starfighter:
Eg a Monday to Friday day driver doing 0400-1400.
Forty hours basic = £300
Ten hours o/t = £112.50
Fifteen hours dark money = £33.75
=£446.25 before government theft.
I wouldn’t do 50 hours a week for that money. And I certainly wouldn’t get up at silly o’clock for it!
Why not?
That averages out at just under £9/hr, don’t think thats too bad.
Just another idiot that thinks he’s worth more than actually is, but its ok though atleast he can stay in bed and keep what he thinks is his pride and be proped up by the state, unlike our east euro friends that will do what ever it take to put food on the table…
Some here who would think you an idiot for having a sense of ones own self worth.
There will be many a driver “propped up by the state” because we now have a system which rewards an employer for paying a crap wage namely the working tax credit.
And yes our friends “will do whatever it takes to put food on the table” and that kind of ethic came by way of real hardship.
My question is who put the piranhas in with the guppies?
Did you invite this friend to lunch? I know I didn’t.
Employers don’t have this never ending pot of money that some people think, owning a business is a risk so although the owners earn far more they so rightly should otherwise they mite aswell become a employee.
We need to be part of europe end of and the influx of east europeans has given this country the wake up it needs!
[/quote
Does not mean an employer is better than their workers and deserves to earn a disproportionate income in comparison.
Anyone building up a company rely heavily on their workers, as well as the state and a functioning infrastructure regardless of the risk they take so the idea that’s its all down to their own work simply falls flat on its arse
Also I have been awake to the problems the influx of East Europeans and greater integration have caused, not a simple issue or a single issue either, but I know is it ain’t working in my favour and in this great democracy of ours I still have the right to say NO!
And so do many others.
So your saying that a company owner should earn the same as their employee’s? I agree companies do rely on their employees but business’s dont revolve around them.
oman5:
I think it has bugger all to do with some kind of class envy. (working class wanting to emulate middle class without acquiring the skills)
Put simply, If I am in charge of potentially half a million quid’s worth of vehicle and load, in a job classified by the insurance industry as a high risk occupation.
So you pay personaly if the load get damaged, stolen or missing in any other way?
You pay personaly if your vehicle get stolen, damaged or missing (maybe sold) in any other way?
Or maybe you pay personal the insurance for the vehicle and the driver?
If not than your whole argument is BS, useless not even worth the time to type it.
And since when is this job qualified as “High Risk” occupation?
It’s still very simple to insure a driver for “death in service” or injuries and premiums are lower than some of you may think.
Its a job I absolutly love, have done for 30 odd years and still adore, but it’s a labour job, always has been and always will be.
Its not high qualified and we have always made the money with the hours not with high pay.
But there is a bit freedom in, and if you do your work alright many companies will leavo you alone.
If you think “you’re better” no probs,proof it, be an engineer, a developer, an Director of a big company, a lawyer, than you can talk money.
If your skills are not up to that level, don’t be ashamed we are with millions there on a normal level.
And in 30 odd years it has paid for my house, it has paid for both my kids to go to a Dutch University, we have nice cars and every day food on the table.
And all in a days honest labour work, yes many hours, but still alive.
Roymondo:
Do you not understand the word “disproportionate”?
I do !!!
Very well, but my question to you is, why are you not a employer, invest everything what you have and what you can loan into the Business, pay your drivers 3200 a month and take home yourself some pocket money.
Maybe…just maybe you should take a reality pill…or two
Roymondo:
Do you not understand the word “disproportionate”?
I do !!!
Very well, but my question to you is, why are you not a employer, invest everything what you have and what you can loan into the Business, pay your drivers 3200 a month and take home yourself some pocket money.
Maybe…just maybe you should take a reality pill…or two
Question to me? Why would I want to be an employer? Why am I not a ballet dancer? Reality pill? Why? I’ve only asked the bloke if he understands a simple word. You can read, can’t you?
oman5:
I think it has bugger all to do with some kind of class envy. (working class wanting to emulate middle class without acquiring the skills)
Put simply, If I am in charge of potentially half a million quid’s worth of vehicle and load, in a job classified by the insurance industry as a high risk occupation (there is more potential risk for loss of life than most other jobs) where I am expected to manage my legislated driving time and have a higher standard of driving skills than joe public, why the hell should I do it for less than someone who stacks shelves in a supermarket? (I’ve done that job too rather than sign on)
Try telling someone who works at a firm of accountants that he is expected to sleep at his workplace all week for an extra 25 quid a night.
