And admittedly its not a regulation, but it is a report on the regulations. And it says there is a limit of six driving periods per week.
parliament.uk/commons/lib/re … -00340.pdf
ROG:
Mike-C:
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 411:EN:PDFHere is a case that actually defines the meaning of “24 periods” , it does so very clearly and concisely…
eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s … 0394&lg=enThe first link does not include the ammendments so is not up to date for EU 561/2006
The second link just refers to a ‘day’ having the same meaning as in the current article 8.2.
Neither addresses the issues being discussed in the last 12 pages - simples !!
Yeah right…
If you don’t believe me then ask a person who is good at reading law - I’'ll bet you get the same answers to both
ROG:
If you don’t believe me then ask a person who is good at reading law - I’'ll bet you get the same answers to both
ROG, its not a case of me believing you. I don’t as a matter of fact and its only recently you have got to grasps with the current legislation and taken on the mantle of expert at it, you’ve given more wrong answers than right ones i reckon. Not a good percentage for someone to take a chance on your say so. I’m certainly no expert on it far from it, but i can read black and white and understand it.
We can agree to differ on it. But if i was you i would think twice before repeating the 144 hour theory, as its not in any legislation. This should be pointed out to anyone asking advice on the matter, as we know it should not be a problem here in UK, in other states it will be. Its best if people are properly informed of the facts before carrying on assumptions.
can i ask why we are use this rule
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
this as nothing to do with the 24 hour period
this is only telling you to take a weekly rest and does not define a day
the reason the EU as used this term IMHO is cos as drive do not start on a fixed day there say a rest as to be taken at the end of 6x24 hour periods
in the links Mike -c put up there only taking about the day
lets look at it
Article 15 .2
â–¼B
2. Drivers shall use the record sheets â–ºM6 or driver cards â—„ every
day on which they are driving, starting from the moment they take over
the vehicle. The record sheet â–ºM6 or driver card â—„ shall not be
withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal
is otherwise authorized. No record sheet â–ºM6 or driver
card â—„ may be used to cover a period longer than that for which it
is intended.
so it saying that a card as to be used at the start of your working day and it can be removed at the end
and it says that there
also the next card goes in at the next start of work
so looking at that you could use more than one card
now lest look at the judgement
the judgement as defined it as
29 In its judgment in Van Swieten, cited above, the Court defined the expression “period of 24 hours” as meaning the period commencing at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
30 The reply to the second question should therefore be that the term “day”, within the meaning of Regulations Nos 3820/85 and 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
so basing on that each time you come back to start work from a rest you have a new 24 hour period that period could in fact only be 1 minute long if working under EU regs (and before anyone say no one works on 1 minute that not true cos i have heard on here that some have come to wok but gone home very soon after arriving)
IMHO opinion the only reason there say 24 hour period with regards the day is to do with what you after do in that 24 hour period your rest as to be within the 24 hour period that’s all
it does not say you can only driver 9 hours in 24 hours,no it says
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
you must also consider this bit
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
if the above quote was required to show a reduced rest, the only way you could have a reduced rest is for the 24 hour period be a fixed time of 24 hours but we know it not fixed
it telling you that you would only be able to take a reduced if the 11 hour rest would not fit within the 24 hour period
now lest look at this
you are a driver that works 6 am till 9 pm you can have a reduced rest cos it within the 24 hour period
you are a driver that works 6 am till 6 pm you can’t have a reduced rest cos you can get 11+ hours within that 24 hours cos its within the 24 hour period base on what you have all be saying that there is only 6 shifts in 6 x 24 hour periods
so if you what to do a reduced rest you would be only able to have one if the 24 hour period is new as soon as a rest as finished therefore the 24 hour period is for one thing only and that is to get your required rest within
delboytwo:
can i ask why we are use this ruleA weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.this as nothing to do with the 24 hour period
this is only telling you to take a weekly rest and does not define a day
It doesn’t need to define a day, the regulations don’t require you to take a weekly rest after a certain number of days.
