albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
Thought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !
Neither of those videos that Carryfast put up are B Doubles or truck and dog. Nor is the EWM bloke reversing in to a yard anything to do with it. The video I put up was the nearest I could find to the truck and dog going backwards in a straight line.
The B Double is the same as a truck and dog, just a longer drawbar which is the A trailer. Slower to react, but exactly the same principle. Two points of articulation ie: turntable under the A trailer and turntable under the B trailer. Have another look at the video that I put up and tell me that heâs swinging all over the place. The learner in whatever country he was in was using too much, too late. If thatâs how you back 'em up after five years of doing it, you should be ashamed of yourself. I only have two picâs of me and lorries because I donât run round showing everyone what a big wheel man I am. I expect you have plenty.
As for JK, heâs probably fed up with your childish, pointless arguing. Same as him, I doubt Iâll post on this anymore, Iâll just go and have a look at you being the drama queen cos a bin lorry dared to move when you were 50 yards from it.
taffytrucker:
The B train in that Australian video has got to points of articulation which makes it hell of a lot harder to back up then a rigid with an trailer
Weâre discussing A frame drawbars.Which are two points of articulation.The difference being that an A frame is a lot shorter than a B trainâs first trailer and therefore magnifies the steering inputs.In which case this is what can be done with a bit of fine tuning of bar length and coupling position and a decent length trailer.
No that depends if itâs A frame on the back of a rigid or on the back of a tractor unit. Also the bar from the pup (rear trailer) can be shortened or lengthend depending on bridge weights inbthe area, therefore again changing your turning point
albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
Thought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !
Neither of those videos that Carryfast put up are B Doubles or truck and dog. Nor is the EWM bloke reversing in to a yard anything to do with it. The video I put up was the nearest I could find to the truck and dog going backwards in a straight line.
The B Double is the same as a truck and dog, just a longer drawbar which is the A trailer. Slower to react, but exactly the same principle. Two points of articulation ie: turntable under the A trailer and turntable under the B trailer. Have another look at the video that I put up and tell me that heâs swinging all over the place. The learner in whatever country he was in was using too much, too late. If thatâs how you back 'em up after five years of doing it, you should be ashamed of yourself. I only have two picâs of me and lorries because I donât run round showing everyone what a big wheel man I am. I expect you have plenty.
As for JK, heâs probably fed up with your childish, pointless arguing. Same as him, I doubt Iâll post on this anymore, Iâll just go and have a look at you being the drama queen cos a bin lorry dared to move when you were 50 yards from it.
When did I mention our times were the same as yours? Never is the answer. All I asked for was for someone preferably JK because he was the one to make the stupid statement in the first place for an answer or proof how to reverse an A frame trailer using very little steering.
Secondly I never mentioned any of the trailers YOU or Carryfast are talking about. All I have mentioned is a rigid vehicle with an A frame trailer simply because it is the only one I have driven and the only one I know how it reacts and as I have said all along I defy anyone to reverse one back in a straight line using very little steering.
My argument is not pointless. The problem with you and JK and a couple of others is you will not admit when you are wrong.
It is just typical of some on this forum. They make a statement and cannot back it up so they just start throwing abuse around.
Are you really a truck driver? It makes me wonder with some on here. I just wonder who has really driven an A frame trailer because from what I have read on here I just cannot see it.
Have you driven a rigid with an A frame trailer? Can you tell me or show me how to reverse in a straight line using very little steering?
Even the vid you sent the guy used more than a very little steering. So you run along and pretend you are right but deep down you know your just gibbering rubbish for the wrong reason. If your bright enough you will know what I am talking about.
taffytrucker:
The B train in that Australian video has got to points of articulation which makes it hell of a lot harder to back up then a rigid with an trailer
Weâre discussing A frame drawbars.Which are two points of articulation.The difference being that an A frame is a lot shorter than a B trainâs first trailer and therefore magnifies the steering inputs.In which case this is what can be done with a bit of fine tuning of bar length and coupling position and a decent length trailer.
