28 minutes

[carryfast]

Chas:

Frankydobo:

Finally, Albions point seems to be if drivers were more careful there would be less injuries and deaths on our roads (only he didn’t put it quite the same). Not deemed accidents anymore but collisions, indicating that there is always someone or something to blame (his point), which to be honest is true if thought about logically. All the more reason to be 100% on the ball when out on the road, nobody wants a persons death pinned to them and blaming the emergency services for not saving a life when this life had been put in jeapody by someone’s fault, dangerous act or ommision in the first place isn’t really what we should be directing our anger at. Stay safe out there!

An occasional member of the bike riding gang of rogues, vagabonds & ne’er do wellers I ride out with is an ambulance paramedic. To say he is stressed out is an understatement. The problems that the ambulance service are facing have mostly been manufactured by successive governments, coupled to an unbelievably incompetant management structure.

The absolutely last thing these folk on the front line need is the publics false perception of their jobs, created through the gutter press by the people who have caused the problems in the first place.

Somebody is trying really hard to totally screw up our Ambulance service & nobody seems to be bothered why !

^ This.

It seems to be a country run by the bankers for the bankers who no doubt have their own private emergency number for their own private ambulance service using fast American type ambulances to take them to their private hospital A and E where every type of surgical trauma requirement is catered for.Unlike the two hour wait on the trolley at the nearest hospital A and E,which might not even have the relevant capabilities after the latest 'rationalisation of the NHS services,after the poverty spec diesel powered heap has managed to get them there,assuming it arrived on scene in time,for the masses.All to save the employers having to pay for decent cover in the form of decent wages.

[chas]

Carryfast:
^ This.

It seems to be a country run by the bankers for the bankers who no doubt have their own private emergency number for their own private ambulance service using fast American type ambulances to take them to their private hospital A and E where every type of surgical trauma requirement is catered for.Unlike the two hour wait on the trolley at the nearest hospital A and E,which might not even have the relevant capabilities after the latest 'rationalisation of the NHS services,after the poverty spec diesel powered heap has managed to get them there,assuming it arrived on scene in time,for the masses.All to save the employers having to pay for decent cover in the form of decent wages.

My mate was telling me recently the reasons why he has to hang around A&E for several hours every shift.

Apparently, A&E Dept’s have targets to achieve just like the Ambulance service do. If a patient is in the Ambulance at the door to A&E then they belong to the Ambulance service targets & not A&E’s. Obviously the patient is triage’d but how many knuckle draggerz even know what that means?

It might take 28mins for an Ambulance to arrive, but depending on the severity of your injuries, it might take 3hrs for you to be admitted to your local, friendly, neighbourhood A&E Dep’t.

My mate was telling me a story that I simply refuse to believe is true. He clocked on his shift & was immediately dispatched to an RTC that was already 15mins old. They spent 4hrs at A&E before the patient was admitted, then they relieved a crew that had just turned up at A&E to spend another 3hrs before that patient was admitted. An entire shift of a very expensive emergency response ambulance with 2 highly trained paramedics taken up by 1x RTC with 8hrs waiting at the door to A&E.

Something is VERY wrong & our gutter press isn’t reflecting the true nature of the problem by printing stories of interest only to their braindead clientele.

[rambo19]

They can’t get there within 5 minutes all the time.

I called the police once about a robbery that had happened in a cab office I worked at, the police were there before I even got off the phone!!!

Emergency services can’t be perfect everytime.

[nedflanders]

rip to the guy that was killed my heart goes out to his family
but look at the situation in Ireland and then think how lucky we are here

two recent episodes

A distraught mother had to drive her unconscious child to hospital while an ambulanceman tended to him in the back seat of the car, Pearse Doherty TD has said.

The TD for Donegal South West told Newstalk Radio today that he had been contacted by health care staff after the incident which, he said, occurred last Tuesday.

“When a mother discovered her young son unconscious, she phoned the emergency services for an ambulance,” he said.

“An ambulance was sent out but there was only one paramedic on duty because the other had phoned in sick.

“When the paramedic saw that the child was unconscious, he called and asked for a second ambulance, because he could not drive the ambulance and attend to the child.

“He was told that the nearest ambulance was 45 minutes away. He then asked the HSE to contact paramedics living near the woman’s home to see if they would be able to assist him but the HSE refused,” Deputy Doherty continued.

“The paramedic had to make a judgement call. He asked the woman to drive to the hospital, so that he could tend to her child in the back seat, while the ambulance, with all its equipment, had to be left behind.

“That a parent should have to drive their unconscious child to a hospital after an ambulance has been called and arrived at the scene is unacceptable.

