4 on 4 off tramping job

switchlogic:

OVLOV JAY:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
As for anyone looking for something even more life friendly,like a Mon-Tue-Wed and Thu-Fri and possibly alternate Sat morning rota forget it.As opposed to 8 am - 6 pm Mon-Fri and alternate Sat mornings which was one recent example which I offered job share or zb off,in addition to another example calling for 8 am - 5 pm Mon to Fri + compulsory overtime.

Why is that more ‘life friendly’ though? What’s so special about weekends? Why no Saturday mornings? What do you want to do on Saturday that you can’t any other day in the week? I love 4 on 4 off myself and having regular days off in the week is much more useful than weekends I find personally

Weekends are no good for me as my kids are only off school on a Saturday and Sunday. But I can see why it’s easier having days off in the week in your elder years (not that it applies to you) as it’s easier for doctors appointments etc

I should have made clear that was a very Carryfast specific question knowing his circumstances, I.e similar to mine, single with no kids. I fully understand why to some weekends at home are important

Ah I’m with you now

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
As for anyone looking for something even more life friendly,like a Mon-Tue-Wed and Thu-Fri and possibly alternate Sat morning rota forget it.As opposed to 8 am - 6 pm Mon-Fri and alternate Sat mornings which was one recent example which I offered job share or zb off,in addition to another example calling for 8 am - 5 pm Mon to Fri + compulsory overtime.

Why is that more ‘life friendly’ though? What’s so special about weekends? Why no Saturday mornings? What do you want to do on Saturday that you can’t any other day in the week? I love 4 on 4 off myself and having regular days off in the week is much more useful than weekends I find personally

Assuming anyone likes to use their time off to attend sports events etc most are held on weekends.

While I was actually referring to life friendly in the sense that time off in a big block is better than a few odd days.I was also referring to the specific situation of an employer that doesn’t need Sunday if not any weekend working.Which means that realistically I was talking about the best way to split up a Monday-Saturday if not Monday - Friday working week on a job share basis.IE Monday-Wed one week and Thursday- Friday if not Thursday - Saturday the next on a rota.So very similar to the principle of 4 on 4 off,except even better at least for anyone that doesn’t need a big wage income.

But as I said employers generally hate job share arrangements of all types for the reasons I’ve given.Preferring instead to maximise their utilisation of employees in terms of hours and duties to minimise their manning levels.Because of the fixed costs like the NI employers’ stamp contributions for every employee on the books.While where they do compromise on that you can bet that it’s only because it’s in their interests to do so with no other option.

Carryfast:
But as I said employers generally hate job share arrangements of all types for the reasons I’ve given.

Long retired poster decides to dip his toe into the job market five minutes ago for the first time in over 20 years and suddenly he knows it all and exactly what every employer wants :smiley: You’re nothing if not predictable old fruit. Good luck in your job search, something tells me you’ll need it

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
But as I said employers generally hate job share arrangements of all types for the reasons I’ve given.

Long retired poster decides to dip his toe into the job market five minutes ago for the first time in over 20 years and suddenly he knows it all and exactly what every employer wants :smiley: You’re nothing if not predictable old fruit. Good luck in your job search, something tells me you’ll need it

It’s actually me who’s being pessimistic about what the employers want ( anything but a decent job share package ) and if I’m wrong about that then I’ll actually be in a much better position not a worse one. :unamused: So remind us how much job searching are you doing to know exactly what the job market wants in terms of required hours/days and duties.

While no I didn’t actually ‘decide’ to dip my toe back in the job maket.It actually had more to do with low interest rates having decimated my income protection policy payout and losing my Mum also meant that her private and state pension income went with her and which in large part had previously covered the household expenses. :imp: :frowning:

Carryfast:
So remind us how much job searching are you doing to know exactly what the job market wants in terms of required hours/days and duties.