Our job is essential to the country. we are worth every penny we earn and more. the only reason we don’t earn more is that for every person who refuses to work for crap money there is someone out there who will. (perhaps one of those who don’t think they’re worth any more and don’t want others to think they are aspiring to be middle class without gaining the qualifications)
what a load of ZB.
your a lowly skilled wagon driver, so off your high horse
anyone can become a wagon driver within 2 weeks
oman5:
I think it has bugger all to do with some kind of class envy. (working class wanting to emulate middle class without acquiring the skills)
Put simply, If I am in charge of potentially half a million quid’s worth of vehicle and load, in a job classified by the insurance industry as a high risk occupation (there is more potential risk for loss of life than most other jobs) where I am expected to manage my legislated driving time and have a higher standard of driving skills than joe public, why the hell should I do it for less than someone who stacks shelves in a supermarket? (I’ve done that job too rather than sign on)
Try telling someone who works at a firm of accountants that he is expected to sleep at his workplace all week for an extra 25 quid a night.
Our job is essential to the country. we are worth every penny we earn and more. the only reason we don’t earn more is that for every person who refuses to work for crap money there is someone out there who will. (perhaps one of those who don’t think they’re worth any more and don’t want others to think they are aspiring to be middle class without gaining the qualifications)
what a load of ZB.
your a lowly skilled wagon driver, so off your high horse
anyone can become a wagon driver within 2 weeks
starfighter:
Eg a Monday to Friday day driver doing 0400-1400.
Forty hours basic = £300
Ten hours o/t = £112.50
Fifteen hours dark money = £33.75
=£446.25 before government theft.
I wouldn’t do 50 hours a week for that money. And I certainly wouldn’t get up at silly o’clock for it!
Why not?
That averages out at just under £9/hr, don’t think thats too bad.
Just another idiot that thinks he’s worth more than actually is, but its ok though atleast he can stay in bed and keep what he thinks is his pride and be proped up by the state, unlike our east euro friends that will do what ever it take to put food on the table…
Some here who would think you an idiot for having a sense of ones own self worth.
There will be many a driver “propped up by the state” because we now have a system which rewards an employer for paying a crap wage namely the working tax credit.
And yes our friends “will do whatever it takes to put food on the table” and that kind of ethic came by way of real hardship.
My question is who put the piranhas in with the guppies?
Did you invite this friend to lunch? I know I didn’t.
Employers don’t have this never ending pot of money that some people think, owning a business is a risk so although the owners earn far more they so rightly should otherwise they mite aswell become a employee.
We need to be part of europe end of and the influx of east europeans has given this country the wake up it needs!
[/quote
Does not mean an employer is better than their workers and deserves to earn a disproportionate income in comparison.
Anyone building up a company rely heavily on their workers, as well as the state and a functioning infrastructure regardless of the risk they take so the idea that’s its all down to their own work simply falls flat on its arse
Also I have been awake to the problems the influx of East Europeans and greater integration have caused, not a simple issue or a single issue either, but I know is it ain’t working in my favour and in this great democracy of ours I still have the right to say NO!
And so do many others.
So your saying that a company owner should earn the same as their employee’s? I agree companies do rely on their employees but business’s dont revolve around them.
I wont pick over dead meat for too long.
Anybody who reads what I have wrote should not be confused by its content,its simple really.
We have two sides of the fence and we also have those who sit on the fence but one thing for sure in the soon coming years we are all going to have to stand up and be counted one way or the other, this much is plain to see.
nuff sed.
oman5:
I think it has bugger all to do with some kind of class envy. (working class wanting to emulate middle class without acquiring the skills)
Put simply, If I am in charge of potentially half a million quid’s worth of vehicle and load, in a job classified by the insurance industry as a high risk occupation.
So you pay personaly if the load get damaged, stolen or missing in any other way?
You pay personaly if your vehicle get stolen, damaged or missing (maybe sold) in any other way?
Or maybe you pay personal the insurance for the vehicle and the driver?
If not than your whole argument is BS, useless not even worth the time to type it.
And since when is this job qualified as “High Risk” occupation?
It’s still very simple to insure a driver for “death in service” or injuries and premiums are lower than some of you may think.
Its a job I absolutly love, have done for 30 odd years and still adore, but it’s a labour job, always has been and always will be.
Its not high qualified and we have always made the money with the hours not with high pay.
But there is a bit freedom in, and if you do your work alright many companies will leavo you alone.
If you think “you’re better” no probs,proof it, be an engineer, a developer, an Director of a big company, a lawyer, than you can talk money.
If your skills are not up to that level, don’t be ashamed we are with millions there on a normal level.
And in 30 odd years it has paid for my house, it has paid for both my kids to go to a Dutch University, we have nice cars and every day food on the table.
And all in a days honest labour work, yes many hours, but still alive.
Excellent post - and a very realistic approach to the issue . I have both C&E and Cat D licences in addition to a professional qualification . As most people can pass a Cat C test with five days training , it stands to reason that pay will probably never be at the level of a highly skilled worker with additional qualificatons . ( supply and demand of labour dictates the rate paid ) Professional qualifications take years to obtain and one cannot guarantee to pass the final exams . Commercial vehicle drivers do an excellent job and work extremely hard . However ,driving is classed as an unskilled occupation and as such to earn the pay which some members of this forum expect you will have no choice but to work long hours . In theory it is impossible to be underpaid as employees would simply leave any employer who fails to pay the going rate and work elsewhere at a higher rate .