No that depends if itâs A frame on the back of a rigid or on the back of a tractor unit. Also the bar from the pup (rear trailer) can be shortened or lengthend depending on bridge weights inbthe area, therefore again changing your turning point
Blimey taffy get it right.An A frame dolly or trailer coupled to a tractor is a ballast tractor set up,which is effectively the same thing as a rigid and A frame trailer.Just like the B train which effectively just uses the front trailer as a type of load carrying drawbar to steer the second trailer.In âallâ those cases weâre talking about âtwoâ points of articulation.While an A train is an artic pulling another trailer/s using an A frame dolly which is obviously at least 3 points of articulation.
As for an adjustable length A frame drawbar great idea.Which fits in with my statement that the magnification of the sensitivity to steering inputs,on an A frame drawbar set up,is largely dependent on drawbar length ( and coupling point relative to overhang ).Which is why theyâve obviously brought the coupling point forward thereby increasing both drawbar length and decreasing over hang effect,on the latest 25 metre euro combi set up which I posted.
albion1971:
When did I mention our times were the same as yours? Never is the answer. All I asked for was for someone preferably JK because he was the one to make the stupid statement in the first place for an answer or proof how to reverse an A frame trailer using very little steering.
Secondly I never mentioned any of the trailers YOU or Carryfast are talking about. All I have mentioned is a rigid vehicle with an A frame trailer simply because it is the only one I have driven and the only one I know how it reacts and as I have said all along I defy anyone to reverse one back in a straight line using very little steering.
My argument is not pointless. The problem with you and JK and a couple of others is you will not admit when you are wrong.
It is just typical of some on this forum. They make a statement and cannot back it up so they just start throwing abuse around.
Are you really a truck driver? It makes me wonder with some on here. I just wonder who has really driven an A frame trailer because from what I have read on here I just cannot see it.
Have you driven a rigid with an A frame trailer? Can you tell me or show me how to reverse in a straight line using very little steering?
Even the vid you sent the guy used more than a very little steering. So you run along and pretend you are right but deep down you know your just gibbering rubbish for the wrong reason. If your bright enough you will know what I am talking about.
Albion have you thought of the possibility that thereâs no need for any of that. Assuming the comments âvery little steeringâ just ( rightly ) meant donât do it like the German learnerâs example.On that note Iâd give JK the benefit of the doubt that he didnât meant anything other than that.
peterm:
The learner in whatever country he was in was using too much, too late. If thatâs how you back 'em up after five years of doing it, you should be ashamed of yourself.
It was more a case to too much too soon when it wasnât even needed anyway.IE a lot of people seem to confuse quick to react with a bit when itâs needed with a âlot of steeringâ.
taffytrucker:
Tend to use the B train more. Weight is easy 10T 5T 5T 10.5T in the states or 10T in each in Canada 0
That CF handles and drives nothing like a rigid with an A frame and backs even less like one. O sorry I forgot you are talking from your vast experience on the bin lorry again.
taffytrucker:
Tend to use the B train more. Weight is easy 10T 5T 5T 10.5T in the states or 10T in each in Canada 0
That CF handles and drives nothing like a rigid with an A frame and backs even less like one. O sorry I forgot you are talking from your vast experience on the bin lorry again.
No âthatâ handles nothing like a rigid and A frame trailer nor a B train because the pic actually shows ⌠a type of A train ( in their parlance maybe termed a semi and drawbar pup ? ) which has 3 points of articulation not two.
On that note as I said the A train combines both the contradictory characteristics of a B train âandâ an A frame drawbar outfit in terms of steering inputs.Because youâre turning the A frame with a long semi trailer which reduces the effects of the steering inputs.But then it also magnifies them with the shorter drawbar.In addition to the extra point of articulation.While even if it was a rigid and A frame trailer the longer bar and no rear over hang would still reduce the effect of the steering inputs.Compared to the average Euro type with their shorter bar and longer overhang.Which as I said has now been addressed in the form of the latest LHV types.
On that note I actually spent more of my time firstly learning how to make trucks ( in which I was expected to and did find out for myself the differences ( and connections ) between the main configurations.In addition to later driving both close coupled and A frame type drawbar outfits.
Than I did as a council driver driving a âbin lorryâ .( Actually multi lift which meant anything from a flat hauling plant in the morning to a tipper and a bulk refuse carrier in the afternoon ) and gritters among others.
albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
Thought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !
