As someone who is looking to start out as an owner driver i am a slighty put off by some of the negative posts regarding companies and how much they pay,
If i was to set up with a unit brought and paid for and have say my tax and insurance paid out right for the year, would it be fair to say that working for someone like Hanbury or Maritime for £1.10ish a mile be ok? taking into account that i have £5000-£7000 cash in the bank?
Are the negative comments made by O/D who have hefty finance on nice new trucks and mortgages that are in the £200k+ bracket and need to earn £40000 a year to survive after running costs?
I am not looking for people to have a go at me, I understand the running costs of going it alone, but obviously everyones situation is different, I have a very small mortgage and i make £30000 a year driving for Widdowsons, but if i can make the same doing it alone surely it must be worth a go, maybe £1.10 a mile on a truck that is paid for works as i am not expecting to make mega money .
I value any comments and i apologise if i sound ignorant,or arrogant.
Don’t forget that even if the truck is paid for, you’ve got to allow for depreciation and the purchase of the next truck, either by putting aside an amount each week towards its purchase, or just going down the HP/contract/lease hire route.
I used to subby for HD, they used to garantee 1500 miles per week, loaded and empty, don’t know if they still do this though, as back then the reality was more like 1800-2000 miles per week as I was on the CP contract which has long gone.
With a unit on full contract hire at £235 per week, full usage about £750-£950 per week, insurance at £55 it gave me a half decent wage without any hassle. I had my own skelly to.
Payment was always on the nail, but they were a bit fussy on the POD’s being returned correctly.
you need to consider the standing costs first budge, i.e what it’s going to cost you per week/month regardless of the amount of miles you do, that figure can obviously vary quite a bit based on what wagon your intending to run, nearly new with plenty of finance/ old 'n with next to no finance etc. then calculate your running costs, 2000 mile per week @ £1.12 is very different to 1500 mile a week @ the same rate, wether you can find a box firm etc that’ll garauntee a mileage rate and still give you 2000 miles worth of work is a different thing!
personally knowing what i know now after four years at the job i wouldn’t even consider working for anyone on that sort of setup or those sort of rates, whats the point in taking all the risks financially and then having someone dictate to you what your going to earn?
ultimately the only way to really make it pay is to have a few reliable local costomers of your own plus someone you can use when things are quiet as bread n butter money, that dosn’t happen overnight it takes a bit of time to get yourself known but once your in that position, to be honest £1.12 a mile seems like a joke!
you mention a small mortgage etc but really thats neither here nor there, the job either pays or it don’t, you need a good wage which is obviously more than you can get working for a firm plus profit on a weekly basis then at the end of the year if you’ve been lucky enough to not of had that breakdown in the middle of nowhere thats cost you an arm and a leg and put the wagon off the road for a week etc then that profit might still be sat in the bank and allow you to pump a bit back in, a newer unit, better trailer etc, looking at the job based purely on earning a wage but “being your own boss” is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
there is, as with all businesses a certain amount of gamble involved, your investing fairly large amounts of money without any garauntees of future income and it’s certainly not for the faint hearted.
paul b:
you mention a small mortgage etc but really thats neither here nor there, the job either pays or it don’t,
Exactly right, I think new o/d’s must learn the difference between their money and the businesses. It took me a while to get my head around it.
Apart from the excellent advice you’ve recieved so far, all I will say is that if your unit is paid already for then perhaps it is a little elderly? It might not be, I am assuming. If it is quite old, I’d make sure it is up to running big distances week-in and week-out as breakdowns and repair bills could break you.
I would say you need a trouble free first 6-9months to get you started and up on your feet. Decent cashflow and reliablilty in the eyes of your customer will be your first objectives, along with making a wage.
Denis F:
another question would be if container haulage is so profitable why do the companies use a lot of subbies, why not do it themselves
I do often wonder this myself, but then i guess if the money was that poor and they
weren’t making anything they wouldn’t be doing it would threy?
