28 minutes

[carryfast]

kr79:
Id say most modern diesels offer fairly decent performance and in urban areas little difference could be made by some american v8 ambulance. Id guess a decent susspension set up would be of more use than speed.
Yes they may use v8 chevys in the states but remember most vans are petrol engined there too

Firstly the country as a whole isn’t an ‘urban area’ and that includes most of it’s counties including this one.While even London Ambulance service obviously saw some benefit in equipping it’s fleet with the LDV V8’s bearing in mind the size of it’s area under ‘Greater London’ and the potential distances between the scene of an accident and the nearest major hospital.In which case,assuming someone was involved in an accident in somewhere like Tolworth or Chessington for example,they’d better hope that the driver of the ambulance is going to drive the thing accordingly,which hopefully won’t mean observing the speed limits and the highway code at all times.While having said that those American type ones which we had here often travelled within the London boundary too because much of Surrey’s hospital provision is now in those areas.

As for the issue of diesel v petrol it doesn’t really matter it’s the actual outputs that matter.In which case it’s a shame that there weren’t any Brit built ambulances made to follow the LDV V8 petrol ones using the Range Rover V8 diesel.In the absence of which the American type using a big block Chevy V8 petrol is just as good if not better.

It’s just that in either case they aren’t the cheapest option which is actually what the whole issue,of our compromised emergency services and hospital provision,is all about.

[carryfast]

Happy Keith:

Carryfast:

Happy Keith:
‘…So, let me get this properly understood … We’re on here bickering …’ etc

‘…The problem is that you can bet that UKIP’s manifesto won’t include a …’ etc

What’s the point in diverting facts with a sparse idea of guessed-at specifics of a guessed-at manifesto - and then getting upset & confrontational about it

I’m ‘on thread’ FFS

mickyblue:
‘… post … a shame it’s been hijacked about ukip etc…’

+1

You seemed happy enough to raise the EU memebership contributions issue concerning money which would be better spent at home which certainly is relevant to the topic.It’s just that you seem to have then got a bit upset because I’ve raised the question,concerning wether that money would actually be returned to where it belongs,‘if’ the only political party we’ve got that’s ( rightly ) standing on a manifesto of EU withdrawal,did,by some miracle,get elected.

As you’ve seen I’m doubtful on that issue based on the history of past UK taxation and spending policies which have often been shown to be just as much of a rip off as the EU over the years.

[buzzardboy]

I was JD’s mate who witnessed this accident. The whys and wherefores of who’s at fault doesn’t matter, this thread isn’t about that.

I called the emergency services at 12:14, again at 12:30 and again at 12:40 to find out where they were. I do know the reason it took 28 minutes for them to arrive but I am not going to put it on an open forum where it can be viewed by members of the deceased’s mans family. Once the inquest has been held only then will the true facts of what happened become known. I know what happened as I saw it first hand, and it will live with me forever.
Whilst people all like a bit of gossip, I do myself, just remember a man, a husband, a father and a grandparent has lost his life just going about his daily life

RIP David Simpson, Sorry I couldn’t do more :0(

[d4c24a]

Carryfast:
It’s just that in either case they aren’t the cheapest option which is actually what the whole issue,of our compromised emergency services and hospital provision,is all about.

carpages.co.uk/mercedes_benz … _11_03.asp

[carryfast]

d4c24a:

Carryfast:
It’s just that in either case they aren’t the cheapest option which is actually what the whole issue,of our compromised emergency services and hospital provision,is all about.

carpages.co.uk/mercedes_benz … _11_03.asp

chacha.com/question/how-much … -chevrolet

The idea that the Merc is more powerful than what the LDV would/could have provided sounds like total bs to me assuming that fuel economy is put back where it belongs at the bottom of the priority list rather than at the top. LDV V8’s shared the same V8 engines and trans as the Land Rover V8 and as such there’s no reason why the LDV’s development couldn’t have followed that from the previous Rover 4.6 Litre V8 ( which certainly put out more than 156 hp) up to the present Jaguar based 5.0 Litre V8 with 370 hp while providing British jobs for British workers.

Although having said that even the 253 hp V6 diesel would be a far more powerful option than the gutless Merc,with a torque advantage over the 5.0 Litre V8 petrol.