  1. I’ve not claimed to know ‘exactly’ what the job market wants and 2. In the 20 years since you’ve been retired I’ve had 26 jobs, 4 in the last 18 months, my current one being a mix of 4 on 4 off and 5 on 3 off and I know jobs like this aren’t hard to come by, so there’s that. :wink:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
So remind us how much job searching are you doing to know exactly what the job market wants in terms of required hours/days and duties.

  1. I’ve not claimed to know ‘exactly’ what the job market wants and 2. In the 20 years since you’ve been retired I’ve had 26 jobs, 4 in the last 18 months, so there’s that.

Let me guess you just had to ask the guvnors in all 26 jobs for a job sharing arrangement varying from Mon-Wed or Thu-Sat or 4 on 4 off and they all said yes no problem.Bonus points if you also had the option of saying only car or van driving work and duties which didn’t involve 6 days workload done in 3 and/or an additional job role or two,including taking on personal and financial responsibility of being a qualified car sales or vehicle assessor/negotiator executive for around minimum wage.

Carryfast:
But as I said employers generally hate job share arrangements of all types for the reasons I’ve given.Preferring instead to maximise their utilisation of employees in terms of hours and duties to minimise their manning levels.Because of the fixed costs like the NI employers’ stamp contributions for every employee on the books.

I’m sure it’s the second time you’ve said this and I don’t know which decade you are thinking about with employers’ stamp.

The Employers’ NI is a percentage of the pay, therefore in principle they pay the same regardless of whether the total pay is paid to one or two employees.

There are a matrix of allowances and exceptions but none that I can think of which affect the general picture.

The main reason employers don’t like job shares (in routine occupations with minimum wages) is because they aren’t paying enough wages to allow workers to share jobs, and to attract sharers they are either going to have to increase hourly rates or else they are only going to attract those who are doing it as second earners or for pocket money (and with the reduced commitment or flexibility that accompanies it).

Ultimately bosses always prefer to hire a smaller number of the very desperate working long hours for a minimum overall wage, because if nothing else the rate of exploitation is thus higher (i.e. you’re paying the man the bare minimum needed to keep body and soul together and in a workable condition, but you’re getting 70 hours work out of him rather than 35).

The only time employers accept “part-timers” (which I accept in the case of haulage means “full-time” in almost any other sector) is when they cannot get workers on any other terms, or when their need for a particular type of worker is intrinsically less than full-time (e.g. in a school kitchen, it makes more sense to have several part-time local women who work 10-2 while their own kids are looked after in the school).

Curious to know how much “tramping” would you do, if for example, going from Bucks to Glasgow Area with say 3 drops and a reload and be back for your 4 off

lolipop:
Curious to know how much “tramping” would you do, if for example, going from Bucks to Glasgow Area with say 3 drops and a reload and be back for your 4 off

3days 3 nights
We do a regular Thursday tip at B&Q Clydes mill RDC with a couple of other drops from Southampton
Easy to do drops up on Wednesday on way up , do Glasgow and reload and be back down south by midday Friday

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

blue estate:

lolipop:
Curious to know how much “tramping” would you do, if for example, going from Bucks to Glasgow Area with say 3 drops and a reload and be back for your 4 off

3days 3 nights
We do a regular Thursday tip at B&Q Clydes mill RDC with a couple of other drops from Southampton
Easy to do drops up on Wednesday on way up , do Glasgow and reload and be back down south by midday Friday

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thats not “tramping” thats only a run that entails three nights out.
Look at my previous posting about the definition of “tramping” and look at some of the replies

lolipop:

blue estate:

lolipop:
Curious to know how much “tramping” would you do, if for example, going from Bucks to Glasgow Area with say 3 drops and a reload and be back for your 4 off

3days 3 nights
We do a regular Thursday tip at B&Q Clydes mill RDC with a couple of other drops from Southampton
Easy to do drops up on Wednesday on way up , do Glasgow and reload and be back down south by midday Friday

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thats not “tramping” thats only a run that entails three nights out.
Look at my previous posting about the definition of “tramping” and look at some of the replies

I go away on my first day, knowing my first delivery. After that, it’s here, there and everywhere for four days, three nights out.
I guess that doesnt qualify as tramping, because im not away for six weeks?

