i’ve recently been told that after 6 hours a 45 break has to be taken whether any diving or other work has been done or not. Does anyone know the actual regulation because i can’t find it?
WTD or in our case RTD
The reason you can’t find anything about it is because you’ve been told wrong.
Under the WTD no one can work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
A break must be no less than 15 minutes.
If you are working between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then a total of 30 minutes break must be taken ( before you reach 9 hours)
If working more than 9 hours the a 45 minute break must be totalled.
In reality your tacho break for EU hours regs usually mean that a 45 minute break is taken well before you reach 9 hours working.
Please note that working time does not include breaks or POA
so if i’ve got it right in the rare event that i work 6 hours without reaching 4 1/2 driving i just need to take a 15 minute break.
Is it just me or is it confusing
Mr B:
so if i’ve got it right in the rare event that i work 6 hours without reaching 4 1/2 driving i just need to take a 15 minute break.
Is it just me or is it confusing
That’s correct, this 15 minute break can count as the first part of the 45 minute driving break, so you would only need to have another break of 30 minutes after completing 4.5 hours driving.
thanks that actually makes sense.
So i’ve probably got it wrong somewhere lol
Limestone Cowboy:
If you are working between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then a total of 30 minutes break must be taken ( before you reach 9 hours)They way I’ve always interpreted and told/encouraged to do is to take a 30 mins break as per “Limestone Cowboy” comments after 6 hours rather than 15 mins, because you are likely to be working over 6 hours anyway.
You can learn more about the WTD here.
WTD breaks and tachograph breaks can be regarded as both, so a break that’s taken to comply with the WTD regulations will count as a break that’s required for tachograph regulations as long as it complies with those regulations.
howatsi:
Limestone Cowboy:
If you are working between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then a total of 30 minutes break must be taken ( before you reach 9 hours)They way I’ve always interpreted and told/encouraged to do is to take a 30 mins break as per “Limestone Cowboy” comments after 6 hours rather than 15 mins, because you are likely to be working over 6 hours anyway.
There’s nothing wrong with doing it that way, but if you’ve done any driving before taking the break, only the first 15 minutes of that break would count towards a split 45 minute tachograph break, so in some circumstances you could find yourself having more break than you really wanted.
There seems alot of cofusion in the answers you have been given a 6 hour WTD break is exactly what it says, a break BEFORE you have completed 6 hours work, if you have worked for 9 hours, you should have had a 30 min break before 6 hours work is done i.e 5 h 59 min this then clears you for another 6 hours BUT this time you must have a 15 min break in the first 3 hours i.e 6 - 9 hours and again another 15 minute break in the 9 - 12 hour period. It is correct that a WTD break will contribute to a driver’s hours break but remember if you split your break it needs to be shortest break first longest break second i.e 15 min followed by 30 min if using digital add a few minutes to each break
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sabredog:
There seems alot of cofusion in the answers you have been given a 6 hour WTD break is exactly what it says, a break BEFORE you have completed 6 hours work, if you have worked for 9 hours, you should have had a 30 min break before 6 hours work is done
15 minutes is all that is required at the 6 hour point, Note the regulations say No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break so you can take the break at 6 hours if you wish, it doesn’t have to be 5:59, 6 hours isn’t more than 6 hours. 
There is nothing in the regulations which says 30 minutes must be taken before exceeding 6 hours. How long your next break(s) are, and when they must be taken, depends on theamount of hours of work you do…
sabredog:
i.e 5 h 59 min this then clears you for another 6 hours BUT this time you must have a 15 min break in the first 3 hours i.e 6 - 9 hours
Only if your work time will not exceed 9 hours, and you took 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours work, would you need another break in the 6 - 9 hour period. If your work time will be up to 12 hours you wouldn’t necessarily need the other break(s) until you either work 6 hours since your last break or before you clock off, whichever comes first. If your work time will be longer than 12 hours you may not need the other break(s) until after 12 hours into your shift, depending when other break(s) were taken and any periods of POA. There is nothing in the regulations which says you have to have completed 30 minutes before 9 hours if you are working beyond that point.
sabredog:
and again another 15 minute break in the 9 - 12 hour
Again it depends how long your work time will be, and how much POA you have had, as to when and for how long your next break(s) will be. If you work more than 9 hours there is nothing in the regulations which states the 45 minute of break(s) required for work time of over 9 hours must be taken before exceeding 12 hours work. I think you need another read of the WTD regulations as you are very confused by them at the moment.
its all cobblers
working on your average day
do quarter of day have teabreak 15 - 20 (other beverages are available)
at the half day point take main break 30 - 45
3 quarter point another break 15 - 20
if it co incides with the law great 
if it dont it will give TM something to moan about 
my head hurts!
