A63 @ Hull today

[guy_rope]

It was state sanctioned murder, this is not the first time police have shot someone when other action could have been taken, remember the man with the chair leg in london, the man who was stark naked in a drugs raid and shot dead.

As to the comments on marksmenship I am a licenced gun holder and any PROPERLY trained so called police “marksman” should have the talent to incapacitate a man sized target at 25/35 yards.

Its a good job they were not in Northen Ireland in the late 6os early 70s you would not have been able to move for corpses.

If our Brave boys were routinlet armed I dread to think of the consequences.

[marcustandy]

“He who lives by the sword dies by the sword!”

…except in East Yorkshire where it’s a gun, but you know what I mean.

I’m afraid if you ‘cross the line’ you have left yourself open to the consequences, however severe they may seem be.

The flak the police are getting now would be absolutely nothing compared to if he had managed to kill some one on either that occaision or later on in the future.

How quick are the public & authorities to jump on their case if they ever under-react i.e. Ian Huntley (Soham muders)■■

I’m glad he’s (looney) been shot because that’s one less nutter to worry about next time I visit home (York) on the overnight ferry to Hull and drive along that road with my wife and two young kids in the car.

[wheel_nut]

What is with these blokes and swords?

The police in Spondon Derby have just removed a bloke from a flat who was weilding a sword at people.

Mind you they havent killed him with a gun He is in hospital now

[brit_pete]

WHEELNUT; LETS wait and see what the investigation brings to light
before making a unqualified response, the point is there are loads of
reasons that I could put down here now on paper as to way but may be
this fact will help you to have a open mind.

IN the USA the colt.45 automatic was built because the “” MORO,s""
in the phillipeins could not be stopped when shot by a lower calibre
round. as they where out of there minds with drugs etc,

[rikki-uk]

As to the comments on marksmenship I am a licenced gun holder and any PROPERLY trained so called police “marksman” should have the talent to incapacitate a man sized target at 25/35 yards

Only in films.

Any one who is firearmed trained to use in any situation other than shooting at non lethal paper targets will tell you that you are trained to shoot at the largest area of body mass. it is far easier to miss a target than hit it and taking out the knee of a moving target would be difficult and dangerous to other people, a missed round will travel up to a mile, how many innocent people could it hit on the way?.

What ever the rights or wrongs of the decision to open fire are,. once the decision is taken to use lethel force it has to be applied in the manner that creates the least danger to the public and other officers, a shot to the body mass is the safest option, the safest option for the person who was holding the sword is

• not to carry it
• Not to threaten others with it
• when warned to put it down, to do so

I am sorry that he was shot, but no-one forced him to carry a potentaily lethal weapon and threaten others with it.

The responsibility for his death lies in his own hands.

[guy_rope]

I was firearmed trained in the army. and i stand by what i have said, any one who is rated marksman, as I was, should be able with the single shot semi-automatic Heckler and Koch which is standard police issue to hit someone in the legs from at LEAST the distance I mentioned, and another thing, on these mails people do make assumptions, i have shot at more than paper targets and its not something I am proud of or wish to go into more detail about. lets hope some of these writers never meet one of these gun toting thugs that pass for police and gets shot because "I thoght the tyre lever he was carrying was a gun ".

[marcustandy]

Guy Rope:
I was firearmed trained in the army. and i stand by what i have said, any one who is rated marksman, as I was, should be able with the single shot … to hit someone in the legs from at LEAST the distance I mentioned,

So when, on an APWT or any other Skill At Arms training were you taught to shoot at anything other than the body mass of the Figure 11 or Figure 12’s??

Assuming you were in the top 1% of your Btn/Corps or a Bisley winner, you may have then had the chance to get on a Sniper Course. Not even then would you have been taught to shoot at individual limbs, however near or far your target aquisition was.

Guy Rope:
and another thing, on these mails people do make assumptions, i have shot at more than paper targets … or wish to go into more detail about.

Do you remember a thread on here a while ago entitled 'How many ex/MoD on here?" Do you recall the number of replies and just how many users of this DB were/are MoD?? I don’t think there are too many assumptions being made; I would say there are a lot of opinions being made from personal experience by people who also don’t wish to go into more detail.

Suffice to say, trust me, I know what i’m on about!

This was E. Yorks, not Hollywood.

[rikki-uk]

should be able with the single shot semi-automatic Heckler and Koch

Its not a shot I would like to make wth a 7.62 or 303 rifle with a scope, never mind a semi automatic designed for close quarter suppression fire…

I dont know what army taught you to fire at anything apart from the main body mass, but it certainly wasnt the British Army

have shot at more than paper targets

What makes you think that you are unique in that regard on these boards??

and did you aim for their kneecaps??

[brit_pete]

I do not wish to start a slanging match over this post,but unless you particapated in working with certain agencys then your so called
training was like many of us no where up to the requirement that you
would be 100% sure that you hit what you shot, only the few would becapable and these do not even think of particapateing in trying to
bring some one else into disrepute,AND was you there no so the answer
is leave it until the investigation is ENDED; AND marksman is not all
ways marksman,

[jessicas_dad]

on the radio today made me laugh his parents said he was a kind charity worker.