Neither of those videos that Carryfast put up are B Doubles or truck and dog. Nor is the EWM bloke reversing in to a yard anything to do with it. The video I put up was the nearest I could find to the truck and dog going backwards in a straight line.
The B Double is the same as a truck and dog, just a longer drawbar which is the A trailer. Slower to react, but exactly the same principle. Two points of articulation ie: turntable under the A trailer and turntable under the B trailer. Have another look at the video that I put up and tell me that heâs swinging all over the place. The learner in whatever country he was in was using too much, too late. If thatâs how you back 'em up after five years of doing it, you should be ashamed of yourself. I only have two picâs of me and lorries because I donât run round showing everyone what a big wheel man I am. I expect you have plenty.
As for JK, heâs probably fed up with your childish, pointless arguing. Same as him, I doubt Iâll post on this anymore, Iâll just go and have a look at you being the drama queen cos a bin lorry dared to move when you were 50 yards from it.
When did I mention our times were the same as yours? Never is the answer. All I asked for was for someone preferably JK because he was the one to make the stupid statement in the first place for an answer or proof how to reverse an A frame trailer using very little steering.
Secondly I never mentioned any of the trailers YOU or Carryfast are talking about. All I have mentioned is a rigid vehicle with an A frame trailer simply because it is the only one I have driven and the only one I know how it reacts and as I have said all along I defy anyone to reverse one back in a straight line using very little steering.
My argument is not pointless. The problem with you and JK and a couple of others is you will not admit when you are wrong.
It is just typical of some on this forum. They make a statement and cannot back it up so they just start throwing abuse around.
Are you really a truck driver? It makes me wonder with some on here. I just wonder who has really driven an A frame trailer because from what I have read on here I just cannot see it.
Have you driven a rigid with an A frame trailer? Can you tell me or show me how to reverse in a straight line using very little steering?
Even the vid you sent the guy used more than a very little steering. So you run along and pretend you are right but deep down you know your just gibbering rubbish for the wrong reason. If your bright enough you will know what I am talking about.
âWhere are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?â is what you wrote, thatâs why I wrote âThought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !â
The answer to your question is yes. Can I tell you how to reverse one ?.. no, I donât think anyone can tell you anything. Can I show you how to reverse one ?, Of course I can, just get yerself over here, hire the appropriate vehicles and hire a suitable off road space (I no longer have the proper licence for health reasons) and weâll go from there.
albion1971:
Thanks again Carryfast for the 2 vids. Just back from the pub and had a quick look.
First one a bit boring to watch but second one is a perfect example of how much steering you need to go back in a straight line.
Not the same combination as I drove but very similar steering input.
Where are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?
Thought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !
Neither of those videos that Carryfast put up are B Doubles or truck and dog. Nor is the EWM bloke reversing in to a yard anything to do with it. The video I put up was the nearest I could find to the truck and dog going backwards in a straight line.
The B Double is the same as a truck and dog, just a longer drawbar which is the A trailer. Slower to react, but exactly the same principle. Two points of articulation ie: turntable under the A trailer and turntable under the B trailer. Have another look at the video that I put up and tell me that heâs swinging all over the place. The learner in whatever country he was in was using too much, too late. If thatâs how you back 'em up after five years of doing it, you should be ashamed of yourself. I only have two picâs of me and lorries because I donât run round showing everyone what a big wheel man I am. I expect you have plenty.
As for JK, heâs probably fed up with your childish, pointless arguing. Same as him, I doubt Iâll post on this anymore, Iâll just go and have a look at you being the drama queen cos a bin lorry dared to move when you were 50 yards from it.
When did I mention our times were the same as yours? Never is the answer. All I asked for was for someone preferably JK because he was the one to make the stupid statement in the first place for an answer or proof how to reverse an A frame trailer using very little steering.
Secondly I never mentioned any of the trailers YOU or Carryfast are talking about. All I have mentioned is a rigid vehicle with an A frame trailer simply because it is the only one I have driven and the only one I know how it reacts and as I have said all along I defy anyone to reverse one back in a straight line using very little steering.
