tachograph:
The original question was “is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal”,
And the correct answer is still…no. Its not legal. 
Mike-C:
Sure i am !! Eat ya hat !!!
eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s … 0394&lg=en = Judgment of the Court (Sixth Chamber) of 9 June 1994. 
1994!!! 
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006
on the harmonisation of certain social legislation relating to road transport and amending
Council Regulations (EEC) No 3821/85 and (EC) No 2135/98 and repealing Council Regulation
(EEC) No 3820/85
tachograph:
The original question was “is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal”
And the correct answer is still…yes. Its legal
Well … unless you’re still working to (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 
Everyone is on about ‘cards’ but this could be looked at from a Digi point of view where the driver puts it in at the start of the week and then removes it at the end. Both card & digi use the same regs.
If the driver was to put the digi in at 0600 on a monday then the 6 X 24 hour periods would finish at 0600 the following sunday.
All the digi driver does is to change the mode switch to indicate what they are doing at any point during that 6 X 24 hour week.
At the end of the week, lets say he worked right up to 0600 on the sunday, he does a print out and looks at it.
The question he asks himself is this - “have I conformed to the regulation that says I must show a DAILY rest in a 24 hour period from the last DAILY (or weekly) rest that I took?”
That answer being a yes would mean that the driver has done so and satisfied the criteria for that particular regulation.
That regulation makes no refernce to the other regulation about 6 X 24 hour periods and the regulation about 6 X 24 hours periods makes no reference to the one about the DAILY rest requirement WITHIN a 24 hour period - the two are not linked - unless a person CHOOSES to make a connection that is not written there.
I’ve done that enough times on here and got shot for it
tachograph:
Mike-C:
Sure i am !! Eat ya hat !!!eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s … 0394&lg=en = Judgment of the Court (Sixth Chamber) of 9 June 1994.
1994!!!
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006
on the harmonisation of certain social legislation relating to road transport and amending
Council Regulations (EEC) No 3821/85 and (EC) No 2135/98 and repealing Council Regulation
(EEC) No 3820/85tachograph:
The original question was “is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal”And the correct answer is still…yes. Its legal
Well … unless you’re still working to (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985
You’re being ridiculous. The Court ruling specifies exactly what a “24 hour period” is.
turnip:
NO one mentioned starting a 7th 24 hr period.
Read the thread, YES, a few people did.
Got to clear my throat for this, excuse me please…
And the correct answer is still…no. Its not legal.
Thank you.
I’m starting to really quite enjoy this, bizarre.
ROG:
Everyone is on about ‘cards’ but this could be looked at from a Digi point of view where the driver puts it in at the start of the week and then removes it at the end. Both card & digi use the same regs.If the driver was to put the digi in at 0600 on a monday then the 6 X 24 hour periods would finish at 0600 the following sunday.
All the digi driver does is to change the mode switch to indicate what they are doing at any point during that 6 X 24 hour week.
At the end of the week, lets say he worked right up to 0600 on the sunday, he does a print out and looks at it.
The question he asks himself is this - “have I conformed to the regulation that says I must show a DAILY rest in a 24 hour period from the last DAILY (or weekly) rest that I took?”
That answer being a yes would mean that the driver has done so and satisfied the criteria for that particular regulation.
That regulation makes no refernce to the other regulation about 6 X 24 hour periods and the regulation about 6 X 24 hours periods makes no reference to the one about the DAILY rest requirement WITHIN a 24 hour period - the two are not linked - unless a person CHOOSES to make a connection that is not written there.I’ve done that enough times on here and got shot for it
Everyone is not on about cards. Your whole argument was that it was not clarified what a ‘24 hour period’ is. Or you choose to read different interpretations into it for different purposes i.e daily/weekly rest. That court ruling specifically explains what a ‘24 hour period’ is, and as you now know it isn’t specifically an actual 24 hours.