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
So remind us how much job searching are you doing to know exactly what the job market wants in terms of required hours/days and duties.

  1. I’ve not claimed to know ‘exactly’ what the job market wants and 2. In the 20 years since you’ve been retired I’ve had 26 jobs, 4 in the last 18 months, so there’s that.

Let me guess you just had to ask the guvnors in all 26 jobs for a job sharing arrangement varying from Mon-Wed or Thu-Sat or 4 on 4 off and they all said yes no problem.Bonus points if you also had the option of saying only car or van driving work and duties which didn’t involve 6 days workload done in 3 and/or an additional job role or two,including taking on personal and financial responsibility of being a qualified car sales or vehicle assessor/negotiator executive for around minimum wage.

So because I haven’t had the very exact same experience as you (thank God really) I can’t voice my view on the subject? From everything I’ve read there’s a reason you’re struggling so much to get work and probably why you had to retire early…you sound like a flipping nightmare employee. You want your perfect job to fall into your lap straightaway, like you did continental work. See a pattern? B&Q take on retirees, I think that’s about as much as you can manage, stacking shelves. Even then you’d probably rearrange the whole store because you think you know best because you said hello to a customer once 15 years ago :smiley:

Never leave Trucknet, it’d be boring without your hilarious posts :wink:

Rjan:

Carryfast:
But as I said employers generally hate job share arrangements

I’m sure it’s the second time you’ve said this and I don’t know which decade you are thinking about with employers’ stamp.

The Employers’ NI is a percentage of the pay, therefore in principle they pay the same regardless of whether the total pay is paid to one or two employees.

There are a matrix of allowances and exceptions but none that I can think of which affect the general picture.

The main reason employers don’t like job shares (in routine occupations with minimum wages) is because they aren’t paying enough wages to allow workers to share jobs, and to attract sharers they are either going to have to increase hourly rates or else they are only going to attract those who are doing it as second earners or for pocket money (and with the reduced commitment or flexibility that accompanies it).

Ultimately bosses always prefer to hire a smaller number of the very desperate working long hours for a minimum overall wage, because if nothing else the rate of exploitation is thus higher (i.e. you’re paying the man the bare minimum needed to keep body and soul together and in a workable condition, but you’re getting 70 hours work out of him rather than 35).

Fair enough.So I’m right but for the wrong reasons.Making one employee work 50 + hours per week Mon -Fri or Mon-Sat or Sun - Fri,rather than two employees working a 3 day week or a 3 day - 2 day week or a 4 on 4 off rota for example,makes what are basically mentally ill psychopathic employers feel good.Other than that there is no rational reason for at least not also offering any job on that basis from the employer’s point of view.

Or the latter ■■■■■■ off jealous employees with more financial commitments who have to work all the hours and days they can get in a low paying unsuited job.IE 20 something workers choosing the easy option of driving cars for the local garage or trade plating rather than driving a truck for the local building deliveries firm etc etc.

On that note the approaching retirement worker,not needing a big wage, still has to show just as much commitment to the job because he still has bills to pay too.If that wasn’t the case why would he bother.But agreed he is obviously, possibly rightly,seen as less of a desperate mug,by such exploitative vindictive employers because his outgoings aren’t perceived as being as onerous.

While those looking for a 4 on 4 off shift pattern in whatever role obviously,rightly or wrongly,get painted with that same brush for the same reasons.IE the bosses don’t like to think that the job is being made too easy. :unamused:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
So remind us how much job searching are you doing to know exactly what the job market wants in terms of required hours/days and duties.

  1. I’ve not claimed to know ‘exactly’ what the job market wants and 2. In the 20 years since you’ve been retired I’ve had 26 jobs, 4 in the last 18 months, so there’s that.