“The HSE has confirmed that there was only one paramedic on duty in the Letterkenny area last Tuesday between 5pm and 8pm. That is also unacceptable. When the paramedic phoned in sick, another should have been called on duty or at the very least, paramedics living nearby should have been called to assist

“Thank God the child is okay but this could have been a terrible, terrible story. This was a very, very close shave.”

It has emerged that a Garda Sergeant in County Meath had to drive an ambulance with an injured child to hospital last week, because of a shortage of paramedic staff on duty.

The National Ambulance Service Representative Association has said lives are being put at risk due to the shortage of staff.

The incident happened near Dunsany after a car containing three children and a woman veered off the road and dropped 30 feet before hitting a tree.

One of the ambulances at the scene had a sole crew member which meant the Garda had to jump behind the wheel.

Mick Dixon, National Chairman of the National Ambulance Service Representative Association, says lives are being put at risk.

He said: "It is going to be an ongoing issue, this really is a cost-cutting measure, it’s about saving money.

[carryfast]

rambo19:
They can’t get there within 5 minutes all the time.

I called the police once about a robbery that had happened in a cab office I worked at, the police were there before I even got off the phone!!!

Emergency services can’t be perfect everytime.

No but they can get there a lot quicker if they’re given vehicles which are as fast as possible regardless of fuel consumption and given carte blanche to drive them accordingly and haven’t got to waste time,that could be spent on the road doing their job,looking after patients on trolleys.Because they can’t be admitted to overcrowded A and E departments.Because too many patients from a too wide catchment area,have been concentrated into too few hospitals left after closures of other more local ones.Or having to waste time transferring victims after they’ve managed to get seen,because although the hospital in question might still have it’s A and E depertment left,it’s specialist surgical trauma capabilities,have been closed down and concentrated in yet another even more overcrowded oversubscribed hospital elsewhere.

[carryfast]

nedflanders:
rip to the guy that was killed my heart goes out to his family
but look at the situation in Ireland and then think how lucky we are here

two recent episodes

A distraught mother had to drive her unconscious child to hospital while an ambulanceman tended to him in the back seat of the car, Pearse Doherty TD has said.

The TD for Donegal South West told Newstalk Radio today that he had been contacted by health care staff after the incident which, he said, occurred last Tuesday.

“When a mother discovered her young son unconscious, she phoned the emergency services for an ambulance,” he said.

“An ambulance was sent out but there was only one paramedic on duty because the other had phoned in sick.

“When the paramedic saw that the child was unconscious, he called and asked for a second ambulance, because he could not drive the ambulance and attend to the child.

“He was told that the nearest ambulance was 45 minutes away. He then asked the HSE to contact paramedics living near the woman’s home to see if they would be able to assist him but the HSE refused,” Deputy Doherty continued.

“The paramedic had to make a judgement call. He asked the woman to drive to the hospital, so that he could tend to her child in the back seat, while the ambulance, with all its equipment, had to be left behind.

“That a parent should have to drive their unconscious child to a hospital after an ambulance has been called and arrived at the scene is unacceptable.

“The HSE has confirmed that there was only one paramedic on duty in the Letterkenny area last Tuesday between 5pm and 8pm. That is also unacceptable. When the paramedic phoned in sick, another should have been called on duty or at the very least, paramedics living nearby should have been called to assist

“Thank God the child is okay but this could have been a terrible, terrible story. This was a very, very close shave.”

It has emerged that a Garda Sergeant in County Meath had to drive an ambulance with an injured child to hospital last week, because of a shortage of paramedic staff on duty.

The National Ambulance Service Representative Association has said lives are being put at risk due to the shortage of staff.

The incident happened near Dunsany after a car containing three children and a woman veered off the road and dropped 30 feet before hitting a tree.

One of the ambulances at the scene had a sole crew member which meant the Garda had to jump behind the wheel.

Mick Dixon, National Chairman of the National Ambulance Service Representative Association, says lives are being put at risk.

He said: "It is going to be an ongoing issue, this really is a cost-cutting measure, it’s about saving money.

One of the common denominators between Ireland and UK seems to be that too much money has been spent on costs and resulting debts built up through EU membership rather than keeping the money at home where it belongs.

[nedflanders]

+1

[santa]

When I was a TM in the NHS I had a close relationship with the ambulance service. There are many problems today that are generally blamed on cost cutting but are more to do with stuff like the WTD and the huge cost of high tech services.

High speed V8 powered ambulances were demonstrated to be less effective that the diesel powered equivalents simply because they tended to crash and break down so much more often. An A&E department does not stand alone in a hospital - it needs all kinds of backup services, CT scanners, MRI scanners, consultants in all disciplines and high dependency beds. It is simply not possible to provide these services at every hospital and so the serious cases have to go to centres of excellence.

