Moving on from a couple of my previous threads.
A conversation ensues, sometime soon I will be asked to take a 3.5 ton van and trailer out without an Operators Licence or Tachograph present. What would you say if you were asked to carry out the above?
Also it was previously suggested the O Licence was nothing to do with the driver and manual entries on an analogue tacho would suffice if stopped, but it sounds a bit risky to me.
global.
I’m not sure on the rules on this but I’m pretty sure you don’t need an O Licence to run a 3.5 tonne van, however I’m assuming that the Other licence might become an issue if the MAM of both the Van and Trailer exceeds 7.5 tonnes, also I’m not sure when you need to have air breaks. Others will know and be along shortly.
Manual entries won’t suffice, as such, but would mitigate and may lead to a more sympathetic sanction, for example, if you say to an enforcement official you were told to take it out and suspected it was in scope of driver’s hours, although your boss said different, you made your own manual record in case he was wrong.
Operator’s licence isn’t a driver’s issue but obviously a firm operating without one, when they should, probably speaks volumes about their likely attitude to other areas. The main concern for a driver would be if caught the vehicle will likely be impounded and they would have to make their own way home.
global:
Moving on from a couple of my previous threads.
A conversation ensues, sometime soon I will be asked to take a 3.5 ton van and trailer out without an Operators Licence or Tachograph present.
A 3.5 tonne van doesn’t need an Operator’s Licence or a tachograph unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.
Unfortunately this is a commonly ignored bit of law and rarely enforced. If I was asked to do this, I would point to an article like this one: Compliance: Should your 3.5t van be fitted with a tachograph? Fleet Van
You have to decide whether you are prepared to leave your job for keeping things squeaky clean. Personally I would be out of there as who knows what law you will be asked to flout next week.
Mm. Not sure about the manual tacho entry. It could be viewed that if you felt it worthy you had to do a days manual entry in leu of a missing tacho head why did you accept a vehicle you felt was within scope. Damned if you do and if you don’t.
Ive not read the first post so only have picked up gist off this one. But know what. Thinking about this, the only way is to find out the real answer, black or white. Do a bit of digging and look up the regs. If needs be make an anonymous ‘generic’ enquiry to the regs to find out the answer. If its within scope. Just don’t do it, refuse if vehicle not equipped or no o licence displayed. Because if they pull you they will simply say as a “pro driver holding LGV privilege bla bla you should know the requirements for that class of vehicle and category and it’s down to you as its you’re responsibility as you’re in charge”.
I know a fella who runs backwards & forwards to Spain in a Sprinter with a car trailer, no Tacho, no O Licence !
I keep telling him “it’s only a matter of time & all that money that he’s making will be in the Treasury’s Coffers, paying for their Duck Houses & Ladys of the Night, when they’re on a Jolly in London” lol.
Harry Monk:
A 3.5 tonne van doesn’t need an Operator’s Licence or a tachograph unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.
The consensus on the board seems to be that you need both an Operators licence and a Tachograph Harry, would you be able to provide a link to the source of your information.
global.
global:
Harry Monk:
A 3.5 tonne van doesn’t need an Operator’s Licence or a tachograph unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.The consensus on the board seems to be that you need both an Operators licence and a Tachograph Harry, would you be able to provide a link to the source of your information.
global.
Unless the law has recently changed, here are the relevant sections from my (December 2012) Operator’s CPC training manual.
global:
Harry Monk:
A 3.5 tonne van doesn’t need an Operator’s Licence or a tachograph unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.The consensus on the board seems to be that you need both an Operators licence and a Tachograph Harry, would you be able to provide a link to the source of your information.
global.
I think you are both saying the same thing, and what Harry meant is that if you exceed 3.5 (hence into 7.5 territory) you need “O” and tacho.
The law states that the weight of the trailer must be added to the gross vehicle weight of the van.
So if the van has a gvw of 3.5 tonnes and it’s towing a two-tonne trailer, the vehicle effectively weighs 5.5 tonnes and must have a tachograph — and you’ll need an O-licence to operate it too
unless
the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward or the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base.
Harry Monk:
…unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.
Since It’s unlikely a 3.5 tonne van would be able to tow anything which would take the trailer into 7.5 tonne territory, I have interpreted the above differently from yourself. I’m sure Harry will clear it up though.
Incidentally th2013, thanks for your link above.
global.
I would agree with your first quote nick2008, but would ask if your second quote pertains to domestic rules?
global.
Iam pretty sure it will be £200 fine for the driver ,but for the company iam unsure as the regs have been in since dec 2011 there’s only so long they will take a light view of this before it’s viewed the same as running any other commercial vehicle without a o licence .
Harry Monk:
global:
Harry Monk:
A 3.5 tonne van doesn’t need an Operator’s Licence or a tachograph unless the trailer takes you into 7.5 tonne territory.The consensus on the board seems to be that you need both an Operators licence and a Tachograph Harry, would you be able to provide a link to the source of your information.
global.Unless the law has recently changed, here are the relevant sections from my (December 2012) Operator’s CPC training manual.
I missed this post somehow, thanks Harry, please ignore my post saying you will clear this up.
global.
Operators Licence.
“In calculating the relevant gross plated weight or unladen weight, any trailer towed by the vehicle must be included unless the trailer has an unladen weight of not more than 1020kg, in which case it can be ignored completely”
So, if I read the above correctly when the trailer has an unladen weight of not more than 1020kg it does not need an Operators Licence.
I have previously driven a 3.5 tonne (gross weight) flatbed and a flatbed trailer with an unladen weight of 750kg and yet capable of carrying 3.5 tonne gross. This combination would still be exempt an ‘O’ Licence if I’m reading it correctly.
Incidentally the train weight of the above was about 5.5 tonne.
global.
See this link…it gives scenarios when O licence could be reqd.
assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/s … eaflet.pdf
Good luck BTW!!!
global:
Operators Licence.
“In calculating the relevant gross plated weight or unladen weight, any trailer towed by the vehicle must be included unless the trailer has an unladen weight of not more than 1020kg, in which case it can be ignored completely”So, if I read the above correctly when the trailer has an unladen weight of not more than 1020kg it does not need an Operators Licence.
I have previously driven a 3.5 tonne (gross weight) flatbed and a flatbed trailer with an unladen weight of 750kg and yet capable of carrying 3.5 tonne gross. This combination would still be exempt an ‘O’ Licence if I’m reading it correctly.
Incidentally the train weight of the above was about 5.5 tonne.
global.
At 5.5 tonne gtw it’s not possible to carry 3.5 tonne,and with a 750kg trailer even more not possible .a very light 3.5 t flat will weigh 1750 kg if your lucky with a short wheel base ,so with your 750kg trailer your only going to carry 3 tonne payload at best .
global:
I would agree with your first quote nick2008, but would ask if your second quote pertains to domestic rules?
global.
I would say the 2nd quote
the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward or the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base.
refers to 2 rules …
part 1
the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward
ie using it with a trailer where you not doing anything for reward you could be transporting something to your new home ie a car or home belongings.
part 2
or the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base
I would think this would be under domestic rules ie grounds maintenance, local builder who moves his own plant but not more than the prescribed distance …
That would be my thinking on that