Zac_A
I understand determinism to be the belief that everything is following the laws of physics or science,whatever but that takes away any freedom of choice because it would make us all robots without any blame for anything we might do wrong.
It seems there are those who believe this is the way things are.
If the neurones are just following the laws of science,how do you make the jump from that to a whole organism having freedom of choice?
That is the big question you will never have an answer to,as an atheist
I suppose you could even illustrate the problem as a number system,cant remember what they were called when you have atatement n+1 =something.So,you start with an organism with 4 neutrones.12 connections,then the next highest organism has 12 neutrones but 3* as many connections but the constant would be lack of conscience or awareness,we could call this value C,and then formulate a statement 2n=n+1 +3c+N*C.or something like that.The formula must hold true between any two steps.
So the zero can be multiplied billions of times but it still remains zero
Hmmm suddenly Sploomy’s an amateur scientist and a mathematician, illustrating a higher level of education than usual.
He’s never showed these traits or talents before on here.
So why do I think this ain’t coming directly from him. 
,.and what exactly is his motive here?
Am I on to him, or am I just being even more cynical and non trusting than I normally am. 
Sploom:
Zac_A
I understand determinism to be the belief that everything is following the laws of physics or science,whatever but that takes away any freedom of choice because it would make us all robots without any blame for anything we might do wrong.
That’s nothing at all like it’s proper definition - from britannica.com/topic/determinism
determinism, in philosophy and science, the thesis that all events in the universe, including human decisions and actions, are causally inevitable. Determinism entails that, in a situation in which a person makes a certain decision or performs a certain action, it is impossible that he or she could have made any other decision or performed any other action. In other words, it is never true that people could have decided or acted otherwise than they actually did.
See, it’s not that we are “robots”, but that all results are causally inevitable, as in, it is all pre-determined no matter what action we take.
Sploom:
If the neurones are just following the laws of science,how do you make the jump from that to a whole organism having freedom of choice?
Ask Anil Seth, who I’ve mentioned several times before, he’s one of the top exponents in a very complex field of research. Personally I don’t have a massive problem hypothesizing that what we call consiousness may very well be a natural consequence of infinitely complex networks.
Sploom:
That is the big question you will never have an answer to,as an atheist
What? And your resort to fantasy Sky Pixies is “an answer”? 
You may as well quote a belief in Leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, Unicorns, Minotaurs, or even the ravenous Bug-Blatter Beast of Traal, it’s all fantasy to the rational people here.
robroy:
Hmmm suddenly Sploomy’s an amateur scientist and a mathematician, illustrating a higher level of education than usual.
He’s never showed these traits or talents before on here.So why do I think this ain’t coming directly from him.
That was my view, his language has departed significantly from his usual stance, leading me to hypothesize that one of his “Elders” it giving him his content - the sudden use of mathematical notation for large numbers being the most obvious sign. If he had retained some knowledge of OU level Engineering studies, why was that knowledge not apparent before? Denying scientific knowledge must surely go hand in hand with denying other STEM subject knowledge, such as engineering.
EDIT: I’m struggling to find “neutrone” in any science reference…
What I can’t decide is if that mistake came from the Elder(s) providing the content, or if Sploomy just wrote it down wrongly after an in-person conversation with one of them.
Robroy.
I did do level one and two of an OU maths/eng degree but it was quite some years ago and if you dont use mathematics,you soon forget it.The subject never came up before .I did have a fascination with numbers but,like I said,degree level sciences ,maths,its very hard to do unless you dont have any other commitements.But,no I havent asked the elders about this…
I just had the idea of using a little math to prove that big numbers ,on their own,just dont cut it when you are struggling to understand human conscience mystery
@Zac…or anybody else for that matter.
The fact that he even uses the phrase ‘The Elders’, let alone that they actually exist, AND that he consults them for guidance in his life, just about says it all really.
That type of behaviour in this century is NOT normal under any circumstances .
Will you stop talking aboit me as if I wasn’t here !
