Summary of EU limits on drivers’ hours
Weekly rest
A regular weekly rest of at least 45 hours, or a reduced weekly rest of at least 24 hours, must be started no later than the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest. In any two consecutive weeks, a driver must have at least two weekly rests one of which must be at least 45 hours long. A weekly rest that falls in two weeks may be counted in either week but not in both. Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.
just do 6 days like it says in the book,why do you want to work 7 days or have to work 7 days? its been like it for years work 6 ,off 1,the best way to do it,
I am not 100% sure on Swiss driving laws, i always just obeyed the UK driving laws out there…
However, and i will get Johnny to clarify ths when he gets back…
The Swiss seem to work under their own set of rules, i do know the Swiss can quite legally do 14 days on the trot, taking only daily, not weekly rest periods…
Now, last year i delivered a machine onto a stand at the Truck show at the NEC, and i asked a VOSA guy on te next stand which laws the Swiss have to follow… He got his book, and told me EU Rules, then changed it to AETR rules, then looked blankly at his book and put it down and said he didnt know, as they were not listed under either the EU or AETR rules…
It does seem to me, having worked for them, that they almost appear to be a law unto themselves(i know they’re not), as no one seems to know which laws they follow…(I got pulled at Pease Pottage and overheard a VOSA guy shout to his mate “We’ve got another Swiss one”, to which his mate replied rather sarcastically “Oh great”
ken57:
just do 6 days like it says in the book,why do you want to work 7 days or have to work 7 days? its been like it for years work 6 ,off 1,the best way to do it,
No one is working 7 days mate…
its 7 cards in 6 days…
ken57:
just do 6 days like it says in the book,why do you want to work 7 days or have to work 7 days? its been like it for years work 6 ,off 1,the best way to do it,
You cannot work 7 days - that’s 7 X 24 consecutive periods, but you can work over 7 days - example start on a Monday, finish Saturday noon and restart Sunday noon, having had a reduced weekly rest of 24 hours.
It does say 144 hours max in the book which is equivalent to 6 full 24 hour periods but not necessarily 6 seperate ‘days’
Doing 6 on and 1 off every week is likely to be a problem for a driver as every other week there must be at least a full 45 hour weekly rest.
Oh FFS, 6 days, 6 shifts, 6 twenty four hour periods. The only time I’ve done more than 6 was working for trip money with a Dutch company and that was bent as a 9 bob note. Stop trying to be so [zb] clever.
Scotchbaz:
Oh FFS, 6 days, 6 shifts, 6 twenty four hour periods. The only time I’ve done more than 6 was working for trip money with a Dutch company and that was bent as a 9 bob note. Stop trying to be so [zb] clever.
geebee45:
Must admit to getting totally lost trying to follow the different answers to the question. Hopefully this will clarify the situation;
Absolutely nothing wrong with having 7 ‘charts’ for 6 ‘days.’ A couple of things we have to make clear;
we are talking about a journey run under the EU rules contained in Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006. Between each ‘daily driving period’ there is a ‘daily rest period’ which will be at least 11 hours, or where allowed 9 hours. The total driving in the fixed week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 the following Sunday) does not exceed 56 hours. The total of work & driving in the fixed week cannot exceed 60 hours. Between the end of the weekly rest and the start of the next weekly rest there may be a maximum of six 24 hour periods (144 hours) or put it another way; if you end a weekly rest at 06:00 Wednesday you must start your next weekly rest no later than 06:00 on Tuesday the following week.
This pattern of having more cards than days is typical of short shifts with not very much driving in them, used to see it with some market traders.
Oh dear !!!
Someone needs to re read article 8 of REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006.
Article 8 descibes thus…
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
We can confidently conclude that a 24 hour period starts when you resume work after a daily or weekly rest period.
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
Six shifts/cards/charts or however anyone wants to phrase it means a weekly rest is due.
The only way you could legally have 7 cards in 6 days if the shifts where so ridiculously short and you managed to pop a weekly rest in there somewhere, i’m to tired to work out if its mathmatically possible.