While if not I’d prefer to see American workers get the job than German ones especially as there’s no argument about the superiority of the US product at least in regards to performance.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Discovery#Engines

Yeah right ambulance chiefs are looking forward to the fuel savings of a gutless 156 hp diesel powered ambulance so they can save the tax bills of the rich like highly paid footballers etc who can then spend it on their private 5.0 Litre Petrol V8 Range Rovers to go clubbing or shopping with.

[d4c24a]

anything american does not like going round corners ,you know like all the high powered sports cars they produce not good for the UK
the merc would have been more powerful as the LDV used the old rover V8 , the LDV could also not compete with the need for over 3.5 ton
and where is LDV now , that would be great if you had a fleet of them now ,they were always crap a cheap pretender

[carryfast]

d4c24a:
anything american does not like going round corners ,you know like all the high powered sports cars they produce not good for the UK
the merc would have been more powerful as the LDV used the old rover V8 , the LDV could also not compete with the need for over 3.5 ton
and where is LDV now , that would be great if you had a fleet of them now ,they were always crap a cheap pretender

Suggest you check out the figures for the Rover 4.6 Litre V8 which was the final development of the old pushrod V8.London Ambulance would have still needed to be using the old 3.5 Litre dating back to the late 1960’s if they’re only putting out less than 156 hp.In which case maybe they should have trained their workshops in how to do a decent engine upgrade programme.Maybe just an oil change and a service was all they could afford over the years.

As for throwing the things round corners I thought it was all about not throwing patients around going through roundabouts and bends.In which case it would be interesting to put one of Surrey’s old Chevy’s up against one of those new Mercs in a race to Kingston hospital from junction 9 or 10 of the M25 or from Esher for example. Although having said that don’t believe everything you read about the cornering ability of US mergency vehicles.

youtube.com/watch?v=OmLNvW5xA_g

No surprise that type of service here is only reserved for private patients using private ambulance services now that they’ve been sold off in exchange for the cheap option for the peasants.

[mickyblue]

Carryfast:

d4c24a:
anything american does not like going round corners ,you know like all the high powered sports cars they produce not good for the UK
the merc would have been more powerful as the LDV used the old rover V8 , the LDV could also not compete with the need for over 3.5 ton
and where is LDV now , that would be great if you had a fleet of them now ,they were always crap a cheap pretender

Suggest you check out the figures for the Rover 4.6 Litre V8 which was the final development of the old pushrod V8.London Ambulance would have still needed to be using the old 3.5 Litre dating back to the late 1960’s if they’re only putting out less than 156 hp.In which case maybe they should have trained their workshops in how to do a decent engine upgrade programme.Maybe just an oil change and a service was all they could afford over the years.

As for throwing the things round corners I thought it was all about not throwing patients around going through roundabouts and bends.In which case it would be interesting to put one of Surrey’s old Chevy’s up against one of those new Mercs in a race to Kingston hospital from junction 9 or 10 of the M25 or from Esher for example.

No surprise that type of service is only reserved for private patients using private ambulance services now that they’ve been sold off in exchange for the cheap option for the peasants.

Can I ask what relevance this has with the topic?

[d4c24a]

1995 ldv 400 V8

I have given it a tidy in the engine bay, and did some baseline runs on the dyno before some “tuning” work commences! Initially it made 102 hp at the rear wheels, and after trying several different settings on the ignition timing ended up at 108 at the rear wheels - pretty good increase for no expense! I have since removed the factory fitted restrictors in the intake and exhaust, and will run it again on the dyno to see where that puts us. These run the 3.5L Rover V8 8.13:1 engine on SU’s and make around 125hp stock at the flywheel, interestingly this van has the later crossbolt type block, but without the crossbolts. The oil pump is also the early style, and drive is by V belts instead of serpentine. I might possibly go to a 3.9 or 4.6 engine later for a bit more torque, we shall see. It has single leaf tapered springs on all four corners (yes beam front axle!) and the big four pot AP front calipers as per Rover Vitesse.

[carryfast]

mickyblue:

Carryfast:

d4c24a:
anything american does not like going round corners ,you know like all the high powered sports cars they produce not good for the UK
the merc would have been more powerful as the LDV used the old rover V8 , the LDV could also not compete with the need for over 3.5 ton
and where is LDV now , that would be great if you had a fleet of them now ,they were always crap a cheap pretender

Suggest you check out the figures for the Rover 4.6 Litre V8 which was the final development of the old pushrod V8.London Ambulance would have still needed to be using the old 3.5 Litre dating back to the late 1960’s if they’re only putting out less than 156 hp.In which case maybe they should have trained their workshops in how to do a decent engine upgrade programme.Maybe just an oil change and a service was all they could afford over the years.

