raymundo:
Turn the steering wheel at whatever speed you like as long as you don’t turn it too much otherwise you’ll be snaking it all over the show in the end.
Maybe I should have phrased it better. You have to be very quick to correct it otherwise your bolloxed unlike an artic.
^ This IE lock changes from side to side to keep the drawbar and bogie going in the right directions have to be made quickly.While the ‘amount’ of input v reaction is more a case of length of the drawbar and/or amount of tail sweep on the prime mover.The worst combination for being too sensitive to steering input while reversing being a short drawbar with long tail sweep.On that note on most of the ones I drove being 6x2 tags I preferred to keep the tag axle down to reduce/slow the effect of the tail swinging the bar.
albion1971:
My Boss who has been driving these combos for years told me NEVER drive with the trailer full and the wagon empty. Believe me when I say I don’t doubt him!
Your Boss is completely correct.
Obviously you want to aim for good weight distribution in general but they are much more forgiving with loading than regular drawbar drags.
My top tip would be watch the front wheels on the trailer as much as the mirrors, or hanging out the window, allows. The direction they’re in is where the trailer is going to go the next time you lift the clutch.
raymundo:
Turn the steering wheel at whatever speed you like as long as you don’t turn it too much otherwise you’ll be snaking it all over the show in the end.
Maybe I should have phrased it better. You have to be very quick to correct it otherwise your bolloxed unlike an artic.
Would love to see stanley knife at work!
That’s better albion, get yer phrasing correct, and why would you like to see Stanley Knife at work ?
raymundo:
I dragged those things around for nearly a year but cant say I ever mastered them 100%. One place in Belfast we went to the lads in the warehouse would get me to drop the trailer and they would push it to the doors, furniture don’t weigh much and cable handbrake (before any one says the brakes would lock on when you disconnected the airlines.)
I worked with them for 5 years on and off. Of course you never fully master it. Some days better than others but in general I could get it where I wanted.
Back in a straight line…good side reverse and blind side reverse always with a shunt or 2 or 6! but always got there.
As I am sure you know they can make an artic driver look like a complete amateur exactly like I was at the start.
raymundo:
Turn the steering wheel at whatever speed you like as long as you don’t turn it too much otherwise you’ll be snaking it all over the show in the end.
Maybe I should have phrased it better. You have to be very quick to correct it otherwise your bolloxed unlike an artic.
Would love to see stanley knife at work!
That’s better albion, get yer phrasing correct, and why would you like to see Stanley Knife at work ?
I would like to see him backing up moving the steering wheel very little. I just cannot see how it would be possible.
Own Account Driver:
Obviously you want to aim for good weight distribution in general but they are much more forgiving with loading than regular drawbar drags.
My top tip would be watch the front wheels on the trailer as much as the mirrors, or hanging out the window, allows. The direction they’re in is where the trailer is going to go the next time you lift the clutch.
The weight distribution issue in all its forms is one of the main advantages of A frames.IE there is no interaction whatsoever between prime mover and trailer weights.
Unlike the close coupled idea.Where too much forward weight bias on the trailer imposes too much load on the drive/rear axle/s and lifts it off the front axle of the prime mover.Or vice versa in the case of rearward trailer weight bias which also creates a gyroscopic type of swinging action from the rear.In either case that results in the typical issue of the close coupled tail wagging the dog scenario.While a rearward weight bias on the prime mover obviously also plays havoc with the axle weights of the trailer by imposing more load on the front axle/s while lifting it off the rear/s.
Which then leaves that catch 22 of a close coupled trailer needing a reasonable amount of nose weight to cut down on that gyro swinging action from the rear.Which means that the prime mover can’t be loaded to max without exceeding the rear axle weight.While the gross weight of the trailer needs to allow for the resulting in balance in trailer axle weights so as not to over load the front trailer axle/s.
As for watching the front bogie of an A frame while reversing.The offset between the front corners of the trailer and rear corners of the prime mover at any point in the turn gives a good indication of the amount and direction of turn in the bogie.IE the steering input needs a quick change of opposite lock to bring the corners back into line at every stage of the turn.
Well I have got to say I am disappointed.
I was looking forward to Stanley Knifes version of how to reverse an A frame trailer turning the wheel very little.