The problem is compounded by the considerable number of people who turn up at A&E with minor problems that they should have gone to their GP with. Not to mention the wino’s and druggies.

[carryfast]

Santa:
When I was a TM in the NHS I had a close relationship with the ambulance service. There are many problems today that are generally blamed on cost cutting but are more to do with stuff like the WTD and the huge cost of high tech services.

High speed V8 powered ambulances were demonstrated to be less effective that the diesel powered equivalents simply because they tended to crash and break down so much more often. An A&E department does not stand alone in a hospital - it needs all kinds of backup services, CT scanners, MRI scanners, consultants in all disciplines and high dependency beds. It is simply not possible to provide these services at every hospital and so the serious cases have to go to centres of excellence.

The problem is compounded by the considerable number of people who turn up at A&E with minor problems that they should have gone to their GP with. Not to mention the wino’s and druggies.

As far as I know I’ve never seen or read in the news of any emergencies locally being delayed by a broken down or crashed V8 Chevy ambulance.But I have seen more than a few of the modern diesel heaps accelerating out of roudabouts under blue lights slower than the average new driver in a Corsa unlike those old Chevys.

The idea of ‘centres of excellence’ isn’t going to be much use to someone who’s suffered a serious injury on the south west section of the M25 etc with Epsom being about to lose it’s A and E department and having already lost it’s main surgical capabilities leaving the choice between Kingston,St Georges or St Helier.All of which are underfunded and oversubscribed with a catcment area covering much of London in addition to those areas of North Surrey which are outside Guildford’s catchment area with Guildford also facing similar underfunding issues.The idea of ‘centres of excellence’ in reality is just another form of rationing and cost cutting within the bs NHS system,because the whole thing can’t provide a decent service covering all areas at an equal level as is required.All of which is in the interests of saving the bankers and employers money to aid so called ‘competitiveness’ with third world economies and/or economies like China where the value of human life is worth virtually nothing.The same applies in regards to the replacement of previously more capable,but less economic,ambulances with less capable,but more economic ones.

[dowahdiddyman]

Here in Buxton we have an ambulance station, there is another one in Ashbourne 22 mikes away, another no more than 15 minutes drive away etc. They are wanting to close all the local stations and have a couple of hubs. The nearest ambulance to Buxton will be stationed near the M1,AT LEAST 40 MINUTES AWAY.!

[jackomo]

I’ve got only one think to say. Next time you will see an emergency vehicle with blue lights in your mirror think about this 28 minutes.

[silver_surfer]

It’s always going to be a trade off between cost & service, this country quite simply is skint and will always be so from now on. The days of Empire are over & with North Sea oil on the way out an ageing population and massive debt we just haven’t got the resource to pay for first world services anymore.

To top it all off, now the Co Op are skint, investment grade to junk status in a day what’s the world coming to? You’ve guessed, I bank there, cheers. Hopefully the wider group will bail them out.

[euro]

"Its not like doing a trailer change … drop an swap …

its arrive with patient.
book in patient
hand over patient (when staff are available)
clean down trolley
swap blankets sheets etc
replenish equipment used if required
wash / clean down rear of ambulance
complete all job sheets and paperwork."

condolences and sympathy to those who suffered this incident

How about,
arrive with patient
ambulanceman #1 gets into waiting, prepared ambulance which has another ambulanceman waiting in it
ambulancemann #2 stays with patient to do handover and complete jobsheets (by Dictaphone, not quill pen and parchment) and preps next ambulance and waits in it

more expensive, I suppose

[dar1976]

Euro:
more expensive, I suppose

But what expense should be used to back up a human life?

Obviously more than is currently budgeted for.

[juddian]

OK the 28 minutes is scandalous there’s no getting away from that, and its desperately tragic that this poor fellow died without receiving any professional treatment.

Its not just having the fastest ambulance possible, though that might a few seconds difference on a blues and twos getting to a scene, once the injured is on board then doing a hell drivers display slinging it about like a sports car goes out the window, no good throwing the paramedic treating the injured person about like a rag doll, a sense of proportion needed here.

What is in no doubt is that our society is in big trouble, those who dictate to us have crammed a quart of population into a pint pot country without increasingly massively the necessary support infrastructure that such unprecedented population increases require, including providing enough of all emergency services to cope.

This is only going to get worse, we are looking at a constantly increasingly population now, this despite any curbs on immigration and that won’t happen anyway because the proletariat believe what they are told to believe and lack the wherewithall to see the truth through the propaganda.