As for throwing the things round corners I thought it was all about not throwing patients around going through roundabouts and bends.In which case it would be interesting to put one of Surrey’s old Chevy’s up against one of those new Mercs in a race to Kingston hospital from junction 9 or 10 of the M25 or from Esher for example.

No surprise that type of service is only reserved for private patients using private ambulance services now that they’ve been sold off in exchange for the cheap option for the peasants.

Can I ask what relevance this has with the topic?

If arguing about government cost cutting,which downgrades hospitals,thereby increasing the catchment area of capable hospitals,leading to greater distances needing to be covered and over subscribed hospitals resulting in delays which tie up ambulances and their crews,and which impacts the performance of ambulances and the distances required to be covered between accident scenes and capable hospitals,isn’t relevant to the topic then nothing is.

[carryfast]

d4c24a:
1995 ldv 400 V8

I have given it a tidy in the engine bay, and did some baseline runs on the dyno before some “tuning” work commences! Initially it made 102 hp at the rear wheels, and after trying several different settings on the ignition timing ended up at 108 at the rear wheels - pretty good increase for no expense! I have since removed the factory fitted restrictors in the intake and exhaust, and will run it again on the dyno to see where that puts us. These run the 3.5L Rover V8 8.13:1 engine on SU’s and make around 125hp stock at the flywheel, interestingly this van has the later crossbolt type block, but without the crossbolts. The oil pump is also the early style, and drive is by V belts instead of serpentine. I might possibly go to a 3.9 or 4.6 engine later for a bit more torque, we shall see. It has single leaf tapered springs on all four corners (yes beam front axle!) and the big four pot AP front calipers as per Rover Vitesse.

4.6 engine and this is the way to go.

webcon.co.uk/shop/shopexd.asp?id=15133

[constantine]

Carryfast:
Sounds to me like the same sort of bs that the politicians rely on

Unfortunately Carryfast it is you who is behaving like a bs politician.
Exactly what you are doing here is smokescreening the true problem here yabbering on about V8s being the entire answer to our emergency healthcare transport. Which is how our politicians would look at the problem at face value rather than the actual deep seated problem.

It isn’t that simple is it. Everything has to be paid for in our society whether we like it or not. If they were cheaper and better they’d be picked wouldn’t they. If you can prove they are get on an NHS board as a volunteer member and lobby like ■■■■ to get more trained ambulance crews and Chevy vehicles on the road

And until we become a true socialist society and pay more tax for our services and we become a country of doers like Australia we won’t have the luxury of poncing about arguing whether a chevy is better than a merc to transport critically ill patients.

The real problem is about capacity and capability to deal with the demand. I know what id want everytime for example three diesel merc ambulances with fully trained crews spread out to serve the demand properly rather than having one speedy gonzalase chevy.

Personally I wish we did live in Carryfast’s ideal healthcare system world unfortunately the reality will never happen as we don’t truly want to pay for it as a country.

Its like people saying the NHS is becoming a third world healthcare system, Id say open your ■■■■■■■ eyes go to a third world country and see their healthcare system and then comeback and compare. Hell i wouldn’t even want America’s excuse of a system!

Anyway like what was said above what did this ever have to do with the original posting. Chatting about V8s and how they have been fitted■■?

Buzzardboy I send my condolences for what you had to witness and how you feel And to the family of Mr Simpson’s who are going to be going through a terrible time, my words will bring them no solace but at least show them people are thinking of them. I hope the coroner’s inquest exposes the true events and tries to address them to try and prevent it happening again!

C

[happy_keith]

Constantine:
‘…I wish we did live in [an] ideal healthcare system … unfortunately the reality will never happen as we don’t truly want to pay for it as a country…’

I suspect that many today do want to pay for improvements by re-prioritising national expenditure based on what the UK needs.

We work hard for it so why not

Not since our parents were asked in the 1970’s have we been asked how foreigners based in Brussels should spend our money

‘Common Market’ sounded cosy but it’s proven to us on this thread that it’s denying us the basics of a decent infrastructure.