Good to see the market traders getting some slack !!
BuzzardBoy:
So,basically, is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal??
In a word, no, as I’ve just stated EU regs (and AETR) are to be taken not as a separate entity but in conjunction with the rules of the country of origin.
Could you expand on what regulations will be broken if 7 cards are used ?
I can expand on it !! Using a 7th card you are starting your 7th 24 hour period. The regs state quite clearly that a weekly rest period is due after six.
tachograph:
As far as I can see Switzerland have agreed to use EU driving rules so the whole journey will most likely not go outside of the EU regulations and therefore is legal with 7 cards
By the way when we signed up to the EU we agreed to abide by certain rules, all EU countries have adopted EU driving and tachograph rules (theoretically anyway ) and these do in fact take precedence unless there’s an exemption or derogation in place, in the case of an exemption being in place then the countries domestic rules come into operation.
Thats a load of non applicable bunkum !! Its nowt to do with AETR, the Swiss or Domestic anything its all clearly contained in Article 8 of REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
To save you reading it all here is the important bit…
The driving period between any two daily rest periods or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, hereinafter called ‘daily driving period’, shall not exceed nine hours. It may be extended twice in any one week to 10 hours.
A driver must, after no more than six daily driving periods, take a weekly rest period as defined in Article 8 (3).
BuzzardBoy:
So,basically, is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal??
In a word, no, as I’ve just stated EU regs (and AETR) are to be taken not as a separate entity but in conjunction with the rules of the country of origin.
Could you expand on what regulations will be broken if 7 cards are used ?
I can expand on it !! Using a 7th card you are starting your 7th 24 hour period. The regs state quite clearly that a weekly rest period is due after six.
If you took the trouble to read the thread you’d understand by now that the 24 hour period you’re referring to is only relevant to the daily rest period that must be completed within the 24 hour period.
Mike-C:
tachograph:
As far as I can see Switzerland have agreed to use EU driving rules so the whole journey will most likely not go outside of the EU regulations and therefore is legal with 7 cards
By the way when we signed up to the EU we agreed to abide by certain rules, all EU countries have adopted EU driving and tachograph rules (theoretically anyway ) and these do in fact take precedence unless there’s an exemption or derogation in place, in the case of an exemption being in place then the countries domestic rules come into operation.
Thats a load of non applicable bunkum !! Its nowt to do with AETR, the Swiss or Domestic anything its all clearly contained in Article 8 of REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
Again if you took the trouble to read the thread before disagreeing you’d understand that the question arose of what regulations apply in Switzerland.
The fact that AETR rules wasn’t even mentioned in the quote seems to indicate how much you read before disagreeing
Mike as far as the 6 x 24 hour periods is concerned, a 24 hour period is a period of 24 hours, honestly Mike it’s not rocket science
To save you reading it all here is the important bit…
The driving period between any two daily rest periods or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, hereinafter called ‘daily driving period’, shall not exceed nine hours. It may be extended twice in any one week to 10 hours.
A driver must, after no more than six daily driving periods, take a weekly rest period as defined in Article 8 (3).
So when did this journey become an AETR journey? or even a Swiss Journey? Was it when the truck arrived in Letchworth? Was it after he tipped there? Was it maybe because he had a reload in Tamworth, Solihull and Littlehampton?
Or was it because it was ADR and the ferry was booked from Tilbury? Maybe AETR starts in Zeebrugge
I have based most of my decisions on European, African and Asian laws on what the IRU told me, so let me check the oracle and see what it says about Switzerland / AETR.
Key changes to EU Regulation 3820
56 Hour weekly driving limit: This limit was introduced despite IRU arguments that this was unnecessary in view of existing driving time limitations.
11 hours undivided daily rest or 12 hours divided daily rest: The option to take 11 hours undivided rest was opposed in Parliament but supported by Council and finally adopted in Conciliation.
Flexibility to split daily rest into three parts: 12 hours daily rest must now be split into a maximum of two parts, the first comprising three hours and the second nine hours.