It really is so simple its untrue. Everytime you start work you start a 24 hour period. Dead easy, and next time you start work you start another one, doesn’t matter if you only work for 6 hours and have a 9 hour daily rest , the next time you start work you will again start another 24 hour perid.
Any volounteers to pay that lads fine if he gets done for it?
Mike-C:
Any volounteers to pay that lads fine if he gets done for it?
Yeah, the guys who said/say it’s legal, 'cause they must have made a mint writing fiction stories.
Coffeeholic:
tachograph:
So the answer for countries working to EU regulation (EC) No 561/2006 is that there’s no reason why you should not have 7 cards between weekly rest periods.I disagree. Each time you resume work after a rest period you begin a new 24 hour period and after 6 of those you require a weekly rest period, which begins when you finish work on your 6th shift as the daily rest for that shift is extended into a weekly rest period.
Thats correct
Coffeeholic:
The beginning a weekly rest period no later than 144 hours after commencing work following a weekly rest period thing is there to take account of a driver who may have longer daily rest periods between shifts. Someone who worked irregular hours could have gaps of 15 - 20 hours between shifts for example so could reach 144 hours before completing 6 shifts. It could be possible they may not get into a 5th shift and require a weekly rest period because they have come up against the 144 hour rule.
This bit is not correct There is no 144 hour rule
Mike-C:
The Court ruling specifies exactly what a “24 hour period” is.
You’re right it does specify what a 24 hour period is but most people over the age of six don’t need it explained to them 
the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
Not that it really matters because it’s been amended by far more recent regulations anyway
Where’s the regulation that says that any period of less than 24 hours should be regarded as a period of 24 hours for the tachograph regulations.
tachograph
Well … unless you’re still working to (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985
if i am not mistaken the regs you on about are for
COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 3821/85
of 20 December 1985
on recording equipment in road transport
these are for driver hours
EU regulation (EC) No 561/2006
tachograph:
Where’s the regulation that says that any period of less than 24 hours should be regarded as a period of 24 hours for the tachograph regulations.
Good grief, even the Sir Stephen Hawkins’ of this world don’t know how to bend the space-time continuum like you can…… I think you should be put forward for the Nobel prize, no, I really do
delboytwo:
~snip
Yes Del that should have been (EEC) No 3820/85 
I think some off you are pulling each others chain and going round in circles, and not reading the Regs as there are written
tachograph:
Mike-C:
The Court ruling specifies exactly what a “24 hour period” is.You’re right it does specify what a 24 hour period is but most people over the age of six don’t need it explained to them
the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
Not that it really matters because it’s been amended by far more recent regulations anyway
Where’s the regulation that says that any period of less than 24 hours should be regarded as a period of 24 hours for the tachograph regulations.
Are you acting the goat?
29 In its judgment in Van Swieten, cited above, the Court defined the expression “period of 24 hours” as meaning the period commencing at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
30 The reply to the second question should therefore be that the term “day”, within the meaning of Regulations Nos 3820/85 and 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
There is really some part of that you don’t understand?
Ok, i’ll summarise. “day”, “daily driving period”,“daily working period”, “24 hour period” are all for the purposes of this act the same.
The recent (2006) changes and amendements use the words “24 hour period” instead of “daily driving period”. But the basis is the same, you are allowed six of them. A 24 hour period starts when you start and finishes when you finish, irrispective of if you have used it all up or not.
delboytwo:
I think some off you are pulling each others chain and going round in circles, and not reading the Regs as there are written
You fully understand the Court ruling Del?
Mike-C:
Are you acting the goat?29 In its judgment in Van Swieten, cited above, the Court defined the expression “period of 24 hours” as meaning the period commencing at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
30 The reply to the second question should therefore be that the term “day”, within the meaning of Regulations Nos 3820/85 and 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
ERR… that’s a ruling on the old regs which have been surpassed by the new regs.