At our yard there’s around 15 class 2 drivers on Pallet work getting £7 ph flat rate, We all had a little meeting and decided its time to stand up and make a point and ask for a raise, if you don’t ask then you don’t get.
It’s primarily a family run buisiness but the owner has 20 mill+ and isn’t shy to flash it, last time a pay rise was mentioned in 2009 he claimed he couldn’t afford it and turned up the very next day with a brand new range rover, paid in full of course. Now I enjoy the job and have no qualms with the boss or anyone above me or anyone else, I live close to work too so although I have engineering quals, the commuting would take a lot of the better money, It’s a decent job at the end of the day and better than nothing at all in this ■■■■■■ climate, but everybody would like a bit more in the pocket to enjoy in the little time that we’re not at work!
Roymondo:
Do you not understand the word “disproportionate”?
I do hope so.
So why do you say jamdoms thinks employers should earn the same as employees? He specifically stated that employers earn more because of what they put into the business but then says that doesn’t mean they should earn disproportionately more.
What qualifications are there for the middle classes ?I wonder if its a module that counts towards the DCPC.?Most middle class people that I have met have a middle class set of parents.
Why is it that there are so many “footballer” drivers who think they should be getting over £500 a week? I cannot believe that some people on here think £450 take home is crap?
I’ve only just bought this morning in the village general store two glossy periodicals, Horse & hound and Cheshire life does that make me middle class?
chester:
I’ve only just bought this morning in the village general store two glossy periodicals, Horse & hound and Cheshire life does that make me middle class?
Depends if you’re planning on moving to one of those Prestbury mansions advertised in Cheshire Life!
oman5:
I think it has bugger all to do with some kind of class envy. (working class wanting to emulate middle class without acquiring the skills)
Put simply, If I am in charge of potentially half a million quid’s worth of vehicle and load, in a job classified by the insurance industry as a high risk occupation.
So you pay personaly if the load get damaged, stolen or missing in any other way?
You pay personaly if your vehicle get stolen, damaged or missing (maybe sold) in any other way?
Or maybe you pay personal the insurance for the vehicle and the driver?
If not than your whole argument is BS, useless not even worth the time to type it.
And since when is this job qualified as “High Risk” occupation?
It’s still very simple to insure a driver for “death in service” or injuries and premiums are lower than some of you may think.
Its a job I absolutly love, have done for 30 odd years and still adore, but it’s a labour job, always has been and always will be.
Its not high qualified and we have always made the money with the hours not with high pay.
But there is a bit freedom in, and if you do your work alright many companies will leavo you alone.
If you think “you’re better” no probs,proof it, be an engineer, a developer, an Director of a big company, a lawyer, than you can talk money.
If your skills are not up to that level, don’t be ashamed we are with millions there on a normal level.
And in 30 odd years it has paid for my house, it has paid for both my kids to go to a Dutch University, we have nice cars and every day food on the table.
And all in a days honest labour work, yes many hours, but still alive.
Are you serious? what you are effectively saying is “Don’t pay me well, I’m too thick to deserve it. so long as I got enough for a big telly, a couple of staffies and a flash audi/BMW/range-rover on hp(delete as applicable) I’ll accept my lowly position”
I am qualified to do a damned sight more than pilot a truck, my career path is my own choice and I’m doing what happens to suit me. I’m happy with what I earn, I just don’t agree that its simply an unskilled trained monkey job.
The last thing this industry needs is its own drivers de-skilling themselves. By its very nature haulage will pay the very least it can get away with, so giving them carte blanche to do so is detrimental in the extreme.
Just goes to show how true the old adage is about a driver being his own worst enemy.
I could go a hell of a lot further with the ammunition you’ve given me but in your case I can’t see the point.
and incidentally, it IS classed as a high risk occupation, at least since all the major insurance companies classified it as such.
This is quite interesting. eco-logica.co.uk/pdf/HealthProDrivers.pdf
Do you honestly believe that statistically you are no more likely, driving 60,000+ miles a year, to die in a road accident than someone who drives only 8000 miles a year? Jesus wept.
mickyblue:
Why is it that there are so many “footballer” drivers who think they should be getting over £500 a week? I cannot believe that some people on here think £450 take home is crap?
I think it depends on whether you are below £450 looking up or above it looking down.
I agree that £450 take home is ok but I’d balance that view with how many hours etc to get that £450.
Ill also agree that the job isn’t rocket science - but why should that mean crap pay? If that unskilled work makes a profit off the effort (or lack off) of that unskilled worker then said worker should get a reasonable reward.
What job in this industry would you class as “skilled”? Tbh I can only think of fitters. That’s not belittling drivers, just going from the majorities view of what is a skilled job.