Let me guess you just had to ask the guvnors in all 26 jobs for a job sharing arrangement varying from Mon-Wed or Thu-Sat or 4 on 4 off and they all said yes no problem.Bonus points if you also had the option of saying only car or van driving work and duties which didn’t involve 6 days workload done in 3 and/or an additional job role or two,including taking on personal and financial responsibility of being a qualified car sales or vehicle assessor/negotiator executive for around minimum wage.

So because I haven’t had the very exact same experience as you (thank God really) I can’t voice my view on the subject? From everything I’ve read there’s a reason you’re struggling so much to get work and probably why you had to retire early…you sound like a flipping nightmare employee. You want your perfect job to fall into your lap straightaway, like you did continental work. See a pattern? B&Q take on retirees, I think that’s about as much as you can manage, stacking shelves. Even then you’d probably rearrange the whole store because you think you know best because you said hello to a customer once 15 years ago :smiley:

Never leave Trucknet, it’d be boring without your hilarious posts :wink:

Stacking shelves is out because I’ve got a knackered back remember. :smiley: Having said that there does actually seem to be some easy car driving work out there.Ironically,for all that I’ve said about them in the past,at least if you’re working for an agency.Which by definition means that the client wants to minimise his use of your services in the form of hours and days worked and because of the late,if not no,notice aspect of the job ( like around an hour between getting the call and being expected to arrive for work ),obviously doesn’t want to take the ■■■■ in regard to work load or the duties expected. :smiley: :wink:

Maybe pay back for all those jobs where I was stitched up like a kipper by them when I was a young naive new truck driver predictably exploiting the ‘experience’ issue to the max.Bearing in mind that my experience of that,while others were obviously avin a larf jumping the queue into International work behind me,has usually been meant as a warning to others.To not allow themselves to be seen as a mug in believing all the start at the bottom bs,because it equally obviously ain’t going to change anything for me now. :unamused:

Update.
Well I got my job at jack Richards.
4 on 4 off. Very happy.
Nice 6 week old daf that I share with one other.
Thank you to all that gave valuable input to help me achieve this position.
Pity my thread was invaded by utter drivel that had nothing to do with what I asked.

Happy days.

Carryfast:
On that note the approaching retirement worker,not needing a big wage, still has to show just as much commitment to the job because he still has bills to pay too.If that wasn’t the case why would he bother.But agreed he is obviously, possibly rightly,seen as less of a desperate mug,by such exploitative vindictive employers because his outgoings aren’t perceived as being as onerous.

Agreed. On any reckoning, a man needing to work only part-time is more comfortable than the man needing to work full-time.

It may be that the part-time man still needs some work eventually to stay afloat, but the urgency and levels of financial commitment are obviously not so great (since if they were he could just revert to full-time), and employers will use rules of thumb rather than examining your specific financial situation.

Employers will never use part-timers (at the same or higher hourly rate as full-timers) unless they have to, which may be either because they cannot get full-timers or because their own needs are only for a part-timer - though they will of course readily hire part-timers who can be got significantly cheaper per hour than full-timers.

The latter is common with women I think, where a third-rate employer who can only afford to attract and retain men who are the dregs of their sector, may find a woman with children who has come down from much better (or who without children, would have gone much higher), and will get her part-time for the same hourly rate as men who would be dregs at that rate (and without violating any equal pay law, because the woman is paid the same pro-rata as any men in the same organisation, notwithstanding her higher competence and/or experience).

I would also imagine an employer might ask why a person is only looking for part-time work, aside from the possibility of lower outgoings. Is he decrepit and slow-paced? Is he sick or fragile? Are we playing second-fiddle to another part-time employer, whose demands may change and will come first? Are we a stopgap for a man seeking full-time work, now or soon? These things are unlikely to be asked outright, especially because any honest answer which would confirm these facts is never likely to be given by an astute candidate, but rather employers may surmise or speculate.

