7.5t Truck Trip to Europe help

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS EURO DRIVING FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Have never driven trucks through Europe, only vans and small cars. Now a friend needs help moving to EE with a 7.5t truck. Here is the plan; been reading lots of posts here but your help with advice will be greatly appreciated:

  • Hire a truck for 3 days:
  • is that enough time to get to Romania and back (2100km one way) on 1 driver?
  • is it true as some forums suggest that DAF LF45 are most economical on fuel?
  • is £115/day a good rate to hire plus £150 green card and EU breakdown cover?
  • Ferry crossing:
  • used Direct Ferries – Sorry this page no longer exists and got 2 quotes for an open/unloaded return Dover to Calais £283 (Norfolk) and £381 (P&O); is this the best/cheapest option to cross into France or Belgium?
  • Crossing a Schengen border:
  • never crossed borders by truck before; will I need to join the lorries queuing?
  • Crossing France, Belgium, Germany, Austria (or Czech/Slovakia) Hungary:
  • driving without tachograph on; will I need some sort of document to show police?
  • I know Austria, Czech, Slovakia and Hungary have vignettes for 7.5t; do Germany, Belgium and France have them too for crossing on their motorways?

Any help and suggestions would be really helpful, so thanks in advance.

Chris.

2

Chris_Truck:
Have never driven trucks through Europe, only vans and small cars. Now a friend needs help moving to EE with a 7.5t truck. Here is the plan; been reading lots of posts here but your help with advice will be greatly appreciated:

  • Hire a truck for 3 days:
  • is that enough time to get to Romania and back (2100km one way) on 1 driver?

going via Germany, Austria & Hungary, In a truck that will most probably be limited to 90kph, as i think all the new 7.5t are, would take you 23hrs averaging 90kms per hour, so will be more like 36+ hrs including ferry or train then you also will have plenty of fuel stops due to the standard small tank that they fit , so can you do it inside 3 days, IMO no

Chris_Truck:

  • is it true as some forums suggest that DAF LF45 are most economical on fuel?

No idea on what you will average to the gallon, possibly 15-17 maybe unless you encounter strong winds ect but a box should give better fuel consuption than a curtain

Chris_Truck:

  • is £115/day a good rate to hire plus £150 green card and EU breakdown cover
  • Ferry crossing:
  • used Direct Ferries – Sorry this page no longer exists and got 2 quotes for an open/unloaded return Dover to Calais £283 (Norfolk) and £381 (P&O); is this the best/cheapest option to cross into France or Belgium?
  • Crossing a Schengen border:
  • never crossed borders by truck before; will I need to join the lorries queuing?
  • Crossing France, Belgium, Germany, Austria (or Czech/Slovakia) Hungary:
  • driving without tachograph on; will I need some sort of document to show police?
  • I know Austria, Czech, Slovakia and Hungary have vignettes for 7.5t; do Germany, Belgium and France have them too for crossing on their motorways?

Any help and suggestions would be really helpful, so thanks in advance.

Chris

Not familiar with ferry prices for freight or what is a good rate for the truck hire, but it sounds a very expensive way of moving someones gear, would a removals company not work out cheaper ? As for road tolls for 7.5t french autoroutes is a yes, belguim and germany is a no , as it’s anything over 12t iirc austria will be a definate yes, you will have to pay at the german /austrian border , as for the czech rep ect not sure ,

Also i wouldn’t be driving across all those countries with the tacho disabled ect, I would observe the drivers hrs rules,could be a lot less costly As for taking some kind of official documentation to show exeption from the drivers hrs rules, does this even exist, although in the uk you get stopped by plod with no chart in a hire truck, and you can show them the hire agreement, and some sort of proof that it’s being used for your personal use, and not for hire or reward , you would probably be ok , but if that would pan out ok over in germany ect, i think you would be hearing the words you must pay, at the very least if stopped

3

3 days return is not enough time. There are no vignettes to pay in France,Belgium, Holland, Germany. You’ll need a GO box at the Austrian border(Along with the vehicle docs/ Hire agreement allowing you to use the vehicle abroad. Insurance etc. You’ll have to pay electronic vignette in Hungary. Vigmette at the Romanian border. Take lots CMR’s with you stating EVERYTHING that you’re carrying. Don’t break tach rules! Anything else someone els will tell you.