The only reason i chose containers was it seemed the easiest thing to get into as a newbie O/D, I live 2 minutes away from Bardon quarry and Cliff Hill is round the corner from that ,and i suppose i could go into that but i’ve done tipper work and it didn’t suit me at all.
My brains in my head and not in my right boot anyway…
hammer:
Apart from the excellent advice you’ve recieved so far, all I will say is that if your unit is paid already for then perhaps it is a little elderly? It might not be, I am assuming. If it is quite old, I’d make sure it is up to running big distances week-in and week-out as breakdowns and repair bills could break you.
i don’t have a wagon yet i’m still in the process of thinking what to have, I have about £15000 to spend on the unit, i know were not looking at a great deal for this kind of money but hey you’ve got to start small right?
I was thinking along the lines of an XF95 430, or a 124 420 scania , if i go the scania route i can put the wagon through Widdowsons garage for servcing and inspection and what have you for a nice discounted price.
Budge:
I’m sorry to sound stupid but as i am sure quite a few of you are O/D’s how do you manage to make your money?
How do any off you rate some of these websites that offer loads and backloads at the click of a button? is it something worth looking at?
i would be grateful for some recommendations on vehicle type also…
making money is pretty straight forward, do 1500+ mile a week at an average of £1.50+ per mile and your easily making it pay, it’s as simple as that and theres a hell of a lot of work about at that sort of money and better but nobody is going to pay you that whilst at the same time garaunteeing you a full weeks work and a minimum mileage.
how does anyone make it pay @ £1.12 a mile legally? i havn’t a clue, i certainly couldn’t!
in my experience the load sites are just a lead, half a day on the phone and your talking direct to the firms handing out the work! a lot who post loads do so because they’re stuck with em and if you stick to your guns those loads can be a good earner, done plenty of round trips around the 500 mile mark for good rates from firms i’ve found on the web but of coarse the ball breaker is, you’ve gotta get paid, anyone can agree to give you a good rate if all the time they’ve no intention of actually paying for the job!
as for the wagon? that obviously depends on what your going to be doing, if your down the road 5 nights a week you want a big cab if your only doing the odd night out anything will do, the thing is you get the same rate for the job no matter what your driving but reliability is everything, i’ve done the cheap wagon bought for cash bit and then spent a hell of a lot to keep em on the road as well as loosing a lot of work whilst they’ve been sat over a pit.
you pays yer money and hope for the best.
Budge:
I’m sorry to sound stupid but as i am sure quite a few of you are O/D’s how do you manage to make your money?
How do any off you rate some of these websites that offer loads and backloads at the click of a button? is it something worth looking at?
i would be grateful for some recommendations on vehicle type also…
making money is pretty straight forward, do 1500+ mile a week at an average of £1.50+ per mile and your easily making it pay, it’s as simple as that and theres a hell of a lot of work about at that sort of money and better but nobody is going to pay you that whilst at the same time garaunteeing you a full weeks work and a minimum mileage.
how does anyone make it pay @ £1.12 a mile legally? i havn’t a clue, i certainly couldn’t!
in my experience the load sites are just a lead, half a day on the phone and your talking direct to the firms handing out the work! a lot who post loads do so because they’re stuck with em and if you stick to your guns those loads can be a good earner, done plenty of round trips around the 500 mile mark for good rates from firms i’ve found on the web but of coarse the ball breaker is, you’ve gotta get paid, anyone can agree to give you a good rate if all the time they’ve no intention of actually paying for the job!
as for the wagon? that obviously depends on what your going to be doing, if your down the road 5 nights a week you want a big cab if your only doing the odd night out anything will do, the thing is you get the same rate for the job no matter what your driving but reliability is everything, i’ve done the cheap wagon bought for cash bit and then spent a hell of a lot to keep em on the road as well as loosing a lot of work whilst they’ve been sat over a pit.
you pays yer money and hope for the best.