I would defy anyone to go back any distance turning the wheel very little but I would love to hear how it is done.
albion1971:
Well I have got to say I am disappointed.
I was looking forward to Stanley Knifes version of how to reverse an A frame trailer turning the wheel very little.
I would defy anyone to go back any distance turning the wheel very little but I would love to hear how it is done.
To be fair it was probably just in the phrasing.Along the lines of not using the relatively larger steering lock inputs which would work on an artic but which could fold up the drawbar on an A frame.
As for the weight differential issue.It’s obvious that a 2 + 3 or even Scandinavian type 3 + 5 A frame outfit shows the type of weight mismatch between prime mover and trailer which they are designed to work with on a routine basis.Try that type of mismatch in weights with a close coupled job.
albion1971:
Well I have got to say I am disappointed.
I don’t live on here - unlike some.
CHAINSAW, I suggest you completely ignore my post as it’s fairly obvious I haven’t got a clue what I am talking about. I only have two years experience of (un)coupling and trunking these things and I would hate for you to take my flawed advice over that of a master.
albion1971:
Well I have got to say I am disappointed.
I don’t live on here - unlike some.
CHAINSAW, I suggest you completely ignore my post as it’s fairly obvious I haven’t got a clue what I am talking about. I only have two years experience of (un)coupling and trunking these things and I would hate for you to take my flawed advice over that of a master.
Disappointed again. I thought at least you would give an explanation of how you reverse an A frame trailer turning the wheel very little. You said it so at least justify what you say.
As I said earlier I would defy anyone to reverse any distance moving the wheel very little. Explain how please. You may drive them and uncouple but do you reverse them? I wonder?
albion1971:
As I said earlier I would defy anyone to reverse any distance moving the wheel very little. Explain how please. You may drive them and uncouple but do you reverse them? I wonder?
You move the wheel a lot more often in terms of frequency but don’t apply the ‘amount’ ‘of lock’ that you could/would with an artic.Which I’m guessing is what he probably meant.
peterm:
Why don’t you stop nit picking albion. I think we know what he’s (Stanley Knife) is saying. Remember your phrasing ?
Peterm there’s a distinct difference between phrasing something slightly wrong and talking absolute bollox.
Maybe you can help SK out and explain how you reverse any distance only turning the wheel a little?
albion1971:
Maybe you can help SK out and explain how you reverse any distance only turning the wheel a little?
Blimey albion can’t you get your head around the difference between ‘frequency’ of ‘movement’ as opposed to ‘amount’ of ‘lock’.
On that note,if you mean a straight line reverse,then you’ll know that you need to put in an even ( much ) smaller ‘amount’ of ‘lock’ input either side,to keep the bar straight and stop it folding up,than if you wanted to turn it.
I understand completely about reversing having had 5 years of experience.
What I do not understand is someone saying what JK said.
I asked an old friend what he thought about that statement and he agreed it was ridiculous.
Now unless JK is kind enough to explain exactly what he meant by what he said I consider the subject closed.
albion1971:
Now unless JK is kind enough to explain exactly what he meant .
To be fair he also seemed to be suggesting that it will need enough room in front of a demount box to get the whole outfit into a straight line ahead of it to get the trailer under it.
Although having said that I’d guess that the weight mismatch between a fully freighted 3 axle rigid v a fully freighted 5 axle trailer can’t possibly be less than that between even an empty 3 axle rigid v a fully freighted two axle trailer.IE as I said the A frame configuration is a game changer regards the weight distribution and resulting tail wagging the dog issue that is the major flaw contained in the close coupled idea.
peterm:
Why don’t you stop nit picking albion. I think we know what he’s (Stanley Knife) is saying. Remember your phrasing ?
Peterm there’s a distinct difference between phrasing something slightly wrong and talking absolute bollox.
Maybe you can help SK out and explain how you reverse any distance only turning the wheel a little?
You can reverse in a straight line by ‘walking’ it. If you’re paying attention you don’t need huge inputs of steering, swinging wildly back and forth from one lock to the other. I’m sure you must have shown people; sorry, seen people reversing B Doubles while you were over here and noticed that when going backwards in a straight line, they wasn’t using a great deal of wheel movement. Steady as she goes, no rushing and it works.
Carryfast has just agreed with me. 