Bottom line, if the employer isn’t advertising for part-timers, and has no experience in working with reliable part-timers (or has the opposite experience), then those asking for it will be looked upon with deep suspicion as to why they don’t want or can’t do full-time.

A large number of quality candidates asking for part-time work despite being capable of full-time, in circumstances where the employer is also not struggling to get full-timers, would suggest an employer is paying far too high a rate - and he can afford to drop rates until the part-timers have to present themselves as full-timers to meet their living costs. If he cannot drop them anymore, for example, because of minimum wages or other strictures, then he will just refuse to hire you outright until your means have been degraded to the point you need full-time work (and are thus on an equal footing of desperation, as the man who was seeking full-time work from the outset).

While those looking for a 4 on 4 off shift pattern in whatever role obviously,rightly or wrongly,get painted with that same brush for the same reasons.IE the bosses don’t like to think that the job is being made too easy. :unamused:

Well, the tradition with 4-on-4-off was that you worked more hours per day than the standard 8, and often that it was combined with shift work. It wasn’t designed to make things easier for workers.

If particular bosses are resistant to it, it’s more likely to be because they do not require equal manpower at weekends as on weekdays, or because for whatever reason they can’t readily find enough workers in the market who will participate in it.

4 on 4 off …the shift pattern of champions [emoji846]

OVLOV JAY:
Only you two can hijack a thread about a guy looking for a specific shift pattern tramping job, and turn it into a political spat. There’s a time and a place, why don’t one of you start a thread in Bully’s, because this ain’t the time or place :unamused:

If you did but know it,two stags locking antlers like these two,considerably elevates the landscape.Gold dust.Sort of beats ,‘what sat nav should i buy’? would you not say? :unamused:

Rjan:
Well, the tradition with 4-on-4-off was that you worked more hours per day than the standard 8, and often that it was combined with shift work. It wasn’t designed to make things easier for workers.

If particular bosses are resistant to it, it’s more likely to be because they do not require equal manpower at weekends as on weekdays, or because for whatever reason they can’t readily find enough workers in the market who will participate in it.

Ironically 4 on 4 off is arguably more just a type of job share arrangement,of an otherwise full time job,as opposed to ‘part time’ v full time working per se.IE there is possibly a difference. :bulb:

Notwithstanding the OP’s situation in my experience there seems to be some silly counterproductive resistance by employers to all types of job share arrangements,4 on 4 off being one example.Or in my case ( unsuccessfully ) calling for an 8 am - 6 pm Monday to Friday + Saturday morning working week to be shared on a 3 day week rota for example.Especially in the case of opening opportunities for semi retired older workers who don’t need a 50 hour wage per week.

While as you say it seems where they do take up the idea it’s not by choice it’s only because they can’t make their required weekly shift patterns work any other way.While in all other cases the labour market seems geared up for employing as few people as possible working as many days/hours as possible together with multi tasking requirements often to laughable levels.

The OP seems to have got lucky regardless in that regard.

manalishi:

OVLOV JAY:
Only you two can hijack a thread about a guy looking for a specific shift pattern tramping job, and turn it into a political spat. There’s a time and a place, why don’t one of you start a thread in Bully’s, because this ain’t the time or place :unamused:

If you did but know it,two stags locking antlers like these two,considerably elevates the landscape.Gold dust.Sort of beats ,‘what sat nav should i buy’? would you not say? :unamused:

Its edukayshunal manalushi. Apparently I always want to employ desperate people so I can make them work long hours in an exploitative fashion before they shuffle off to their mud hovel.

Part time didnt work for us because there was no rhythm to our work, very quiet, very busy you could never tell, and even in a van the arctic circle is not close enough to be anything but a week.

From my own pov, the only issue with job share is finding someone that would want the hours the other didnt want. Employers NIC would not have been a factor.

Right back to dreaming of the years I could make my employees lives a living hell, ah those were the days.