I start work and take my 45 break after 4 1/2 hours driving as normal, on rare occasions if i get to 6 hours of work before 4 1/2 driving i take a 30 lunch and another 15 when my 4 1/2 driving is up. I don’t count any poa’s when calculating any break. If i was that clever i’d have a better paid job!
I think this satisfies both regulations
Limestone Cowboy:
The reason you can’t find anything about it is because you’ve been told wrong.If you are working between 6 and 9 hours in a day, then a total of 30 minutes break must be taken ( before you reach 9 hours)
I just take 30 minutes at (or before) 6 hours. After all if I take 15 and don’t work more than 9 hours then I must, to stay legal, have a 15 minute break before leaving the yard. Not going to happen once I’m in the gate I want to get home as soon as possible.
Mr B:
my head hurts!
I start work and take my 45 break after 4 1/2 hours driving as normal, on rare occasions if i get to 6 hours of work before 4 1/2 driving i take a 30 lunch and another 15 when my 4 1/2 driving is up. I don’t count any poa’s when calculating any break. If i was that clever i’d have a better paid job!
I think this satisfies both regulations
Sorry m8 but if you have a 30 minute break and then a 15 minute break when completing 4.5 hours driving, you’ve got it the wrong way round, for the tacho regulations if you split the break then the first part must be no less than 15 minutes and the second part no less than 30 minutes.
As has already been said if you reach 6 hours and haven’t needed to have a break you should have no less than 15 minutes and this will count for the WTD 6 hour rule and the first part of the 45 minute tacho break.
If the first break you have is a 30 minute break for the 6 hour rule, only 15 minutes of it will count towards a split 45 minute tacho break, so you will need to have another 30 minute break before doing more than 4.5 hours driving.
So the easy solution is to have 2 30 min breaks and you’ve covered all angles? Well thats what i’ve been doing.
I am going to piggyback another question on this thread.
So after working out the difference between UTC, local time and UK time I was heading to France.
Now I believed that the WTD night work rule kicked in if you worked between 00.01 and 04.00. Now the confusion in the wording has upset my boss.
If a driver starts work between these times he/she becomes a night worker and is limited to 10 hours work on that day.
However i started work at Lunchtime and my shift ended at 01.30 UK time, Does this make me a night worker or not? either for this day or the following day after a 9 hour break.
I have read the DfT website and need the clarification of greater minds
Unless there is an agreement, night workers are restricted to 10 hours working time for any 24-hour period. Any work performed in the night-time period triggers the 10-hour limit.
It is the above quote from the DfT that makes me think that it does affect me.
When the shift started or finished makes no difference, if you do work any time between 00:00 to 04:00 ( for goods vehicles) you’re classed as a night worker.
So if you finish work at 01:30, you’ve done work during the night time period (00:00 to 04:00), so yes you would be classed as a night worker, and unless you have an opt out agreement in place you would be restricted to 10 hours work in the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
If a mobile worker does any work during the night time period, they will be subject to the night work limit. The night work limit can only be exceeded where this is permitted in a relevant agreement - (see Section 7.1 - “relevant agreements”).
tachograph:
When the shift started or finished makes no difference, if you do work any time between 00:00 to 04:00 ( for goods vehicles) you’re classed as a night worker.So if you finish work at 01:30, you’ve done work during the night time period (00:00 to 04:00), so yes you would be classed as a night worker, and unless you have an opt out agreement in place you would be restricted to 10 hours work in the 24 hour period from the start of the shift.
If a mobile worker does any work during the night time period, they will be subject to the night work limit. The night work limit can only be exceeded where this is permitted in a relevant agreement - (see Section 7.1 - “relevant agreements”).
Thanks, that was my take on it too, but our font of all knowledge in the traffic office said I was wrong. Im looking forward to next week
It turns out he had got his incorrect advice from another driver. MMTHB
(My Mate Told His Boss) 
Does any of this actually matter? has anyone ever been prosecuted for breaching WTD regs?