4

tommy t:
going via Germany, Austria & Hungary, In a truck that will most probably be limited to 90kph, as i think all the new 7.5t are, would take you 23hrs averaging 90kms per hour, so will be more like 36+ hrs including ferry or train then you also will have plenty of fuel stops due to the standard small tank that they fit , so can you do it inside 3 days, IMO no

Thanks, so probably looking at a four-day trip, although I hope the unloaded return will mean less stops for fuel :slight_smile:

tommy t:
No idea on what you will average to the gallon, possibly 15-17 maybe unless you encounter strong winds ect but a box should give better fuel consuption than a curtain

This is good advice, I wasn’t sure whether rigid is heavier and therefore less economical than the curtain, but I guess rigid also means less wind resistance, right?

tommy t:
Not familiar with ferry prices for freight or what is a good rate for the truck hire, but it sounds a very expensive way of moving someones gear, would a removals company not work out cheaper ?

We looked at all options, including smaller 3.5t with trailer, containers, removals. Removals quotes are ridiculous (£5k), containers come to about £1.6k-£2k but take a while and not recommended to send brittle stuff unless pay expensive insurance, smaller van and trailer is defo cheaper but limited space and weight.

tommy t:
As for road tolls for 7.5t french autoroutes is a yes, belguim and germany is a no , as it’s anything over 12t iirc austria will be a definate yes, you will have to pay at the german /austrian border , as for the czech rep ect not sure ,

thanks, didn’t know French have tolls for 7.5t. Austrian toll for 7.5t is 75 Euros/day one-way, so 150 return. Czech and Slovakia would be the slightly cheaper way of avoiding Austria, but the toll saving goes on extra fuel (100km longer route)

tommy t:
Also i wouldn’t be driving across all those countries with the tacho disabled ect, I would observe the drivers hrs rules,could be a lot less costly As for taking some kind of official documentation to show exeption from the drivers hrs rules, does this even exist, although in the uk you get stopped by plod with no chart in a hire truck, and you can show them the hire agreement, and some sort of proof that it’s being used for your personal use, and not for hire or reward , you would probably be ok , but if that would pan out ok over in germany ect, i think you would be hearing the words you must pay, at the very least if stopped

Not sure why I should observe hrs rule, when they don’t apply to private transport■■? Yes, German or Austrian plod may ignore and fine us, but that’d be illegal on their side and there are ways to get that refunded. Will probably ask friend to send us a printout of German legislation, to educate the plod.

5

Hi Chris,
I have done this trip several times and my advice is to have marginal contact with France. it will save you a bit of cash in tolls.
The route I would take is Calais to Dunkirk - Dunkirk to Lille (No toll on this route) - Lille to Mons (No toll on this route) - Mons to Liege - Liege to Koln(Cologne)-Pick up A3 which will take you down through Germany (Frankfurt/Nurnberg) to the Austrian border where you pick up Toll Box or Vignette at the Shell station.
Take A1 towards Wien(Vienna) follow until you see signs for A21 - Turn onto A21 follow through until you reach Schwechet and follow signs for the airport A4 -Stay on A4 to Hungarian Border where you pick up Toll Box/Vignette for Hungary and pick up M1 towards Budapest- Pick up ring road M0/M31 to pick up M3 - Follow M3 which will take you through to the Romanian border (North) or turn off onto M35 for Debrecan/Bucharest.

I know this is a less direct route through France but it does save money on French tolls particularly.
I would also start at night as it will give you a faster start down through Germany. There sometimes bottlenecks around Wurzburg where they are rebuilding the Autobahn.
The other route across Germany the A8 is being rebuilt between Stuttgart and Augsburg which is what you would use if you go through France and has some serious delays on it.

6

As said, Dover to Dunkirk, the cheapest is prob Norfolk Line.
You will need all of the 3 days just to get to Romania, but depends on where your final destination is.
You are probably looking at a week return, what with the unloading, plus your running on tacho regs and a 24hr rest if you exceed 6 days.
Hiring a vehicle is not cheap, especially if going to europe.
Germany loves English registered trucks, the same as the East European ones, so keep everything legal, Tacho, Hours, stops, Rests etc, or face big fines.
You will need an itinary, a load list of all of the goods inside, and possibly a letter from your mate authorising you to haul his goods/posessions.
Hope you have a HGV licence, and an O licence, although possibly not needed as it is own account, and probably not collecting a return load.

7

Chris_Truck:
We looked at all options, including smaller 3.5t with trailer, containers, removals. Removals quotes are ridiculous (£5k), containers come to about £1.6k-£2k but take a while and not recommended to send brittle stuff unless pay expensive insurance, smaller van and trailer is defo cheaper but limited space and weight.