What’s so wrong with us spending our tax-money addressing our national needs - and not mutely subscribing toward fancy water fountains in Bulgaria or Donkey Killing Festivals in Portugal

[alder]

albion1971:
If people drove properly in the first place these horrible accidents would not happen.

There was nothing to say it was human error, it could have been mechanical failure? Even if it was human error your comment is redundant as human error exists no matter how good you are. The driver may have a sudden medical problem, may have succumbed to fatigue or maybe a sudden event happened to make the traffic to stop abruptly, animal for instance?

[carryfast]

Constantine:

Carryfast:
Sounds to me like the same sort of bs that the politicians rely on

Unfortunately Carryfast it is you who is behaving like a bs politician.
Exactly what you are doing here is smokescreening the true problem here yabbering on about V8s being the entire answer to our emergency healthcare transport. Which is how our politicians would look at the problem at face value rather than the actual deep seated problem.

It isn’t that simple is it. Everything has to be paid for in our society whether we like it or not. If they were cheaper and better they’d be picked wouldn’t they. If you can prove they are get on an NHS board as a volunteer member and lobby like [zb] to get more trained ambulance crews and Chevy vehicles on the road

And until we become a true socialist society and pay more tax for our services and we become a country of doers like Australia we won’t have the luxury of poncing about arguing whether a chevy is better than a merc to transport critically ill patients.

The real problem is about capacity and capability to deal with the demand. I know what id want everytime for example three diesel merc ambulances with fully trained crews spread out to serve the demand properly rather than having one speedy gonzalase chevy.

Personally I wish we did live in Carryfast’s ideal healthcare system world unfortunately the reality will never happen as we don’t truly want to pay for it as a country.

Its like people saying the NHS is becoming a third world healthcare system, Id say open your [zb] eyes go to a third world country and see their healthcare system and then comeback and compare. Hell i wouldn’t even want America’s excuse of a system!

Anyway like what was said above what did this ever have to do with the original posting. Chatting about V8s and how they have been fitted■■?

Buzzardboy I send my condolences for what you had to witness and how you feel And to the family of Mr Simpson’s who are going to be going through a terrible time, my words will bring them no solace but at least show them people are thinking of them. I hope the coroner’s inquest exposes the true events and tries to address them to try and prevent it happening again!

C

If you’ve read my posts I haven’t said anywhere that just the provision of decent fast ambulances would solve all the problems of cost cutting in the health service.It’s the ‘combination’ of downgraded local hospitals having lost their A and E departments and/or surgical capabilities and the move to so called ‘centres of excellence’,which creates overcrowding in those hospitals which are left that can handle the job.Which ties up ambulances and crews waiting to hand over one casualty/ies before they can go out and sort out the next job and also creates longer distances needed to be travelled between hospital and patient/accident scene.‘Then’ ,to add insult to injury,they want to use gutless ambulances with a power to weight ratio of less than 40 hp per tonne to cover all that.

As for bs socialism the type of 390 hp ambulances which I’m advocating are/were of course a product of capitalism not socialism and are more likely to be found in developed capitalist countries like Australia,New Zealand and North America than China.The bit which you seem to have missed is the difference between ‘developed’ modern capitalism v the type of so called retrograde degenerate zb version of capitalism which we’ve got here now,which is actually closer to communism.

While I haven’t said anywhere that that they’d be used in lesser numbers than the cheap poverty spec heaps which have been chosen.As I’ve said it’s all about getting priorities right and the idea that we should be using 156 hp ambulances to propel 4 t along the road in an emergency situation to save taxes for the rich,so they can use the money saved to buy a 350 hp + Range Rover to go shopping with,says everything.As I’ve said that is closer to communism than capitalism.

[rob_k]

Only Carryfast could turn a topic about a man dying and a delayed ambulance into a full blown one on Chevrolet V8 engines.

[carryfast]

Rob K:
Only Carryfast could turn a topic about a man dying and a delayed ambulance into a full blown one on Chevrolet V8 engines.

Not exactly.Suggest you read my posts properly instead of just selecting the bits that seem to upset you for some reason.But yeah right if you think it’s right to power a front line ambulance used for emergency situations with less than 40 hp per tonne that’s your choice.Especially considering that the thing is likely to be delayed by the policy of downgrading hospitals and higher distances needing to be travelled before it even starts.

