£500 per week benifits

[carryfast]

LandyLad:
carryfast,

I agree with your last two paragraphs completely.

I dont think anybody should be forced to contribute to NIC if they dont want to.

I am contracted out of Serps myself, but of course I still have to pay basic NIC.

But if we were able to opt out of the state taking NIC from us by default whether we liked it or not, then we would have to make sure that we had got really good comprehensive insurance cover from a private provider. -Yes? Thats what you say? Cant argue against that.

If you have paid into the state NIC pot and due to some unfortunate circumstance you cant (as opposed to cant be arsed to) work, then you need payment out of it and you should have been granted it and my views are that you should zbing well get it.

The argument I was forwarding for such a case was NOT that the test of your fitness to work is so stupidly stringent that nobody could ever qualify for it, no I was going along with the governments proposal to CAP benefits to some amount which would allow the claimant to live a comfortable but not WEALTHY lifestyle.

For me and most of the people I know £26000 is a LOT of money.

I differentiate between people who are WILLING to work but can’t and people who are determined NOT to work even though they are quite capable.

You keep criticising the current system as being ‘commie’. That is where I have been misunderstanding you. It is Khafka-esque rather than ‘commie’. It is just plain STUPID (in respect to people like you), not ‘commie’.

To summarise my view - If you have paid in to the welfare state system, then you are entitled to be paid out of it when you need to. Thats exactly the same theory as for Private Insurance. The difference is that labour government would make it as difficult as they can for ordinary hard working people like you to get anything out, whilst on the other hand they would fall over themselves to pay as much as they can to the bone idle feckless who have NEVER EVER had any intention of working at all.

That in my opinion is why we have a society where a lot of people cant be arsed to work and think that everything is to be done for them by the state. Under such a system, why should ANYBODY bother going to work?

landyLad

Firstly the ‘cap’ in question is ‘per household’ not ‘per person’ and £25,000 ‘per household’ isn’t really the same thing as a wealthy lifestyle…So as I’ve said in the not unusual situation in the south east of a household made up of a family in which there’s more than one,sometimes more than two,person/s,of working age contributing to the household’s outgoings,with a big mortgage an maybe dependents below working age,(two bedroomed terrace house for example goes for around £250,000 or more for three bedroom) and in which more than one end up out of work through redundancy or sickness or a combination of both it would probably mean that the house will be repo’d in which case we’ve now got a homeless family as well as an out of work one.

Under a private insurance type system there’s no such household ‘cap’ put on the policies and no one would be stupid enough to take any out with that type of proviso on it.If you’ve got a mortgage that’s based on the income of more than one wage earner you’d make sure that each wage earner is covered for their wages and you wouldn’t expect the insurers to then put a cap on the benfits provided which would just defeat the object of having the policies.

The dangerous thing about all of the state benefits system is that they just make people ‘think’ that they are covered when they aren’t and it’s just a big rip off state insurance policy that subsidieses low wage employment in the sense that workers don’t factor in the true costs of decent insurance cover in their wage requirements.While the state is just providing zb state cover at a rip off price in order to balance the books and fund the massive trade deficit caused by trading in the global free market economy.

Then to add insult to injury they get support for the whole scam,by people being duped,by government misinformation concerning so called imaginary non existent wide spread abuse of the system,which is actually the reason WHY genuine claimants,for the so called pittance of incapacity benefit,amongst others,have to face tests and a definition of disability which effectively make the cover worthless anyway.

It’s the government and employers that have more to lose by getting rid of the whole scam than the claimants do which is why the government won’t let anyone opt out and tell them where to shove it and have the tax back and ask the employers for enough to cover some decent insurance policies instead.

[landylad]

Can’t argue against your last post.

It all seems to fit what I have observed over the past 40 or so years.

I hope that you did have private insurance in place which is now relieving some of the financial pressures of losing a steady income?

I dont have anything other than a small amount of savings to fall back on and I am spending all my time developing some form of self-employment for the future.

LandyLad

[carryfast]

LandyLad:
Can’t argue against your last post.

It all seems to fit what I have observed over the past 40 or so years.

That’s how America came to be a superpower,where most people in the world wanted to live,in the 1950’s and 1960’s,but it’s all going down the tubes of the global free market economy today.

[dave_the_renegade]

Carryfast:

Dave the Renegade:
As a director of a disabled organisation I am trying to put the side of the people less fortunate than ourselves who wouldn’t be able to state their case on a PC.
By the way Carryfast what is your first name,its better than typing your user name all the time.
Cheers Dave.

You only need to see the Incapacity Benefits system in action to realise that much of landylad’s ideas have already been implemented long ago.The definition of disability under the ‘all work test’ means that taxes paid in by a truck driver,for sickness cover,under that section of the social security system,in the case of being declared unfit to carry out the job,only ‘actually’,in reality,covers the eventuality of effectively being paralysed from the kneck down and being totally,functionally unable,to carry out any task which could remotely be connected to any mythical non existent job dreamed up by the DWP.Who,of course,have an interest in not paying out the pittance it would have paid anyway and using the tax revenues saved to bail out the banks bad foreign debts instead.While the driver in question then has to get involved with all the vagaries of claiming Jobseekers Allowance for whatever type of job they send them for or even just work for their ‘benefits’ instead under landylad’s ideas.

But the description ‘learning difficulties’ would probably be applied in many types of case these days which wouldn’t have been years ago.Probably even in my own case in which a school history of disinterest and not getting on with teachers and not liking authority (with good reason in most cases) and getting out of the place at every opportunity and leaving without taking the required exams didn’t really bother my first employers or have any effect whatsoever in my ability to go out and work for a living.Unlike these days where it’s all about studying for pointless irrelevant qualifications and writing out a grovelling CV etc etc etc.