delboytwo:
the reason the EU as used this term IMHO is cos as drive do not start on a fixed day there say a rest as to be taken at the end of 6x24 hour periods
Don’t think anybody is disputing that fact Del
delboytwo:
so looking at that you could use more than one card
The number of cards isn’t in dispute, you could use 6 cards in a single shift if you drove 6 different vehicles.
if you look at driving time in the EU regs it does not say you can on driver 9 hours in 24 does no it says
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
delboytwo:
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.if the above quote was required to show a reduced rest, the only way you could have a reduced rest is for the 24 hour period be a fixed time of 24 hours but we know it not fixed
So how do drivers take a reduced rest then if you are saying it is only possible if the 24 hour period is fixed but it isn’t? Contradicting yourself there.
delboytwo:
it telling you that you would only be able to take a reduced if the 11 hour rest would not fit within the 24 hour period
Start 06:00, work until 19:00, resume work 04:00. That’s a reduced rest but the 11 hour rest would have fitted into the 24-hour period.
You do realise this whole thread is about weekly rest and all this stuff you are posting about daily rest is irrelevant? 
Coffeeholic:
the regulations don’t require you to take a weekly rest after a certain number of days.
Although it does not say ‘days’ it is a day by default as there are 24 hours in any one day - I don’t think anyone would dispute that fact !!
6 X 24 hours = 6 days = 144 hours = 8640 minutes - all those are the same
Coffeeholic:
You do realise this whole thread is about weekly rest and all this stuff you are posting about daily rest is irrelevant?
but if you read my post you will see i was showing some thing that Mike-C posted in say why we now have the wording of 24 hour period cam about
Coffeeholic:
if you look at driving time in the EU regs it does not say you can on driver 9 hours in 24 does no it saysThe daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
it does not say you can on driver 9 hours
in this bit there a typo
it should say it does not say you can only driver 9 hours in 24 hours,no it says
Coffeeholic:
So how do drivers take a reduced rest then if you are saying it is only possible if the 24 hour period is fixed but it isn’t? Contradicting yourself there.
please read what i said
delboytwo:
you must also consider this bitIf the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.if the above quote was required to show a reduced rest, the only way you could have a reduced rest is for the 24 hour period be a fixed time of 24 hours but we know it not fixed
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
the regulations don’t require you to take a weekly rest after a certain number of days.Although it does not say ‘days’ it is a day by default as there are 24 hours in any one day - I don’t think anyone would dispute that fact !!
6 X 24 hours = 6 days = 144 hours = 8640 minutes - all those are the same
This would not be an unusual shift for me. And i make it that my first day,daily driving period or 24 hour period (Monday)was only 20 hours in length. I’ve started my second day,shift,24 hour period,driving period or whatever you want to call it at 2am. I know for sure i have started my second days work
I also know i have driven for 12.5 hours in a space of 24 hours.
You don’t find shift examples like that in the VOSA/DfT handbook !!
Mike-C:
This would not be an unusual shift for me. And i make it that my first day,daily driving period or 24 hour period (Monday)was only 20 hours in length. I’ve started my second day,shift,24 hour period,driving period or whatever you want to call it at 2am. I know for sure i have started my second days work
I also know i have driven for 12.5 hours in a space of 24 hours.
You don’t find shift examples like that in the VOSA/DfT handbook !!
Which would be perfectly acceptable because of this!
‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving
time between the end of one daily rest period and the
beginning of the following daily rest period or between a
daily rest period and a weekly rest period;
Mike-C:
This would not be an unusual shift for me. And i make it that my first day,daily driving period or 24 hour period (Monday)was only 20 hours in length. I’ve started my second day,shift,24 hour period,driving period or whatever you want to call it at 2am. I know for sure i have started my second days work
I also know i have driven for 12.5 hours in a space of 24 hours.