[constantine]

Rob K:
Only Carryfast could turn a topic about a man dying and a delayed ambulance into a full blown one on Chevrolet V8 engines.

Rob I am going to agree on that one, I got drawn into the argument and still am when I should have just and carried on to the next thread.

Carryfast:
As for bs socialism the type of 390 hp ambulances which I’m advocating are/were of course a product of capitalism not socialism and are more likely to be found in developed capitalist countries like Australia,New Zealand and North America than China.The bit which you seem to have missed is the difference between ‘developed’ modern capitalism v the type of so called retrograde degenerate zb version of capitalism which we’ve got here now,which is actually closer to communism.

While I haven’t said anywhere that that they’d be used in lesser numbers than the cheap poverty spec heaps which have been chosen.As I’ve said it’s all about getting priorities right and the idea that we should be using 156 hp ambulances to propel 4 t along the road in an emergency situation to save taxes for the rich,so they can use the money saved to buy a 350 hp + Range Rover to go shopping with,says everything.As I’ve said that is closer to communism than capitalism.

You haven’t said anywhere about lesser numbers, true. But if the Chevy’s cost more, need more maintenance, burn more fuel, then someone is going to say we can’t have too many of these on the road, as we cannot afford them. So surely then your supposedly originaly argument about having more hospitals and health care services would advocate using your

Carryfast:
cheap poverty spec heap ambulances

as then you won’t be impacting the hospital budgets, drug treatments and services and there would be more ambulances with trained paramedics on the road to provided the actual care needed. Not just loud, fast chevy’s flying up and down the roads, getting us to a hospital all of 5 seconds faster overall.

I suggest you speak to some people who have had the misfortune of living in communist countries throughout the generations and I think you would find most would prefer to have your

Carryfast:
cheap poverty spec heap ambulances

rather than having nothing at all before.

As for the bs socialism quote have a look at some of the developed countries that have a socialist (not a communism as you are trying to define it) agenda, you might be suprised to see most of them are quite developed and doing ok in the world today.

Finally for saving taxes for the rich, is it not you who advocates paying as little tax as possible as well into the system? It’s just as bad anyone not paying taxes regardless of their supposedly rich income! If we all went with that ideal we would become the true capitalistic 51st state of America. And trust me a lot of us would be a lot worse off, including myself.

A bit like the state refuses to pay for any upkeep of a number of emergency services we rely on including air ambulances. Something any of us god forbid might need one day and quite possibly frequently see in the course of our work!

We have a problem like this in East Anglia that keeps allowing incidents like this to happen, so don’t get paranoid that somehow in the South East you are being disadvantaged and that everyone is supposedly lording it over you in their “mansions and range rovers” Its happening all over the country and scarily no-one is questioning why?!

My original point to my very first post was to try and fight the system about emergency healthcare cover and the cuts that are coming now and the future ones. So we can try to prevent something like this happening again without a very good reason and people needlessly dying.

Not the 5 odd posts above about the benefits on a V8 engine and how they are fitted for more power. The last time I saw an ambulance and was in the back of it, it wasn’t the V8 engine keeping that patient alive! That’s what has truly got my goat with your last couple of posts!

C

[carryfast]

Constantine:

Rob K:
Only Carryfast could turn a topic about a man dying and a delayed ambulance into a full blown one on Chevrolet V8 engines.

Rob I am going to agree on that one, I got drawn into the argument and still am when I should have just and carried on to the next thread.

Carryfast:
As for bs socialism the type of 390 hp ambulances which I’m advocating are/were of course a product of capitalism not socialism and are more likely to be found in developed capitalist countries like Australia,New Zealand and North America than China.The bit which you seem to have missed is the difference between ‘developed’ modern capitalism v the type of so called retrograde degenerate zb version of capitalism which we’ve got here now,which is actually closer to communism.

While I haven’t said anywhere that that they’d be used in lesser numbers than the cheap poverty spec heaps which have been chosen.As I’ve said it’s all about getting priorities right and the idea that we should be using 156 hp ambulances to propel 4 t along the road in an emergency situation to save taxes for the rich,so they can use the money saved to buy a 350 hp + Range Rover to go shopping with,says everything.As I’ve said that is closer to communism than capitalism.