[wiretwister]

Sad that the guy died? For his family without doubt. But has anyone considered the possibility that this may be a case of suicide by proxy? Plainly the guy was not in the mind set any of would recognise as “normal”. I doubt anyone involved is dancing a jig of joy so let the inquiry do it job before rushing to condemn anyone as loony or murderer.

[antony]

anyone who is in a position to take a life should expect to have there life taken
softly softly don’t work . take a look at this link nutters on a new level they are not throwing brick off bridges some little [zb] is now shooting at us.
irishtrucker.com/news/2005/march/2403053.asp

If it needs doctoring, it’s not allowed. L.

[pat_hasler]

If the guy (looney or not) wandered around brandishing a sword he had to face the concequeces. Have we all forgotten what happened in a certain nursary school in Scotland some years back He took the chance and died for it.

[guy_rope]

I dont know about the rest of you but if I see teens on a overbridge, i am starting to flinch back in the seat a bit,

[eddie_snax]

Guy Rope:
I dont know about the rest of you but if I see teens on a overbridge, i am starting to flinch back in the seat a bit,

Me to, there was a driver killed on the M3 a couple of years ago, when some youths threw a brick or something like that from a foot bridge. Nutters

[drawbardaz]

Wheel Nut:
If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

Humberside Police have issued a statement saying it is the first time they have shot anyone in error. (So thats ok then!

you must be a good shot Wheel Nut !

[mart]

Just to put another spin on it, if the police attending this incident had not been armed and they were confronted with an attacker with a weapon and that attacker managed to kill a police officer would the same people that have said words to the effect of thank goodness we don’t have all plod carrying guns be asking why armed police weren’t present at the incident?

If the armed police had decided to try and shot to ■■■■■■■, ie, shoot him in the knee and missed, and that stray round went on to hit and kill and innocent bystander/motorist/trucker would people be asking why on earth did the police take a “potshot” at a moving limb why did they not aim at the body mass that they are almost guarenteed to hit from that range?

Just looking from the other side.

[wheel_nut]

english_jock:

Wheel Nut:
If a guy is carrying a sword and coming towards you, If you have a gun, a shattered knee will stop him running.

Humberside Police have issued a statement saying it is the first time they have shot anyone in error. (So thats ok then!

you must be a good shot Wheel Nut !

I dont profess to be a good shot, you made that assumption.

I am not a police marksman, trained to react in difficult circumstances. I also know that the armed response unit was called to the area, giving at least 20 minutes to assess the situation by the police on the ground.

My point was, thank christ we dont allow plod to carry guns. and to compare it to America, with every school kid armed to the teeth because he didnt like his homework

[jonah_1]

I would like to put a different perspective.

I presume this man was shot because he did not do as requested by the police.

I can tell you of an incident where a man was running towards an armed police officer who was joined by 2 collegues, All three officers were carrying Mp5’s which were pointed at the man and were shouting warnings at the man.

But the man did not obey what they were saying

The difference is this man was not shot.

This man was me and I was in Spain and couldn’t understand a word they were saying

[jonah_1]

In my opinion I would say that if this bloke was going do lally with a sword then it was right he was shot.
There is no point trying to maim sombody like that as ;

It probably wont stop him 'coz of the adrenalin/drugs
if you miss you could hit an innocent bystander
if you dont miss and you do ■■■■■■■ him then he will turn round and sue anyway.

But in this particular case there is a whiff of sea creature in the air

How is it that he was first reported to the police just after 06.00 for

newspaper:
driving along the A63 at 60 mph with his headlights on full beam

He then crashed his van at the little chef 20 mins later

If he had been doing 60 mph for 20 mins he would have been on the M62 by then

Inspector Steve Page said::
"About 6.20am this morning police were called to the A63 in East Yorkshire to a report of a van driving the wrong way down the east bound carriageway west of Welton

At this point it is a traffic violation

Inspector Steve Page said::
"Armed response officers were dispatched to the scene.

If the first the police knew he was “armed” was when he crashed how come there was already an A.R.V there to shoot him with the baton rounds?

What is a sword type weapon eitherr it was a sword or it wasnt

Inspector Steve Page said::
Although police would not reveal any further details, the armed response unit is only usually dispatched if officers receive information a suspect could be armed and dangerous.

So how could they have known about the weapon before he crashed and got out of the vehicle

There have been a couple of incidents with the police and armed response units to hit the headlines

The first most famous would be the man shot whilst carrying a chair leg because he was “turning to face/point the weapon at them”

I’m sorry but if sombody shouts at me from behind the first thing I would do is turn around to see what the fuss was about

The second was an incident where a lad (I think he was 18 or 19) left a supermarket after buying some ■■■■ he got in his car ,then a police car (A.R.V) pulls alongside him & asks him to switch off the engine but he is in a stolen car so tries to drive off but a courier van blocks him in, He is now trapped with nowhere to go as there are vehicles on 3 sides of him.

The armed officer now gets out of his vehicle and promtly shoots him dead through the windscreen of the stolen car.

This last case the officer was charged with murder by the C.P.S and taken to court the first trial was stopped (cant remember why) and a second trial was held The first trial had loads of publicity as did the second but there was never any publicity of the verdict

I’m wondering if he was found guilty and the pulicity was blocked to protect his identity in prison?

Having said all that there was the case a couple of xmas’es ago when some loon went ape with a sword in a church just up the road from me.

I’m just glad the spanish police showed a bit of restraint and all I had in my hand was a C.M.R