albion1971:
Well I have got to say I am disappointed.
I don’t live on here - unlike some.
CHAINSAW, I suggest you completely ignore my post as it’s fairly obvious I haven’t got a clue what I am talking about. I only have two years experience of (un)coupling and trunking these things and I would hate for you to take my flawed advice over that of a master.
Likewise I’m out as well cos obviously I’ve only researched it on the tinterweb ! It was a long ■■■■■■■■■ (not) working for Alstons.
Cheers I’m gone …
peterm:
Why don’t you stop nit picking albion. I think we know what he’s (Stanley Knife) is saying. Remember your phrasing ?
Peterm there’s a distinct difference between phrasing something slightly wrong and talking absolute bollox.
Maybe you can help SK out and explain how you reverse any distance only turning the wheel a little?
You can reverse in a straight line by ‘walking’ it. If you’re paying attention you don’t need huge inputs of steering, swinging wildly back and forth from one lock to the other. I’m sure you must have shown people; sorry, seen people reversing B Doubles while you were over here and noticed that when going backwards in a straight line, they wasn’t using a great deal of wheel movement. Steady as she goes, no rushing and it works.
I love the way some on here make a comment and will not discuss it or back it up.
Before I go any further peterm have you ever thought or realised that every A frame trailer does not react the same. There are many combinations of prime movers and trailers. What type did you drive? Have you got a pic because I would be really interested to see the type that can be walked. I am genuinely intrigued.
And what are you gibbering on about when you say…when I am over here?? I live here.
As for walking an A frame trailer I can assure you the ones I drove that was not possible. Apart from that I have never seen any other driver do that in this country. What I have seen most in this country is them being pushed or the driver making a complete hash of it.
Carryfast and I do not always see eye to eye but this statement of his sums up A frames very well.
^ This IE lock changes from side to side to keep the drawbar and bogie going in the right directions have to be made quickly.
First up, IF you look at my location, you’ll see that I’m in Australia where you said you were having a holiday which I presume is all over and you’re now back in England.
Second, I don’t normally get ■■■■■■ off at people on here, but you’re managing it quite quite well with your sanctimonious drivel. No, I haven’t got any pictures of me driving anything. I haven’t got any pictures of me having a bit of the other, but I’ve got three offspring. I don’t see where you’re coming from with this thing about not walking dog trailers backwards. And as for me talking gibberish, look to yourself. No wonder Stanley Knife gave up on you.
By the way, just for you I found this video of someone reversing a B Double which is the same as a dog trailer. Look and learn. youtube.com/watch?v=sFXMKqvkY9A
Australian that makes sense! Did not think you would have a picture but the video you sent says it all.
First of all completely different combination of vehicle and trailer. Far less steering required although I would say even he was steering more than very little.
These are more or less the definitive examples that says it all.No shunts allowed.Although the second one ended up a bit out of line at the end because he needed a bit more left lock at 1.30.
Thank you old 67 and Carryfast for posting these which proves exactly what I was saying. If anyone on here tells me they are using very little steering they are either blind or completely stupid.
No wonder some do not want to continue the discussion.
albion1971:
Thank you old 67 and Carryfast for posting these which proves exactly what I was saying. If anyone on here tells me they are using very little steering they are either blind or completely stupid.
No wonder some do not want to continue the discussion.
Ironically,although admittedly in a tighter environment,the uk example there arguably ended up in a position of having to make more shunts than necessary. Because of the idea of a lot of lock less often as opposed to less amount of lock but more often.Such as having loads of right hand lock at 0.07 when it really needed a lot less if any at that point for example.Being that the bar was already at the correct relative angle to send the trailer back further into the place where it needed to go,without it folding,thereby allowing more room to swing the prime mover.
Bearing in mind that was a very similar type of manouvre,maybe with even more room,as I had to make every morning at Luton when dropping their trailer on the way back to Feltham from Dewsbury.Sometimes a bit knackered from being stuck in morning traffic Southbound on the M1 at that point.
peterm:
By the way, just for you I found this video of someone reversing a B Double which is the same as a dog trailer. Look and learn. youtube.com/watch?v=sFXMKqvkY9A
In the case of a B train,although it’s the same amount of points of articulation as a rigid and A frame,you’re effectively using a long trailer to steer another long trailer which reduces the magnification of the steering inputs compared to a rigid acting against a relatively a short drawbar.