Anyway,I quite liked this number trick
Sploomy consulting his Elders, or Tom Cruise’s belief in Space Lizards, all equally suspect in my book
Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey your elders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
Sploom:
Will you stop talking aboit me as if I wasn’t here !Anyway,I quite liked this number trick
How tf did I know you were there, we both posted at the same time you chump.
Anyhoo …after reading all that cack you have just proven and confirmed, that we have even less in common than I first thought.
Maths has never been my forte.
In fact I was so bad at it at school, that my maths teacher used to just get rid of me, but still fulfill his numerical teaching duties by sending me out to count the school railings.
English Language and History was more my thing, …So I suppose I’m fully qualified to be the authour of an history book written in an intellectually grammatical style.
Hey…you should exchange address details with Winseer, you are even more alike than I first thought.
Sploom:
Hebrews 13:1717 Obey your elders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
Give it a rest…no one cares. 
I liked history too.
I know an app you might like.Its called old maps,free on the playstore.It goes back uo to 500 years ago and you will be surprised,some of the places you know existed all that time back
Balance
God was missing for 6 days. Eventually, Michael, the Archangel, found him, resting on the seventh day. He inquired, “Where have you been?" God smiled deeply and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, “Look, Michael, see what I’ve made.” Archangel Michael looked puzzled, and said, “What is it?”" It’s a planet", replied God, “and I’ve put life on it”. “I’m going to call it Earth and it’s going to be a place to test Balance.”" Balance?“, inquired Michael, “I’m still confused.” God explained, pointing to different parts of Earth. “For example, northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while southern Europe will be poor. Over here I’ve placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things.” God continued pointing to different countries. “This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice. "The Archangel, impressed by God’s work, then pointed to a another land mass and said,
“What’s that one?” “That’s Australia, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful trees and gardens, a beautiful river and days filled with sunshine. The people from Australia are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent and humorous and they are going to travel the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, carriers of peace, and producers of good things.” Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, "
But what about that balance, God? You said there would be balance everywhere." God smiled, “
Sometime later I will create a place called Canberra. Wait till you see the idiots I’ll put there."
If Sploom was right, Robroy would have been Australian. 
This is a question for Sploomy:-
The USA Christian evangelists support the Zionist Genocide in Palestine as they believe this portends the next coming of the Messiah - Fuhrer - Mashiach
Do you and your elders support the Zionist genocide & Ethnic cleansing in Palestine ■■
No doubt he won’t be allowed to comment until he’s gotten permission from his “Elders”, but on the basis that Sploomy and his mates insist on literal interpretations, then he has to support what is happening over there.
Isiah 14:29-30 is all about Palestine, or as they called it back then, Philistia
“29 People of Philistia, the rod that beat you is broken, but you have no reason to be glad. When one snake dies, a worse one comes in its place. A snake’s egg hatches a flying dragon. 30 The Lord will be a shepherd to the poor of his people and will let them live in safety. But he will send a terrible famine on you Philistines, and it will not leave any of you alive.”
and
Jeremiah 47:4
For the day has come to destroy all the Philistines and to remove all survivors who could help Tyre and Sidon. The LORD is about to destroy the Philistines, the remnant from the coasts of Caphtor.
and
Ezekiel 25:16
Therefore, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will raise my fist of judgment against the land of the Philistines. I will wipe out the Kerethites and utterly destroy the people who live by the sea.
“Utterly destroy” seems to be Benjamin Netanyahu’s basic plan, his own version of a “final solution” you could argue.
Zac_A:
No doubt he won’t be allowed to comment until he’s gotten permission from his “Elders”, but on the basis that Sploomy and his mates insist on literal interpretations, then he has to support what is happening over there.
