ that you refer to?

UK politicans are far too busy running the world/Euro-crisis, etc; the RHA is a lickspittle of the gvernment; the unions only want Labour back ‘in power’ at any cost to the economy & Brussels is too arrogant to care - so who is realistically left with any clout?

[happydaze]

Happy Keith:

shep532:
‘…a pass/fail system would be the worst thing they could do…’

Who exactly are the ‘…they…’ that you refer to?

UK politicans are far too busy running the world/Euro-crisis, etc; the RHA is a lickspittle of the gvernment; the unions only want Labour back ‘in power’ at any cost to the economy & Brussels is too arrogant to care - so who is realistically left with any clout?

Lickspittle! Haven’t heard it in years!

Very true post though

[war1974]

so if drivers struggle with written exams do oral ones? give a percentage pass rate a bit like a car theory test, but make it worthwhile some of the modules on the dcpc are a ■■■■■■■ joke yes drivers rules and regs but you dont need 35 hours training on it. load security again why would experienced drivers need this they load a vehicle almost every day maybe more? the whole thing is another money making scam just like the digi card, and will rates of pay go up as drivers become ‘qualified’? will they ■■■■ as like!

[tony4562]

After reading thru the posts I see that opinions on this subject differ, with some questionable remarks (i’ll say no more) but we all have an opinion. I have researched this subject and although im in favour of improving driver standards, this legislation in my opinion will do nothing more than put extra costs onto drivers. Yes the costs at present for just the cpc are approx £350-00. I wonder how much they will increase in 2014,2015,2016 etc when enforcement is in place. Below is a link to the course requirements - my objections to the cpc course content is highlighted in RED

direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr … /DG_186131

There is no test to pass and courses can be practical or classroom based.
Course subjects may include:

eco-safe and fuel efficient driving -

Cpc course content

Why is fuel efficiency so important?
What to do before you set off
What to do whilst out driving
What to do when back at base
By the end of the session, drivers will be able to demonstrate an awareness of the key principles of fuel efficient driving. In fact, the lessons learned during this course have been shown to help drivers deliver fuel economy gains of over 20%.

I believe employers and drivers do this already to ensure fuel consumption is kept to a minimum and employers are starting to use greener vehicles for the enviroment. In simple terms as a driver, we keep it in the Green Zone with correct use of gears.

defensive driving techniques -

Cpc course content

Standards for safe and economic driving
Acceleration & cruise control
Braking
Clutch control
Drive position
Road & weather conditions
Steering
Gear selection & use
Hazard perception
Speed
Lane discipline
Use of mirrors
Use of signals
Overtaking
Vehicle sympathy
Driver’s attitude
Road markings & signs
Vehicle & route

Good drivers always assume the worst situation is going to occur whilst driving already (Do you not really learn your trade by experience) you cant teach a driver to drive in a classroom, (you can only point out situations). I doubt this legislation will change the bad drivers (those that tailgate, speed,drive recklessly, take no account of changes in weather conditions etc etc. I am an advanced driver myself (to obtain that qualification, it took 25days of training almost all of it sat behind the wheel on the road) This cpc legislation cannot teach defensive driving techniques in a 7hrs classroom lesson.

first aid -

Cpc course content

Spinal Injury: responding to a casualty with suspected spinal injury
Unconscious casualty: recognition of life threatening conditions
Bleeding: responding to a casualty with minor or severe bleeding
Resuscitation
Safer handling and moving
Emergencies in public.

I do believe that everyone should have a knowledge of basic first aid, but not enforced by cpc legislation.

health and safety -

Cpc course content

Legal Obligations
Manual Handling
Use of Handling Aids
How the Body Works
Workplace Safety
Work at Height
Personal Protective Equipment
Risk Assessment

Health and Safety is mostly Common sense, I believe employers and sites and/or places you deliver/collect from should train/enforce health and safety. Most Sites insist you do an induction before your allowed entry already.

Drivers’ hours rules and using tachographs-

Cpc course content

Drivers hours Law/WT
Analogue Tachograph
Trace identification
Centre Field Requirement
Hand Written Entries
Exemption
Domestic Rule
Digital Tacnograph
Makes of Digital Tachograph
Drivers/Company Workshop and Control Card
Operational modes
Manual Entries
UTC Time
Logging On and Off
Pictograms
Printouts
Mixed Tachograph Work

As a HGV/PSV Driver, should,nt you know these rules and regulations to carry out your employment as a driver before ever taking a HGV/PSV on the road. The employer should be checking Tacho’s or Digi print outs to ensure compliance and it is enforced by the Police and VOSA under current legislation

These are just my opinions ! why I have set up the e-petition.

[damoq]

My take on the DCPC is that it could be better, but its a good idea. For example, why can we sit the same course 5 times and still complete our required amount of training. It should be a different course every session IMO. But I think that drivers/companies who value the haulage industry will do their 35 hours of training before 2014, and the others who don’t value it and think its a complete waste of time probably won’t do it. Come 2014 when all training has to be completed I reckon there could be a shortage of qualified drivers. Then those of us who have completed our training will be sought after and may be able to demand better wages and conditions. Thats just my take on it and I hope I’m right about the wages thing!!!
So for that reason, I won’t be signing it. Sorry.

[dessy]

damoq:
My take on the DCPC is that it could be better, but its a good idea. For example, why can we sit the same course 5 times and still complete our required amount of training. It should be a different course every session IMO. But I think that drivers/companies who value the haulage industry will do their 35 hours of training before 2014, and the others who don’t value it and think its a complete waste of time probably won’t do it. Come 2014 when all training has to be completed I reckon there could be a shortage of qualified drivers. Then those of us who have completed our training will be sought after and may be able to demand better wages and conditions. Thats just my take on it and I hope I’m right about the wages thing!!!
So for that reason, I won’t be signing it. Sorry.

We already have a so called driver shortage mate! Don’t see a rise in wages anywhere! Don’t fool yourself thinking what the wages will increase because they won’t and to top that your gonna have to keep doing your 35 hours with whatever they want to charge you and your gonna have to ■■■■ it up!!