Retain simplified break requirements: The final provisions on breaks are much simpler than those proposed by Council but less flexible than the existing rules. After 4.5 hours driving a 45 minute break is required. This can be replaced by two breaks within this driving period: the first equalling 15 minutes and the second equalling 30 minutes.
Practical Weekly Rest: Despite arguments that this was excessive, a full 45 hours weekly rest is now required every second week. Weekly rest must now also be taken after no more than six 24 hour (driving) periods.
12 day continuous driving derogation for occasional international passenger services removed: Despite efforts to maintain ‘the 12 day rule’ the derogation was removed by Council during Conciliation.
Inversion of the burden of proof: The Conciliation agreement places primary responsibility on transport undertakings for infringements committed by drivers. However, those contracting transport services (i.e. shippers, forwarders, etc.) must also ensure that their instructions do not cause infringements of the rules.
Wheel Nut:
So when did this journey become an AETR journey? or even a Swiss Journey? Was it when the truck arrived in Letchworth? Was it after he tipped there? Was it maybe because he had a reload in Tamworth, Solihull and Littlehampton?
Or was it because it was ADR and the ferry was booked from Tilbury? Maybe AETR starts in Zeebrugge
Mike-C:
Here is the previous regs… Community Drivers’ Hours (Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85)
To save you reading it all here is the important bit…
A driver must, after no more than six daily driving periods, take a weekly rest period as defined in Article 8 (3).
Where is this exact wording in the current regs
1 - A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.
So lets forget about 144 hours being 6 X 24 for a moment and take a different slant on this -
Lets do it by TIME.
After taking a full WEEKLY rest, a driver wants to work the maximum during this week before taking his next WEEKLY rest so puts his digicard in at the start of the working week which is 0600 Monday morning, looks at the above regulation and says “I have until 0600 Sunday morning until I have to take my next WEEKLY rest”
That is a correct statement and we now have the TIME firmly set for the next WEEKLY rest
He looks through the regs and sees that there is NOTHING else that is written about WHEN to take the next WEEKLY rest
2 - Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.
Is there anything in the regulations that says anything about a maximum number of driving periods or daily duty periods (shifts) ? - NO - (there was in the old regs)
All this regulation says is that within a certain period, in this case they have unfortunately chosen 24 hours, WITHIN which a DAILY rest must be taken.
So lets look at this time period - they chose 24 hours but they could change it to any period they wanted by a change in the law - they could say that they wanted a driver to have 7 hours rest within a 14 hour period - it does not matter as neither will have any effect on the WEEKLY rest regulation in quote 1.
The acronym KISS sums this whole thread up, otherwise things become FUBAR.
“ROG”, I really hope you don’t teach drivers’ hour’s regulations to new drivers. This thread is not about imaginary hours of work to showcase how gifted you are, so please stick to the question first asked;
BuzzardBoy wrote:
Right, bear with me on this before you say its not legal…
My mate Johnny(Scania Doctor on T/N) is in Letchworth tonight, Tommorow he has tip Letchworth, reload Tamworth, Solihull and Littlehampton then due to ADR reasons ship out of Tilbury at 10am Wednesday Morning… Now, due to parking issues at Tilbury he is going to park at Littlehampton tomorrow night, then run the 2 and half hours to the boat Wednesday morning… Now the boat crossing is 9 hours, so he will have had a legal break by the time he docks in Zeebrugge(or made up a split 11 ferry rest), So therefore will have a completely clean card to start with from Zeebee…But, if he works Saturday, which is looking likely at this stage, that will make a 7th Card(He’s on Digi, but you know what i mean), but all his break wil be legal and above board…
So,basically, is it legal to use 7 cards in 6 days, providing all your breaks and rests are legal?? [/quote]
The answer to this question is that it is illegal.
Some individuals become trainers because they are passionate about sharing their knowledge and about helping people. Others become trainers because they were [zb] at the job in question. Which one are you ROG
) and these do in fact take precedence unless there’s an exemption or derogation in place, in the case of an exemption being in place then the countries domestic rules come into operation.