I cannot remember which of the VOSA experts it was that said to me that the particular part you refer to has NOT been taken on by the new regs - I’ll try and find out what the exact phrase he used was as it was in a more legal term but meant the same as what I just said - that court ruling has nowt to do with the 06 regs
Fair play though - good investigative work
Mike-C:
delboytwo:
I think some off you are pulling each others chain and going round in circles, and not reading the Regs as there are writtenYou fully understand the Court ruling Del?
yes i have read the link you put in and if you read this
THE COURT (Sixth Chamber),
in answer to the questions referred to it by the Politierechtbank te Hasselt by order of 9 November 1992, hereby rules:
The “daily working period” within the meaning of Article 15(2) of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 on recording equipment in road transport, comprises the driving time, all other periods of work, the period of availability, breaks in work and, where the driver divides his daily rest into two or three separate periods, such a period, provided that it does not exceed one hour. The “daily working period” commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period, or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, following the rest period of at least eight hours’ duration. It ends at the beginning of a daily rest period or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, at the beginning of a rest period extending over a minimum of eight consecutive hours.
The term “day”, within the meaning of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport, and of Regulation No 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term "period of 24 hours", which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
and as it says after a daily rest, so in fact a day can be 12 hours, as long as you have a rest and you start another day as stated above by
ROG:
There is a really simple answer as to wether this is legal or ilegal -
Will VOSA prosecute you for doing it
Answer - NO
Why not
Because they are the ones that KNOW and enforce these regulations.So either ALL the VOSA and their legal bods are wrong or a few drivers are…
Which is it
Well just last week we had a VOSA official tell one of our members when he rang them for advice on the interrupted rest rule while using ferries that, and I quote - “It’s not 2 movements anymore, it’s 1 movement. The rules changed recently.”
They don’t all get it right.
ROG:
Mike-C:
Are you acting the goat?29 In its judgment in Van Swieten, cited above, the Court defined the expression “period of 24 hours” as meaning the period commencing at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
30 The reply to the second question should therefore be that the term “day”, within the meaning of Regulations Nos 3820/85 and 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
ERR… that’s a ruling on the old regs which have been surpassed by the new regs.
I cannot remember which of the VOSA experts it was that said to me that the particular part you refer to has NOT been taken on by the new regs - I’ll try and find out what the exact phrase he used was as it was in a more legal term but meant the same as what I just said - that court ruling has nowt to do with the 06 regsFair play though - good investigative work
That court ruling is a ruling on ‘definitions’. The 2006 regs do indeed superceed the 85 regs, but only in so far as clarifications with only a few minor changes. A legal definition is exactly that and does not change with the passage of time. Your VOSA expert is hardly gonna say yeah thats right, we cocked up with our 144 hour thing that we mistakenly made up because we misunderstood the rules from the EU and where not aware of the prescise definitions is he?
delboytwo:
Mike-C:
delboytwo:
I think some off you are pulling each others chain and going round in circles, and not reading the Regs as there are writtenYou fully understand the Court ruling Del?
yes i have read the link you put in and if you read this
THE COURT (Sixth Chamber),
in answer to the questions referred to it by the Politierechtbank te Hasselt by order of 9 November 1992, hereby rules:
The “daily working period” within the meaning of Article 15(2) of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 on recording equipment in road transport, comprises the driving time, all other periods of work, the period of availability, breaks in work and, where the driver divides his daily rest into two or three separate periods, such a period, provided that it does not exceed one hour. The “daily working period” commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period, or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, following the rest period of at least eight hours’ duration. It ends at the beginning of a daily rest period or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, at the beginning of a rest period extending over a minimum of eight consecutive hours.
The term “day”, within the meaning of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport, and of Regulation No 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term "period of 24 hours", which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
and as it says after a daily rest, so in fact a day can be 12 hours, as long as you have a rest and you start another day as stated above by
Thats correct Del a day can be 12 hours. And we know from the ruling that “24 hour period” is the same as a day so in this context a “24 hour period” may actually only be 12 hours. Are we agreed?