Isiah 14:29-30 is all about Palestine, or as they called it back then, Philistia“29 People of Philistia, the rod that beat you is broken, but you have no reason to be glad. When one snake dies, a worse one comes in its place. A snake’s egg hatches a flying dragon. 30 The Lord will be a shepherd to the poor of his people and will let them live in safety. But he will send a terrible famine on you Philistines, and it will not leave any of you alive.”
and
Jeremiah 47:4
For the day has come to destroy all the Philistines and to remove all survivors who could help Tyre and Sidon. The LORD is about to destroy the Philistines, the remnant from the coasts of Caphtor.and
Ezekiel 25:16
Therefore, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will raise my fist of judgment against the land of the Philistines. I will wipe out the Kerethites and utterly destroy the people who live by the sea.“Utterly destroy” seems to be Benjamin Netanyahu’s basic plan, his own version of a “final solution” you could argue.
DIfference is that Eichmann’s version was 99% against innocents, whereas the much-left-wing acclaimed Hamas version was rather more indiscriminate, as no news outlet has said if any of the many October 7 victims were even “Israeli Military” or not… They were civillians attacked in their own homes by a known terrorist organazion given elected powers by the people of Gaza…
So much for “Democracy” if this perverted thing that has taken peace from the region - gets rebuked with arguments like "Israel are stating propaganda when they say “Babies were beheaded”.
The right-wing response of Netenyahu - is against the Guilty and guilty only.
Note that the gutter press still use language like “Claims” when Israel speaks, but like to state as “Fact” that Hamas and other terror outfits - are in some way being treated “unreasonably” by Israel, who are clearly having a Right Wing response to a situation that they know in advance - they don’t get any rewards for doing.
“Ceasefire”? - And let Hamas re-group?
This isn’t about Netenyahu’s future as a poltical leader - it’s about Israel’s very SURVIVAL.
Hamas - is not a “Religion” and therefore cannot be accused of “Heresy” just plain murder up-front-and-personal of innocents.
Palesteine/Gaza is not a Religion nor a Race nor a Nationality neither.
There can be no “Two State Solution” - as this was always an attempt to obtain “loser’s consent” from the side that didn’t lose - Israel.
Israel - have clearly had enough bs from the rest of the world, let alone the region - and the best thing to do if one wants “out” - is surrender, and agree to a partitioning of the country so there is a Gaza District in both Israel and Egypt heavily policed forever.
Egypt are putting forward a possible “Deal” for Israel and Palestine to consider…
Don’t hold your breath though. Any deal that involves Israel “stop shooting first” - isn’t going to work.
Any deal involving the “handover of Hamas Activists” - isn’t going to work neither.
When there’s a war - the Right usually fights in it, and ends up winning in it.
The pacifist Left-leaning answer, is usually to surrender, and then permit the enemy to go around from door to door victimizing minorities in that “annexed” country.
Ultimately, characters like Quisling of Norway - got taken out and shot for such a “pacifist” surrender-monkey attitude towards ■■■■ Germany once upon a time…
God may be “Love” - but there is also a concept known as “Justice” which of the Godly kind - is against the Wicked (unrepentant Sinners, rather than just “Lawbreaking” Sinners.
…especially that last paragraph…
God’s punishment upon the world - is still going to get laughed off, ignored, and retorted against time and time again before this is “Over”.
This talk of “a third slain” suggests indiscriminate extinction-like death upon the Earth, rather than people of a certain class, nationality, language etc. being more accurately targeted as Israel are currently attempting with regards to the fate of Gaza…
Any word out of “Ashkelon” of late?
The wider world - also faces danger from without (Space, the Heavens) although stupid people like to pretend that this is “Man Made Climate Change” that can somehow be “Averted” like Canute ordering the “tide to stop coming in”.
It isn’t Man-made at all. It’s natural disaster for all you non-believers out there, or “God’s Final Judgement” for those that DO.
You don’t “Avert” something like that - you get out of Dodge… But arrgh! - We’ve done away with our space programmes, and are now trapped on this dirt ball like those wailing to be let into the Ark come the Flood!
Is there a Doctor in the house■■?
We already have a doctor.Doctor of philosophy,dr Winseer!
You should write a book,Winseer!