This isn’t blaming immigrants by the way, its blaming those responsible for massively overpopulating the country without taking reponsibility for their actions.

[santa]

As far as I know I’ve never seen or read in the news of any emergencies locally being delayed by a broken down or crashed V8 Chevy ambulance.

I have no experience of the Chevy, but we had some Transits fitted with the Rover V8 and looked at the LDV (I think with the same engine).

The engines were not the problem in themselves, it was partly the problem that the rest of the vehicle was not up to the stresses of a high powered engine, driven fast. Ambulances are heavy. They carry a lot of kit, two attendants, and one or two patients who are often not the lightest people. The other problem was the drivers. Give an average bloke a racing car and he will drive fast, often faster than he is capable of. Add in a top heavy body, indifferent suspension and the adrenaline surge they get when the blues and two’s are going, and you have a recipe for disaster. Better to arrive a few minutes later than not at all.

Worcestershire are closing ambulance stations as well. They are going to create smaller bases, some (I believe) in Fire stations, from where the response times should actually improve.

[10-08]

Just seen this. bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22487603

East of England Ambulance Service said it had let both patients and staff down

An ambulance service, criticised for failing to meet response targets, is to spend £16,3m on upgrading its fleet.

The East of England Ambulance Service NHS Trust (EEAST) is investing £14m in new emergency ambulances and £2.3m in its response car fleet.

The vehicles will replace 145 A&E ambulances and 110 response cars by the end of June 2014.

“We anticipate 50 of the new ambulances will be in service before Christmas,” Director Paul Henry said.

“A further 47 coming into service during March 2014. The remaining 48 ambulances are expected to come into service between May and June 2014.”

EEAST provides ambulance services in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Norfolk and Suffolk.

The ambulance service has revealed plans to recruit more than 350 employees to improve patient care and staff morale.

The trust was ordered to improve by the Care Quality Commission (CQC) after its response times deteriorated.

In reply, the trust admitted it was letting both patients and staff down.

The trust said it planned to recruit 82 specialist paramedics, 149 paramedics, 24 emergency medical technicians and 96 emergency care assistants.

Last time we had to phone an ambulance when the farmers wife was having chest pains the nearest one available was in Norfolk. It’s better sometimes just to take someone to A&E if you can (and don’t mind blood in your car) because our ambulance service is ■■■■. At least in A&E they’ll get seen to at some point and they give you a nice leaflet on how to sue people too.

[roymondo]

dowahdiddyman:
Here in Buxton we have an ambulance station, there is another one in Ashbourne 22 mikes away, another no more than 15 minutes drive away etc. They are wanting to close all the local stations and have a couple of hubs. The nearest ambulance to Buxton will be stationed near the M1,AT LEAST 40 MINUTES AWAY.!

There is no reason why an ambulance has to remain at the ambulance station waiting for the next shout. For decades now it has been common practice for controllers to send ambulances to a suitable stand-by location between stations in order to ensure a timely response. The ambulance really only needs to be at the station at the beginning and end of the shift, or to re-supply partway through - all of which is just as easily done using fewer “hubs” rather than many local stations.

[nick2008]

Euro:
"Its not like doing a trailer change … drop an swap …

its arrive with patient.
book in patient
hand over patient (when staff are available)
clean down trolley
swap blankets sheets etc
replenish equipment used if required
wash / clean down rear of ambulance
complete all job sheets and paperwork."

condolences and sympathy to those who suffered this incident

How about,
arrive with patient
ambulanceman #1 gets into waiting, prepared ambulance which has another ambulanceman waiting in it
ambulancemann #2 stays with patient to do handover and complete jobsheets (by Dictaphone, not quill pen and parchment) and preps next ambulance and waits in it

more expensive, I suppose

ambo driver 1 hands over body
ambo driver books in ( two different things)
ambo 1 and 2 have to assist hosp staff to move body to hosp trolly WHEN available
ambo 1 is cleaning trolly whilst ambo 1 does hand over then they go back to ambo to clean it just not always able to have 1 person doing hand over booking etc or we’d have 1 man ambo crewed buses

by the way I have done ambo work and the average non emergency drop ie direct to ward was 40 to 60 min that’s arrive hand over clean and store before going live again that’s if you could hand to ward staff that’s available some times we had to wait and hand over to a Dr.

[greg]

It’s called government cut backs. Police, ambulance, fire, hospitals it all counts to the delay with every one having to travel greater distances an waiting longer to book people on because of staff shortages. Police are regularly attending jobs at the request of the ambulance only for them to say there not attending due to police being first aid trained and there’s no longer a need for them