I know some of people here may don’t like this - What about Romanian firm? plenty of them come over to UK so they will able offer competitive rate for their return loads. I am sure they offer cheap work out than your - hire, ferry, hassle with tacho etc but I know it is good fun adventure journey to Romania if your no worry about budget

8

There’s a reason the removals charges are high. You’ll have rolls in Germany what ever you haul it goes off the reg plate personally it’ll be easier using a removals company from uk or ro or pl lots come over here. The only way the 7.5 will save any fuel is if its got an air kit. Oh make sure it has a sleeper you’ll need it. Remember the removals company has 2 or 3 wages to pay as well as insuring everything will be wrapped and protected properly. Which it won’t be on your 7.5 tonner By the sounds of it you’ll be flying blind. 115 per day plus vat sounds good for 6 days hire which is what the trip will be also youve got to feed yourself etc now youve just to work out your fuel cost

9

alix776:
There’s a reason the removals charges are high. You’ll have rolls in Germany what ever you haul it goes off the reg plate personally it’ll be easier using a removals company from uk or ro or pl lots come over here. The only way the 7.5 will save any fuel is if its got an air kit. Oh make sure it has a sleeper you’ll need it. Remember the removals company has 2 or 3 wages to pay as well as insuring everything will be wrapped and protected properly. Which it won’t be on your 7.5 tonner By the sounds of it you’ll be flying blind. 115 per day plus vat sounds good for 6 days hire which is what the trip will be also youve got to feed yourself etc now youve just to work out your fuel cost

Thanks alix776, I hear you about the removal company being the easier option. An air kit? Hmm, tempting…maybe also add a sail to it while at it. No, I’d not want to turn this trip into a week-long adventure using the sleeper; if I can’t drive there in 36 hours and back the same, I won’t do it. also I need to look up German legislation, as I’m sure the rules applying to business transport cannot be the same for private individuals moving their friends’ possessions.

10

Betz:

Chris_Truck:
I know some of people here may don’t like this - What about Romanian firm? plenty of them come over to UK so they will able offer competitive rate for their return loads. I am sure they offer cheap work out than your - hire, ferry, hassle with tacho etc but I know it is good fun adventure journey to Romania if your no worry about budget

I did consider Romanian firms but the problem is 1. they do not run on schedule, and this move requires strict time arrangements; 2. friend says they’re not reliable (they offer no warranty if something breaks of gets missing) 3. they often use lorries which cannot enter narrow central street my friend lives on. I know, you think using them is hassle-free, but it isn’t… although I am sure in most cases they are reliable and cheaper as an option

11

Puddlejumper:
Hi Chris,
I have done this trip several times and my advice is to have marginal contact with France. it will save you a bit of cash in tolls.
The route I would take is Calais to Dunkirk - Dunkirk to Lille (No toll on this route) - Lille to Mons (No toll on this route) - Mons to Liege - Liege to Koln(Cologne)-Pick up A3 which will take you down through Germany (Frankfurt/Nurnberg) to the Austrian border where you pick up Toll Box or Vignette at the Shell station.
Take A1 towards Wien(Vienna) follow until you see signs for A21 - Turn onto A21 follow through until you reach Schwechet and follow signs for the airport A4 -Stay on A4 to Hungarian Border where you pick up Toll Box/Vignette for Hungary and pick up M1 towards Budapest- Pick up ring road M0/M31 to pick up M3 - Follow M3 which will take you through to the Romanian border (North) or turn off onto M35 for Debrecan/Bucharest. I know this is a less direct route through France but it does save money on French tolls particularly. I would also start at night as it will give you a faster start down through Germany. There sometimes bottlenecks around Wurzburg where they are rebuilding the Autobahn. The other route across Germany the A8 is being rebuilt between Stuttgart and Augsburg which is what you would use if you go through France and has some serious delays on it.

Thanks Puddlejumper, these are some really useful tips, mate. I will have a look at the map to plot this in advance.
[/quote]

12

truckyboy:
As said, Dover to Dunkirk, the cheapest is prob Norfolk Line.
You will need all of the 3 days just to get to Romania, but depends on where your final destination is.
You are probably looking at a week return, what with the unloading, plus your running on tacho regs and a 24hr rest if you exceed 6 days.
Hiring a vehicle is not cheap, especially if going to europe.
Germany loves English registered trucks, the same as the East European ones, so keep everything legal, Tacho, Hours, stops, Rests etc, or face big fines.
You will need an itinary, a load list of all of the goods inside, and possibly a letter from your mate authorising you to haul his goods/posessions.
Hope you have a HGV licence, and an O licence, although possibly not needed as it is own account, and probably not collecting a return load.