While in the case of an A train doubles it’s the worst case combination of the steering inputs of the unit being reduced in magnification by the longer trailer then being magnified by the short drawbar let alone the extra point of articulation.Which really does seem to create some weird,exaggerated, steering input requirements. But which again shows that the advantages of using an A frame drawbar to couple a trailer outweighs the disadvantages.
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
If you mean the two A trains there’s no way that anyone would be using those types of steering input in a straight line reverse with a rigid and A frame trailer.I put those up to actually show the difference between an A train v a B train.
IE as I said relatively less ‘amounts’ of lock but changed often in the case of a rigid and trailer because of the magnifying effects of the short drawbar.
But relatively larger amounts and changed often in the case of the A train because of the effects of the long trailer turning the short drawbar.
With the B train a case of being more forgiving all round because it doesn’t have the short drawbar anywhere in the chain.
Which leaves the possibility of a rigid with a relatively short rear overhang and relatively long drawbar which would obviously need more amount and be more forgiving regards steering lock inputs.
I find when I have to reverse a btrain into a bay to tip off the rear end dump trailer *front a side tip_: to do a S when driving up to the bay to straighten up but I like to keep my unit just a little bit off centre so I can watch the wheels on the front trailer and to steer it that way .
As ground conditions vary a sand quarry on a rainy day makes you look like a numbnut big time when the rear hits a soft spot and goes its own way ,never anyone watching when reversing round a pile to load …and half o Manitoba watching when attempting a simple reverse and the outfit goes intae every hole in the quarry
I see lots o different outfits through the week at the quarries I go to,from normal artics,to B trains /super Bs to artics pulling short A frame trailers ,artics pulling short solid bar 3 axle (pigs).and rigids pulling quad A frames .and to be honest they all have good points and some o them wtf are they thinking
and to a point I would say its the younger guys on the normal artics and us old guys on the rest.
JIMBO47:
I find when I have to reverse a btrain into a bay to tip off the rear end dump trailer *front a side tip_: to do a S when driving up to the bay to straighten up but I like to keep my unit just a little bit off centre so I can watch the wheels on the front trailer and to steer it that way .
I think I’d prefer the usual rigid and A frame trailer.Having got used to just mainly using the offset of the closely spaced corners between truck and trailer ,as they move relative to each other with the two points of articulation,to judge steering angles.
As for the A train that really must be a zb.Because being an artic the rear and front corners of the front and rear trailers and the dolly on the second are often all obviously out of sight as the unit turns.In that regard I can understand the attraction of the B train v the A type.
albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
If you mean the two A trains there’s no way that anyone would be using those types of steering input in a straight line reverse with a rigid and A frame trailer.I put those up to actually show the difference between an A train v a B train.
IE as I said relatively less ‘amounts’ of lock but changed often in the case of a rigid and trailer because of the magnifying effects of the short drawbar.
But relatively larger amounts and changed often in the case of the A train because of the effects of the long trailer turning the short drawbar.
With the B train a case of being more forgiving all round because it doesn’t have the short drawbar anywhere in the chain.
Which leaves the possibility of a rigid with a relatively short rear overhang and relatively long drawbar which would obviously need more amount and be more forgiving regards steering lock inputs.
Yes Carry fast I understand what you are saying (I think )
Now can you dig out a video of someone reversing an A frame trailer in a straight line using VERY LITTLE STEERING ■■?
seeing no one else can show or tell me how its done.
albion1971:
Yes Carry fast I understand what you are saying (I think )
Now can you dig out a video of someone reversing an A frame trailer in a straight line using VERY LITTLE STEERING ■■?
seeing no one else can show or tell me how its done.
It would depend on the definition of ‘very little steering’.This is arguably too much and pro active in terms of lock.While maybe not enough in terms of frequency and a reactive approach being all that’s needed.
What is certain is that uk C + E training is turning out second class drivers compared to their German counterparts.Probably with second class job opportunities to match.
taffytrucker:
The B train in that Australian video has got to points of articulation which makes it hell of a lot harder to back up then a rigid with an trailer
We’re discussing A frame drawbars.Which are two points of articulation.The difference being that an A frame is a lot shorter than a B train’s first trailer and therefore magnifies the steering inputs.In which case this is what can be done with a bit of fine tuning of bar length and coupling position and a decent length trailer.