My argument is not pointless. The problem with you and JK and a couple of others is you will not admit when you are wrong.
It is just typical of some on this forum. They make a statement and cannot back it up so they just start throwing abuse around.
Are you really a truck driver? It makes me wonder with some on here. I just wonder who has really driven an A frame trailer because from what I have read on here I just cannot see it.
Have you driven a rigid with an A frame trailer? Can you tell me or show me how to reverse in a straight line using very little steering?
Even the vid you sent the guy used more than a very little steering. So you run along and pretend you are right but deep down you know your just gibbering rubbish for the wrong reason. If your bright enough you will know what I am talking about.
âWhere are JK, peterm and co when you need them to explain their theory of using very little streering?â is what you wrote, thatâs why I wrote âThought youâd be clever enough to know, seeing as youâve supposedly been here that we sleep at different times to you !â
The answer to your question is yes. Can I tell you how to reverse one ?.. no, I donât think anyone can tell you anything. Can I show you how to reverse one ?, Of course I can, just get yerself over here, hire the appropriate vehicles and hire a suitable off road space (I no longer have the proper licence for health reasons) and weâll go from there.
First of all sorry to hear you cannot drive due to health reasons. I have had back problems for many years due to heavy lifting in my younger years and although it restricted me to the type of work it never stopped me completely working and partly why I ended up in training.
You are wrong when you say no one can tell me anything. Over the years I have been on literally hunderds of different training courses where I have listened to many informative people and had to pass exams to show I had listened an absorbed the information. I love to hear people that know what they are talking about on different subjects and are genuinely clued up on the subject they are talking about something you need to do if you are to train people.
What I do not like is some that come on here and talk through their backsides about subjects they obviously know nothing about and then have the audacity to slag someone when their view is questioned.
Back to reversing an A frame. Yes I am sure you could show me how to reverse one but I can assure you there would be plenty steering input from yourself as you were demonstrating the manouvre. But no swinging it from sise to side ( your words not mine ) You would have to use more than a very little steering though.
Got to say we thoroughly enjoyed visiting your country and are planning another trip next year. Going to Melbourne and Philip Island to start with. Here a few really talented Australians you may have heard ofâŚWayne Gardner. Mick Doohan. Casey Stoner and Jack Miller.
I could show you how to corner on a motorcycle using very little steering input but not with an A frameâŚLOL.
albion1971:
Back to reversing an A frame. Yes I am sure you could show me how to reverse one but I can assure you there would be plenty steering input from yourself as you were demonstrating the manouvre. But no swinging it from sise to side ( your words not mine ) You would have to use more than a very little steering though.
Not if âvery little steeringâ was just meant in the sense of donât exaggerate the lock inputs by âswinging it from side to sideâ.At least unless itâs an A train outfit as shown in the vids.
Spar in Preston donât have A frames plus if you donât want to drive them as you donât feel confident with them thatâs ok but they will give you training the same goes for double deckers
vendetta64:
Spar in Preston donât have A frames plus if you donât want to drive them as you donât feel confident with them thatâs ok but they will give you training the same goes for double deckers
Donât work like that as all their training methods and what they teach on how to reverse those things will be proved wrong by all the experts on here ! I know now after reading all the comments on this thread that the chap who instructed me was wrong.
vendetta64:
Spar in Preston donât have A frames plus if you donât want to drive them as you donât feel confident with them thatâs ok but they will give you training the same goes for double deckers
Donât work like that as all their training methods and what they teach on how to reverse those things will be proved wrong by all the experts on here ! I know now after reading all the comments on this thread that the chap who instructed me was wrong.
Thought you had gone? The way it works is if you pay for a reputable company with properly qualified instructors you will be taught correctly. Of course that depends if you are capable of taking in what you are told.
If as happens with a lot of companies you are taught by another lorry driver who has never been trained to teach you will only learn as much as he knows if he has the ability to explain what he already knows.(which is unlikely) You have to be very accurate when explaining procedures or information can be misinterpreted.(as it is on here a lot)
Its fairly obvious from the roads today a lot have been trained by unqualified instructors or completely forgotton what they have been taught. I mean some on here do not even know basic highway code! Professionals.
