A63 @ Hull today

The police closed the A63/M62 today due to a man being Shot by the police. see http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=136536&command=displayContent&sourceNode=136263&home=yes&contentPK=12088020
definately goes to show
how badly stuffed the traffic can be for the people of Hull if the A63 is closed for any long period of time.
I had the mis-fortune to have to drive the truck to Hull this morning, only to find myself stuck near the south cave exit of the M62 (J38) at 8:10am, I ended up having to go via: south cave, south & north cliff, up to the A1079 across to bishop burton & beverley, and down the A164 via hessle centre to get back on the A63 at the junction next to sainbury`s so I could geto off the A63 at the junction opposite Macro / the point to where I was going 2hrs later.
Then go back via the A1079, and A164, towards Goole to get back on the M62. only to be stuck on the A164 near the caville bridge for 3hrs (2hrs to move 1 mile )
it seemed like the area within 10 - 15 miles west of Hull was totally gridlocked. there was a hell of a lot of debate going on, on the local radio as to the whys and whatevers the traffic gridlock could be avoided.

and before someone asks why I didnt go over the bridge and via the M180 to go west.......................simple I didnt have the £16.70 to pay the toll to cross the bridge on me

question has got to be asked why kill a bloke (looney or not) for carrying a sword.surely with the amount of police present there were better ways of doing it.

peter cherry:
question has got to be asked why kill a bloke (looney or not) for carrying a sword.surely with the amount of police present there were better ways of doing it.

Because the guy was a loon. When he crashed his own van, he tried to hijack several other vehicles including a Suttons tanker. They shot him twice with baton rounds and he still kept coming at them so they had no choice.

Loony or not, A gun against a sword is not fair.

Loony probably, He did live in Beverley. the police spokesman was backpedalling on his statement.

It seems more like the police baton round missed him, and the coppers panicked :open_mouth:

Conor:

peter cherry:
question has got to be asked why kill a bloke (looney or not) for carrying a sword.surely with the amount of police present there were better ways of doing it.

Because the guy was a loon. When he crashed his own van, he tried to hijack several other vehicles including a Suttons tanker. They shot him twice with baton rounds and he still kept coming at them so they had no choice.

I still don’t understand why the guy had to die, if the police had time to use baton rounds then they had time to wound and not kill. They should carry tranqualiser darts for situations like that and have the clear choice shoot to kill or shoot to stop, if the time to make such a decision is available? :confused: :frowning:

When you are placed in a situation whereby some-one is intent to harm, then it is the Polices’ responsibility to protect the public and themselves.

After this individual failed to stop his attack and in my opinion the Police had tried to stop him with baton rounds, then they used the last resort.

During my military career it was drummed into us…use the minimum use of force to achieve the oblective…ie to protect yourself or those your are there to protect… if it meant shooting someone then that is what you have to do…

This is not Holywood guys…it was a real situation…the Police ought to be commended here not dragged before the courts on a murder charge…
But then again if the Police had to retrieve half a dozen dead bodies from wrecked vehicles of decapitated bodies from a mad swordsman then they still get it in the neck for not stopping him sooner…

I used to give talks to cadets on the danger of carry an air pistol…from 20yds COULD YOU TELL THE DIFFERNCE FROM AN AIR PISTOL OR A REAL GUN ■■ (caps on for effect) i know the answer from everyone is no !! well thats the position the police and Armed Forces find themselves in and have to make a split second decision…

My decision would be to shoot !! Why,■■ Because i want to come home to my family…
You are not taught to shoot to injure…looks good in the movies…hit him in leg and he stops…in real life, while he is still alive he is still a threat !!

Logistics Loader, the points you make are very valid and I understand that in that situation you have to make decisions on the hoof.

I will be the first to admit I am not qualified, I have never been in that position and I hope I never am, so am happy to bow to greater minds, however I am still not convinced that there are no alternatives available ‘in some cases’ :confused: :frowning:

Tranquiliser Darts■■? Oh Puhlease, they take time to take effect, what dosage do you use, is the person on drugs and will they interact with the tranquiliser, if the guy is on PCP he could take half a dozen hits from Baton Rounds and still come at you.
It’s probably safer to try to disarm a gunman than someone with a sword.
While I despise the fact that someone has died, and some poor bloody Plod has had to pull the trigger, there was an easy answer, when told to put the weapon down by an armed officer, put it down or take the chance of dying. Simple isn’t it.
There is also the possibility of suicide by Police marksman.

Dratsabasti:
Tranquiliser Darts■■? Oh Puhlease, they take time to take effect, what dosage do you use, is the person on drugs and will they interact with the tranquiliser, if the guy is on PCP he could take half a dozen hits from Baton Rounds and still come at you.
It’s probably safer to try to disarm a gunman than someone with a sword.
While I despise the fact that someone has died, and some poor bloody Plod has had to pull the trigger, there was an easy answer, when told to put the weapon down by an armed officer, put it down or take the chance of dying. Simple isn’t it.
There is also the possibility of suicide by Police marksman.

