nick, this would be my take on it also!
Dan, from memory the combination consisted of:
Sprinter flatbed actual weight 2.4 tonne taken from 3.5 tonne gross weight leaves a payload of 1.1 tonne.
Trailer flatbed actual weight 750kg taken from 3.5 tonne gross weight leaves a payload of 2.75 tonne.
The gross train weight was 5.5 tonne.
I think that was what it consisted of anyway.
global.
nick2008:
global:
I would agree with your first quote nick2008, but would ask if your second quote pertains to domestic rules?
global.I would say the 2nd quote
the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward or the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base.
refers to 2 rules …
part 1
the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward
ie using it with a trailer where you not doing anything for reward you could be transporting something to your new home ie a car or home belongings.
part 2
or the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base
I would think this would be under domestic rules ie grounds maintenance, local builder who moves his own plant but not more than the prescribed distance …
That would be my thinking on that
In the world of trailer towing hire and reward has two meanings. For operator’s licencing it has the traditional meaning of moving either passengers or other people’s goods for a fee. For tachographs it is (ludicrously - which massively adds to the confusion in this area) interpreted as any commercial activity.
As far as the OP is concerned, this has been done to death now.
He has previously stated it is collecting and delivering customers machinery to and from repair with a 3.5t van and trailer. In these circumstamces, as he has been told repeatedly, there are no valid exemptions to o-licence and tachograph.
As an employed driver an o-licence is neither here nor there only potential penalties for drivers hours offences. It is up to the OP how much they value the job to be prepared to risk it. As has been mentioned, by somene else if your an LGV qualified driver I agree there is a risk of being held to a higher standard if pulled and you a risking more.
The OP has had all the correct advice on several previous threads and all this one has done is just potentially add confusion to an area many find difficult to follow- which isn’t really as far as 3.5t vans are concerned as unless you’re a builder, or similar, sticking to a 50km radius tachograph is essentially a given.
The fleet news article linked above is also confusing/misleading with the hire and reward dual interpretation.
Thanks for all the positive posts, as can be seen from the Subject and Original Post I had no intention of revisiting this again, but since it followed that path it was only polite to respond.
global.
Sorry, wasn’t having a go it was just that the thread seemed to be adding to the general confusion with folk going off down the garden path a bit.
Going back to the original post it certainly is risky, more so if you hold LGV rights, and as a driver, even only employed, you do carry liability on the driver’s hours side. Making a record on a chart won’t make you legit as such but at least does provide evidence you were making efforts to comply with driver’s hours regulations.
Personally, given the unclear and confusing nature of the rules this is an easy situation/mistake for the unwitting driver to make - particularly if they have been told it is ok by their employer. Whether the authorities acknowledge this to the point of lenient treatment, if caught, is another matter.
However, if you refused to take the vehicle out and you were subsequently dismissed from the job it would certainly be viewed as unfair dismissal.