Hi mate, I don’t see why I’d need 3 days to get to Romania■■? As previous member said, it’s a 36 hours trip, and as private I am not required legally to run on tacho. Itinerary by whom and for what? The owner of the personal possessions is in the cabin with me, he can give them a grand tour of his furniture and baby toys. List of all the goods? Do we include how many jumpers and sock pairs? There is plenty of help with loading and unloading, made easier if truck will come with tail-lift, and yes I do have a cat C+E licence, thank God.

13

As said do it with in drivers hrs regs. Are you or your friend hiring the truck if its him it could be seen as hire and reward.

It doesn’t matter wether or not you think its not hire and reward its what the police there think the fines are very large and immediate. As in pay now or well take to an atm go box in chech is 100€ deposit then you have to load it

14

I used to go F,B,D,CHEK,SLOVAK ,H,ROMANIA. I am an experienced driver and think your 3 day round trip is a little optimistic,since you ain’t done it before in a truck and you’re short of cash. But anyway,good luck with your plan.

Sounds a bit like plan MH370 to me. :slight_smile:

15

alix776:
As said do it with in drivers hrs regs. Are you or your friend hiring the truck if its him it could be seen as hire and reward.

It doesn’t matter wether or not you think its not hire and reward its what the police there think the fines are very large and immediate. As in pay now or well take to an atm go box in chech is 100€ deposit then you have to load it

it does matter. The truck is hired by me. You’re right they can see anything they want but… my friend’s friend actually contacted the transport ministry in Romania, asking if he could move from Germany to Romania using a hired 7.5t truck and I am attaching their official response which quotes European Commission (EC) directives, so they’re applicable all across EU. Here is what it says: "Regarding your query about an international transport from Germany to Romania for the purpose of relocation, we inform you the following: art.11 concerning road transports, the provisions regarding access to transport operation activity does NOT apply to national road transports for self-interest purposes carried out by individuals with vehicles of any capacity belonging to them. … art. 1(5) of EC Law no. 1079/2009 regarding common rules for access to the international road transport of goods sets that goods transported by a company for the purpose of relocation, using own vehicles or hired ones, driven by company’s hired personnel, where the transport does NOT constitute other than an auxiliary activity to that undertaken by the company, are exempt from any transport authorisation. Art. 3 (h) of EC Law nr. 561/2006 regarding the conformity of certain provisions of social legislation pertaining road transports, sets that these do NOT apply to transports carried out with a vehicle or combination of vehicles with an authorized mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes for the transport of goods for non-commercial purposes. Given the above, it results that you can use a truck with a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, individually owned or hired, to relocate your personal effects from Germany to Romania without a transport licence or using the tachometer, provided that this is not a permanent activity which you intend to carry out on the Germany-Romania route. We indicate that in case the vehicle is hired by you for this activity, it’s essential that you have the hire contract in original or a legalised copy of it for the entire duration of these road transport operations. " I think this letter is self-explanatory. There is no need of tacho or itinerary or goods list. I could either translate this to German or better, get my German friend to ask the German transport ministry for a similar letter - EC laws are the same in Germany!

Legislation - Copy.jpg
Legislation - Copy.jpg429×616 94.7 KB

16

harry:
I used to go F,B,D,CHEK,SLOVAK ,H,ROMANIA. I am an experienced driver and think your 3 day round trip is a little optimistic,since you ain’t done it before in a truck and you’re short of cash. But anyway,good luck with your plan.

Well Harry boy, you assume too much. :smiley: I am not short of cash, just helping a family relocate at my own costs. I admit I’m new at this international transports, but in a previous life I’ve done my share of trucking :laughing:

harry:
Sounds a bit like plan MH370 to me. :slight_smile:

Why’s that, because I’m disconnecting the tacho■■? Oh I see… the pilots were trying to get to China too fast and using half the petrol. That explains why they ended up in Australia right■■?

17

As maybe you are being rewarded for the trip as your friend will be paying you for the hire of the truck and the round trip fuel and tolls. Its there for hire and reward you’ll need olicense and stick to tacho rules as the goods being carried are not yours

18

That’s also the wrong regs as they refer to an employee using a companies own or a hired vehicle.

19

alix776:
As maybe you are being rewarded for the trip as your friend will be paying you for the hire of the truck and the round trip fuel and tolls. Its there for hire and reward you’ll need olicense and stick to tacho rules as the goods being carried are not yours

I just quoted you legislation which states even if truck was hired with driver, i.e. me, that still wouldn’t need authorisation and tacho use : :confused:

20

alix776:
That’s also the wrong regs as they refer to an employee using a companies own or a hired vehicle.

Maybe it refers to hire companies who provide trucks with their own drivers.