Fair enough!, message to self ‘get a dose of reality’ and sit quietly in corner. :blush:

I used to give talks to cadets on the danger of carry an air pistol…from 20yds COULD YOU TELL THE DIFFERNCE FROM AN AIR PISTOL OR A REAL GUN ■■

Can you tell the difference between a Gun and a Sword? or a knife as reported earlier.

Thank Christ, we dont allow plod to carry guns.

A few on here know me, I am 6"6 in my socks!

If a mad guy is running at me with a Sword, even a Wet kipper and I had a gun I would use it!

Too many coppers have been killed, by nutters one way or the other! The police are like us, indeed we as truckers lose our lives statistically much more often in our duty than Bobbies do, and no doubt meet more nutters.

But if someone is running at you with something, what looks like may hurt you, and you have a gun 99 times out of 100 you would use it, and quite right too.

If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

Humberside Police have issued a statement saying it is the first time they have shot anyone in error. (So thats ok then! :open_mouth:

THE question is a very hard one to answer as you have to be there and part of the situation it is all right, when we who are sat on our backsides
at home orin a lorry or cafe and hear second or third hand what has
happened, the word springs straight away to mind what people will say ,
WHAT IF; WHAT IF THIS, we will just have to wait and see what comes
to light after the incedent has been investigated and the report will be
used to state the why,s and wherefores.

BUT. here are a few points people may pause to think about,
1.when did the marksman last do any shooting practise
2.when was his rifle last checked fired to prove the point of aim
3.what were the light,and weather conditions like at the time
4.what if any information was known about the person-ie drugs,mental
disorders, etc
5.what had he tryed to do that made the police belive he was such a
dangerous risk
6.how much time did the policemarksman have in which to act
these are thoughts that people should consider as when you have to
act to protect some one its all ways sods law that you will be the
guilty one, ALL i CAN SAY THANK HEAVENS THAT I WAS NOT THE
POOR MARKSMAN;

If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

Sorry, but this only happens in Hollywood.

Before the decision would have been made to open fire, many barriers would have been crossed. Once the decision has been made, you aim for the centre of mass. This is done for two reasons:

  1. To ensure the target is stopped.
  2. To ensure the bullet does not miss. A bullet missing a knee would ricochet off the ground and could hit some other poor unfortunate.

I feel sorry for the police officer who had to make that decision, if the words “ARMED POLICE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON” are not enough to shake someone into reality then what will. I am sure that if I was ever to hear those words someone would get my full attention.

What about the Tazor guns they use in the States■■?

I’m sure a couple of hits of however many volts would have brought the guy to his knees.

I believe these are already being tested in some parts of the UK.

For the record I have no problem with what the Police did, if you walk around with a sword you can expect trouble. :confused:

What about the Tazor guns they use in the States■■?

Good Idea But:

The civil liberties groups don’t want them issued to the police because in rare cases it could cause serious harm to people fitted with a pace maker or suffering from other heart defects.

For the record I’ m being ironic.

Wheel Nut:
Loony or not, A gun against a sword is not fair.

So then what do they do if he’s running at them looking as if he’s about to takle a swipe at them?

GET REAL. At the end of the day he was a nutjob with a lethal weapon. Humberside Police don’t shoot people every day. In fact it is the first time they ever have.

CM:

Conor:
I still don’t understand why the guy had to die, if the police had time to use baton rounds then they had time to wound and not kill. They should carry tranqualiser darts for situations like that and have the clear choice shoot to kill or shoot to stop, if the time to make such a decision is available? :confused: :frowning:

  1. Its not Counterstrike/Doom3/Far Cry, <insert favourite 3D shooter game>. It doesn’t take several shots to deplete your health before you die. One bullet is usually enough. Once they enter the body, they ricochet off bones and cause one hell of a mess.

  2. They shot him twice with a baton round. Most people don’t get up after the first one. Its a massive lump of very hard rubber that hits you very hard… Only nutjobs and those on crack get up after two.

  3. Tranquilisers take time to take effect. As well as that, how do you know the person isn’t allergic to them? In addition to that, even dentists are not allowed to put someone to sleep unless there is a full resuscitation team on standby due to the high number of people who go into cardiac arrest.

So…taking all the above into account, what do you do when a maniac is charging you with a sword? I guess you’d just sit there and let him hack you to bits.

Wheel Nut:
If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Here’s a statement from someone who has never used a rifle/pistol.

Conor:

Wheel Nut:
If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Here’s a statement from someone who has never used a rifle/pistol.

You are right conor.

But I have seen 2 people shot by over ambitious coppers.

I stand by my first post.

Thank Christ, plod doesnt carry guns