I think the issue today is more one of de industrialisation and lack of jobs in general and employers putting up barriers against employees that aren’t needed.Added to which we’ve got a tax funded socialist ‘social security’ system that’s subject to the ideas of people like landylad.

When what’s needed is jobs and civilised wages suited to a developed economy and workers being told not to rely on the false sense of security provided by the so called social security system and NHS and being allowed to opt out instead with the tax saved being put into some decent insurance policies.

Geoff.

Hi Geoff,
Been out of action for a few days.My sister has just told me today that her disability benefits are being stopped.She was a modern language teacher and head of department until she had back trouble.She has had three operations on her spine with the removal of discs.Under the new disability score you have to be virtually completely incapacitated to get any benefits.There is no way she can go back to her job as her health isn’t up to it.
Also the government are saying they are going to get people back into work which is a joke as there are very few jobs.
Cheers Dave.

[carryfast]

Dave the Renegade:

Carryfast:

Dave the Renegade:
As a director of a disabled organisation I am trying to put the side of the people less fortunate than ourselves who wouldn’t be able to state their case on a PC.
By the way Carryfast what is your first name,its better than typing your user name all the time.
Cheers Dave.

You only need to see the Incapacity Benefits system in action to realise that much of landylad’s ideas have already been implemented long ago.The definition of disability under the ‘all work test’ means that taxes paid in by a truck driver,for sickness cover,under that section of the social security system,in the case of being declared unfit to carry out the job,only ‘actually’,in reality,covers the eventuality of effectively being paralysed from the kneck down and being totally,functionally unable,to carry out any task which could remotely be connected to any mythical non existent job dreamed up by the DWP.Who,of course,have an interest in not paying out the pittance it would have paid anyway and using the tax revenues saved to bail out the banks bad foreign debts instead.While the driver in question then has to get involved with all the vagaries of claiming Jobseekers Allowance for whatever type of job they send them for or even just work for their ‘benefits’ instead under landylad’s ideas.

But the description ‘learning difficulties’ would probably be applied in many types of case these days which wouldn’t have been years ago.Probably even in my own case in which a school history of disinterest and not getting on with teachers and not liking authority (with good reason in most cases) and getting out of the place at every opportunity and leaving without taking the required exams didn’t really bother my first employers or have any effect whatsoever in my ability to go out and work for a living.Unlike these days where it’s all about studying for pointless irrelevant qualifications and writing out a grovelling CV etc etc etc.

I think the issue today is more one of de industrialisation and lack of jobs in general and employers putting up barriers against employees that aren’t needed.Added to which we’ve got a tax funded socialist ‘social security’ system that’s subject to the ideas of people like landylad.

When what’s needed is jobs and civilised wages suited to a developed economy and workers being told not to rely on the false sense of security provided by the so called social security system and NHS and being allowed to opt out instead with the tax saved being put into some decent insurance policies.

Geoff.

Hi Geoff,
Been out of action for a few days.My sister has just told me today that her disability benefits are being stopped.She was a modern language teacher and head of department until she had back trouble.She has had three operations on her spine with the removal of discs.Under the new disability score you have to be virtually completely incapacitated to get any benefits.There is no way she can go back to her job as her health isn’t up to it.
Also the government are saying they are going to get people back into work which is a joke as there are very few jobs.
Cheers Dave.

That seems like an unfortunate co incidence with the discussions we’ve been having on here.Her situation is (very) similar to what happened to me.It’s just lucky for me that I had no confidence in the social security system from day 1 from the time I started work after leaving school.

But hopefully I can use my experience to help others to realise just what a total waste of time zb system that the so called social security ‘welfare state’ really is while they’ve got time to do something about it.

[dave_the_renegade]

But the description ‘learning difficulties’ would probably be applied in many types of case these days which wouldn’t have been years ago.Probably even in my own case in which a school history of disinterest and not getting on with teachers and not liking authority (with good reason in most cases) and getting out of the place at every opportunity and leaving without taking the required exams didn’t really bother my first employers or have any effect whatsoever in my ability to go out and work for a living.Unlike these days where it’s all about studying for pointless irrelevant qualifications and writing out a grovelling CV etc etc etc.

I think the issue today is more one of de industrialisation and lack of jobs in general and employers putting up barriers against employees that aren’t needed.Added to which we’ve got a tax funded socialist ‘social security’ system that’s subject to the ideas of people like landylad.

When what’s needed is jobs and civilised wages suited to a developed economy and workers being told not to rely on the false sense of security provided by the so called social security system and NHS and being allowed to opt out instead with the tax saved being put into some decent insurance policies.

Geoff.
[/quote]
Hi Geoff,
Been out of action for a few days.My sister has just told me today that her disability benefits are being stopped.She was a modern language teacher and head of department until she had back trouble.She has had three operations on her spine with the removal of discs.Under the new disability score you have to be virtually completely incapacitated to get any benefits.There is no way she can go back to her job as her health isn’t up to it.
Also the government are saying they are going to get people back into work which is a joke as there are very few jobs.
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
That seems like an unfortunate co incidence with the discussions we’ve been having on here.Her situation is (very) similar to what happened to me.It’s just lucky for me that I had no confidence in the social security system from day 1 from the time I started work after leaving school.

But hopefully I can use my experience to help others to realise just what a total waste of time zb system that the so called social security ‘welfare state’ really is while they’ve got time to do something about it.
[/quote]
Today’s headlines concerning Chris Huhne just highlights just what a shower of tossers are running the country.