Splendid, thank you very much for that “to the point” and very helpful piece of advice. So its just a matter of looking hard and trying to find the best rates, pretty obvious really i suppose.I’m tramping 4-5 nights at the minute anyway , family used to it so thats not a problem, would be looking for a big cab maybe Super Space or Topline, always fancied a V8 Scani but am sure there top money.
Innovate are taking over the Nestle warehouse at Bardon soon, I think they use some owner drivers. The work would be clean and tidy. You could try there as it’s local to you and the rates might be better than containers.
Silver_Surfer:
Innovate are taking over the Nestle warehouse at Bardon soon, I think they use some owner drivers. The work would be clean and tidy. You could try there as it’s local to you and the rates might be better than containers.
Would Widdowsons not take you on as an O/D?
thanks for that, i had heard a rumour someone was taking it over.
No widdowsons are not really into subbing there work ouot , which is a shame as i know they have some really well paying customers.
I suppose its worth a try asking though… can’t hurt.
At the end of the day, if you ignore several of the top costs of running a vehicle, you’re obviously much more likely to make decent money out of it!
Assuming you’re doing 1500 miles per week at £1.12 per mile for 48 weeks of the year you’re going to have a turnover of about 80k each year.
If your truck averages 8mpg and fuel is 85ppl then you’re going to be spending about 35k on fuel.
You want an income of about 30k.
That leaves 15k to cover everything else. What this has to cover depends on the truck you’re buying. Tyres will be one thing you need to factor in regardless. If you’ve bought an older unit you’ll also need to factor in the cost of your 6 weekly servicing and annual MOT, plus some of this will need to be put to one side for the inevitable repairs it’ll need. If you’ve bought something newer with full R&M then this will be less of a concern.
I’m sure there’s loads more I’ve missed too (I’m not an OD myself so there’s bounds to be stuff).
Plus you do, of course, have to factor in the fact that whatever truck you’ve bought is inevitably going to need replacing at some point - perhaps in only a year or so if it’s something cheap and old, and you’ll need some money for next year’s tax and insurance.
So in summary - you could probably make it pay but basing a business model on the assumption that several of your biggest costs are somehow paid for you is a recipe for a short lived business as I would struggle to see how you could keep a truck on the road, tyred, serviced, repaired and insured for 15k/year when you’re doing that kind of mileage.
budge i echo paul b,s reply. I have been an owner driver for 9 years and the first thing I would say is, too many people live the dream instead of preparing for REALITY. here are some pointers that hopefully will help you.
firstly before even thinking about buying a truck GET ORGANIZED. you will not be a truck driver anymore you will be RUNNING A BUSINESS and al that goes with it. one customer to start is ok but find others ASAP you can never have enough sources of income. WAGES forget it, other than pocket money every penny you make must be reinvested in your business. VOSA make him your best friend not your enemy, play legal and stay legal, get sorted for HMRC, VAT, N.I. cont and an understanding bank manager. like the rest of us you will have good and bad months. buy the best truck for what you can afford WHATEVER THE MAKE take one of widdowsons mechanics with you to check it out. the backload sites are ok but the rates are genrally lower because they have to get thier cut. at this point i say again find more customers if you can.
its impossible to tell you about rates because £ 1.12 may be okay for one job but absolute rubbish for another. you will instictively get a feel for good/ bad rates as you go on plus your bank statements will soon tell you if your working for bad rates. heres the single most important word about bieng an owner driver CASHFLOW, this will make your business work or at worst bankrupt you.
payments!!! I have one customer on 60 days end of month, all the rest are 30 days no excuses, you could factor your invoices but it can be costly. remember
as my footnote says CASH IS KING CREDIT IS A KILLER. if you can get someone else to drive at nights and or weekends every penny is vital when you start out. there is a multitude of pitfalls but i would be here all day my best
advice is remember its a business and not a dream and forget making serious money for a start and concentrate on building relationships with as many customers as you can find, reinvest as much as possible, keep your truck well maintained all you need after that is a big slice of good luck.