You haven’t said anywhere about lesser numbers, true. But if the Chevy’s cost more, need more maintenance, burn more fuel, then someone is going to say we can’t have too many of these on the road, as we cannot afford them. So surely then your supposedly originaly argument about having more hospitals and health care services would advocate using your

Carryfast:
cheap poverty spec heap ambulances

as then you won’t be impacting the hospital budgets, drug treatments and services and there would be more ambulances with trained paramedics on the road to provided the actual care needed. Not just loud, fast chevy’s flying up and down the roads, getting us to a hospital all of 5 seconds faster overall.

I suggest you speak to some people who have had the misfortune of living in communist countries throughout the generations and I think you would find most would prefer to have your

Carryfast:
cheap poverty spec heap ambulances

rather than having nothing at all before.

As for the bs socialism quote have a look at some of the developed countries that have a socialist (not a communism as you are trying to define it) agenda, you might be suprised to see most of them are quite developed and doing ok in the world today.

Finally for saving taxes for the rich, is it not you who advocates paying as little tax as possible as well into the system? It’s just as bad anyone not paying taxes regardless of their supposedly rich income! If we all went with that ideal we would become the true capitalistic 51st state of America. And trust me a lot of us would be a lot worse off, including myself.

A bit like the state refuses to pay for any upkeep of a number of emergency services we rely on including air ambulances. Something any of us god forbid might need one day and quite possibly frequently see in the course of our work!

We have a problem like this in East Anglia that keeps allowing incidents like this to happen, so don’t get paranoid that somehow in the South East you are being disadvantaged and that everyone is supposedly lording it over you in their “mansions and range rovers” Its happening all over the country and scarily no-one is questioning why?!

My original point to my very first post was to try and fight the system about emergency healthcare cover and the cuts that are coming now and the future ones. So we can try to prevent something like this happening again without a very good reason and people needlessly dying.

Not the 5 odd posts above about the benefits on a V8 engine and how they are fitted for more power. The last time I saw an ambulance and was in the back of it, it wasn’t the V8 engine keeping that patient alive! That’s what has truly got my goat with your last couple of posts!

C

That sounds like a typical Labour Party political broadcast to me.So you’re saying let’s have socialism because it’s supposedly better when all the evidence says it’s not.

You’re also saying that,although it’s supposed to be an emergency vehicle,we don’t need to give an ambulance a decent performance because speed is never going to be an issue both in regards to getting the patient to hospital or response time before the medics even get to the patient to start with.All based on the bs issue of cost because under the present state funded system the money just isn’t there.

When what’s actually needed is for people to be paid decent wages to afford to pay the going rate privately for their health and emergency cover,in an economy that hasn’t been thrown to global free market and maybe helped and subsidised with a decent taxation system that reflects that very real issue which I’ve identified of taxation policy concerning the rich. So as to do something about that situation of up to 350 hp + Range Rovers being used for shopping,while the masses get a 156 hp 4 t ambulance for that emergency dash in response to and on route to hospital in the event of a life threatening illness or injury,in which every minute spent waiting and then on the road,as opposed to in the operating theatre,could be the difference between life and death.Especially in a situation of delays and extra distances caused by cost cutting in the bs NHS system,on the basis of replacing lots of well equipped well staffed hospitals, covering lots of different areas,with one so called ‘centre of excellence’ which no surprise causes increased travel times and massive backlogs of patients because of the overcrowding caused by the increased catchment area.

The fact is socialism and communism are both excatly the same bs systems and this country has had more than it’s fair share of both regardless of the political title of the government and being subjected to yet more of the same,which you’re obviously proposing,isn’t the answer.Maybe in your case the speed of the ambulance,in regards to response time and travel time to hospital,didn’t matter but that doesn’t mean that’s the same in every situation.Although it’s no surprise that the socialists wouldn’t be able to get their heads around the idea of every situation being different in just the same way that socialism and communism,by definition,uses a one size fits all policy in regards to everything.IE it’s easy enough to not use all the performance of a fast ambulance when it’s not needed.But it’s impossible to use that performance, when it is needed,if it’s not there.Socialism bs.

[mickyblue]

Rob K:
Only Carryfast could turn a topic about a man dying and a delayed ambulance into a full blown one on Chevrolet V8 engines.

+1

That’s what he is known for. Hijacking a thread and twisting it in to a debate. I thin he has also forgot it’s a thread about a poor driver minding his own business and gets killed.

I feel sorry for anyone who had to witness that