You don’t find shift examples like that in the VOSA/DfT handbook !!
Stuff starting at 2am, thats still the middle of the night 
.
I’d take an 11 off and start at 4, or have another 45 break, do another hours drive and then have 9 off plus 15 minutes and start at 4.
I’d do either of those for 2 reasons, 1. 2am is still the middle of the night - nights are for sleeping, days are for working. 2. a 2am start makes that day a night shift, restricting me to 10 hours work (we don’t have a work place agreement to bypass that 
)
Wheel Nut:
Which would be perfectly acceptable because of this!‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving
time between the end of one daily rest period and the
beginning of the following daily rest period or between a
daily rest period and a weekly rest period;
I’m well aware its legal Malc, i wouldn’t do it other wise. I am demonstrating that a daily work period, daily driving period, days work,shift or 24 hour period is not always neccesarily a real full 24 hour period. And conversley it is possible to work two 24 hour periods,shifts,daily driving periods,days work and from beggining to end the time the real time time lapse can be(for example) 54 hours. If anyone can get their head around that fact they may realise therefore that six 24 hour periods do not neccesarily constitue 144 hours.
I think when i said previously that in the UK its no big deal as VOSA will allow it, the fact is if some one has a bump and god forbid there’s a casualty then they’ll find out the hard way that there’s no 144 hour limit and you can squeeze as many shifts as you like in. Like everything, read the disclaimer at the bottom of the advice offered.
Simon:
Mike-C:
This would not be an unusual shift for me. And i make it that my first day,daily driving period or 24 hour period (Monday)was only 20 hours in length. I’ve started my second day,shift,24 hour period,driving period or whatever you want to call it at 2am. I know for sure i have started my second days work
I also know i have driven for 12.5 hours in a space of 24 hours.
You don’t find shift examples like that in the VOSA/DfT handbook !!Stuff starting at 2am, thats still the middle of the night
I’d take an 11 off and start at 4, or have another 45 break, do another hours drive and then have 9 off plus 15 minutes and start at 4.I’d do either of those for 2 reasons, 1. 2am is still the middle of the night - nights are for sleeping, days are for working. 2. a 2am start makes that day a night shift, restricting me to 10 hours work (we don’t have a work place agreement to bypass that
Don’t complicate it anymore Si !! We’re going to be into algebra next !!! 
Awwww, spoilsport.
So what you’re really saying is
From 6am (when your 1st shift starts) to 2am (when your 2nd shift starts) is counted, in the legislation, as 24 hours. Because you have done some work (a full days driving plus a bit of OW) and taken a daily rest period.
When your 2nd shift starts is the start of another 24 hours.
If you should work your complete week with shifts that start earlier and earlier (a totally ridiculous scenario, it can’t be possible to start before 2am, surely ?). After 6 shifts you’ll have to take a weekend break, even though the total number of hours will be far less than 144 
Because each work shift plus daily rest, is counted as 24 hours in the legislation.
Mike-C:
I like this as it clearly shows the two seperate regulations in article 8.
6am to 2am is this one as it fits WITHIN 24 hours - before the next 6am
- Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period.
6am to 6am is a 24-hour period - maximum of six (consecutively) between weekly rests
- A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.
If this was the first shift of the week then these 6 X 24 periods end at 6am Sunday.
Hmm, I’ve been pondering this long and hard…
I noticed this troublesome avatar:
… and I’ve come up with a suggestion:
I think my taxi is here already… 
as this post as not moved for a while and we need a few more pages i would like to know if this is legal
you are a driver that works part time and work 5 days per week for a company working under EU regs and do 3 hours each morning
on Weds and Thurs you work for some one else for 2 hours in the evening
in between the two jobs you have a daily rest
you have in fact used 7 tachographs in 5 days as
you would have to use a separate chart for each company would you not
so is it legal
you have used more cards than days worked
delboytwo:
so is it legal
YES