finally GO FOR IT but do it carefully and dont be afraid to ask for advice.
weewulliewinkie:
budge i echo paul b,s reply. I have been an owner driver for 9 years and the first thing I would say is, too many people live the dream instead of preparing for REALITY. here are some pointers that hopefully will help you.
firstly before even thinking about buying a truck GET ORGANIZED. you will not be a truck driver anymore you will be RUNNING A BUSINESS and al that goes with it. one customer to start is ok but find others ASAP you can never have enough sources of income. WAGES forget it, other than pocket money every penny you make must be reinvested in your business. VOSA make him your best friend not your enemy, play legal and stay legal, get sorted for HMRC, VAT, N.I. cont and an understanding bank manager. like the rest of us you will have good and bad months. buy the best truck for what you can afford WHATEVER THE MAKE take one of widdowsons mechanics with you to check it out. the backload sites are ok but the rates are genrally lower because they have to get thier cut. at this point i say again find more customers if you can.
its impossible to tell you about rates because £ 1.12 may be okay for one job but absolute rubbish for another. you will instictively get a feel for good/ bad rates as you go on plus your bank statements will soon tell you if your working for bad rates. heres the single most important word about bieng an owner driver CASHFLOW, this will make your business work or at worst bankrupt you.
payments!!! I have one customer on 60 days end of month, all the rest are 30 days no excuses, you could factor your invoices but it can be costly. remember
as my footnote says CASH IS KING CREDIT IS A KILLER. if you can get someone else to drive at nights and or weekends every penny is vital when you start out. there is a multitude of pitfalls but i would be here all day my best
advice is remember its a business and not a dream and forget making serious money for a start and concentrate on building relationships with as many customers as you can find, reinvest as much as possible, keep your truck well maintained all you need after that is a big slice of good luck.
finally GO FOR IT but do it carefully and dont be afraid to ask for advice.
A lot for me to take in but thank you for the advice.
If you’re on £30,000 a year at the moment you’re not likely (although not impossible) to match (or even get close) for a good couple of years when you have established yourself and got your own customer base.
Or you may get “lucky” and be in the right place at the right time talking to the right person (but this isn’t much of a buisiness plan.)
Jonah 1:
If you’re on £30,000 a year at the moment you’re not likely (although not impossible) to match (or even get close) for a good couple of years when you have established yourself and got your own customer base.
Or you may get “lucky” and be in the right place at the right time talking to the right person (but this isn’t much of a buisiness plan.)
As we are quite lucky to not need £30000 to live on ,i can afford to take a cut anyway, I know this doesn’t make it easier but i suppose not needing to earn that for household bills and what have is one less thing to worry about.
I’m hoping to have a word with one of the top managers at widds to see if i can A: use there yard as an operating center B: Put my truck through there garage on site for servicing and C: to see if they will give me any work… some of there CAT work will be nice as i know this pays a stupid amount of money for running machines to the docks, and the chance of a back load is there to…!!!
Budge:
As we are quite lucky to not need £30000 to live on ,i can afford to take a cut anyway, I know this doesn’t make it easier but i suppose not needing to earn that for household bills and what have is one less thing to worry about.
I’m hoping to have a word with one of the top managers at widds to see if i can A: use there yard as an operating center B: Put my truck through there garage on site for servicing and C: to see if they will give me any work… some of there CAT work will be nice as i know this pays a stupid amount of money for running machines to the docks, and the chance of a back load is there to…!!!
You can tell me to mind my own business and I admit to having NO knowledge of the firm ‘widds’ but it seems to me that you would be putting yourself in a bad position. The expression “all your eggs in one basket” spring to mind.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to be in a position where I might be in a dispute over a load or payment with the firm who are then going to look at my truck and then give me a bill for work carried out. It would be too easy for them to screw the cash straight back out of you.
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