28 day tacho rule digi card

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
21

brit pete:
TRY telling that to the belgian traffic control
why because they will fine you for not haveing
a printout,

What you mean is they will try to fine you. No driver will surely be daft enough to pay the fine for a non existent offence will they? All you gotta do is refuse to pay and demand to see their boss, you are 100% in the right and they are wrong so you can argue it all the way with confidence and at no point will you have to pay a fine. Nowhere in the regulations does it say you must carry printouts and those regulations are EU wide so the Belgians just can’t change them because they haven’t got enough card readers. That is their problem and not the driver’s

22

brit pete:
TRY telling that to the belgian traffic control
why because they will fine you for not haveing
a printout,why because they do not have
enough machines

So their justification for fining you is that they haven’t been organised enough to buy enough card readers? I don’t see how they can do that when you’ve done nothing that is against the rules. What offence do they fine you for? I doubt it would stand up in court.

brit pete:
the reason they do you is that when driveing
a truck with a drivers card you are able to supply a printout
where as when driveinga normal tachograph truck you can
not

But surely you can only print out that day’s information or can you use a digital tacho to print out information about previous shifts on your card even if they’re from another truck?

Either way I don’t see any fine they try and give you sticking in court cos you’re sticking to the letter of the rules and they’re just trying to make excuses for them not being organised in time (which given we’ve had digital tachos for almost 2 years now is really quite poor of them!)

Paul

23

Mike-C:

brit pete:
TRY telling that to the belgian traffic control
,

I’ll give it a go if i ever go over, thanks Pete !!

I’ve had discussions with them and the French control people in the past Mike, not on this issue but on other things they have tried, and I have a 100% success rate against them. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: Just because they have a uniform and a hat you don’t have to bend over and lube up when they want to shaft you, you can fight back.

24

mike you need only a writtenrecord when

Either

you have to make a written record due to
a unforseen problem and you have gone over your
hours,or have made a mistake and wish to correct it
or
]when you driveing a analouge tacograph lorry
and have driven a vehicle with a drivers card before,
why because you can not provide a readable record of
your driveing time,and not evry police force has the ability
to read your card that is why
it is your resposibility to provide a readable copy of
your driveing time and not their job to have a machine
with them.

25

brit pete:
mike you need only a writtenrecord when
you driveing a analouge tacograph lorry
and have driven a vehicle with a drivers card before,
why because you can not provide a readable record of
your driveing time,and not evry police force has the ability
to read your card that is why
it is your resposibility to provide a readable copy of
your driveing time and not their job to have a machine
with them.

No, this is wrong, you do NOT need a printed record in this case. Whoever has told you this is lying and no fine for it would ever be legal. As I’ve said several times on different threads in the last few days it’s not your fault if they don’t have a card reader, their problem not yours.

Paul

26

brit pete:
mike you need only a writtenrecord when

Either

you have to make a written record due to
a unforseen problem and you have gone over your
hours,or have made a mistake and wish to correct it

This is correct Pete, this is a perfect example of the printouts that we do need to take and keep.

or
]when you driveing a analouge tacograph lorry
and have driven a vehicle with a drivers card before,
why because you can not provide a readable record of
your driveing time,and not evry police force has the ability
to read your card that is why
it is your resposibility to provide a readable copy of
your driveing time and not their job to have a machine
with them.

No sorry Pete, they are making this bit up.

27

brit pete:
mike you need only a writtenrecord when

Either

you have to make a written record due to
a unforseen problem and you have gone over your
hours,or have made a mistake and wish to correct it

Now if only you had stopped there this post would be 100% correct.
However

or

brit pete:
]when you driveing a analouge tacograph lorry
and have driven a vehicle with a drivers card before,
why because you can not provide a readable record of
your driveing time,and not evry police force has the ability
to read your card that is why
it is your resposibility to provide a readable copy of
your driveing time and not their job to have a machine
with them.

Not one single bit of this is correct. Pete please try to show us where in the regulations it states you must have a print out because an enforcement officer hasn’t got the equipment to read your card. HINT Don’t waste too much time looking because you won’t find it anywhere.

The regulations say you must be able to provide records for the current day and the last 28 day if stopped. This is either your card or your charts or a combination of both and the only printouts you would be required to produce would be those used when your card was damaged. lost or stolen or you were correcting something. By doing this you will have complied 100% with teh requirements of the regulations and if the officer cannot read your card due to lack of equipment then that is his problem and not yours.

28

try this.

From 1st May last year (2006) ALL drivers (whether driving
analogue or digital tachograph fitted vehicles) must be able
to produce, on request at the roadside, all their driver records
for the current week and any records completed during the
previous 15 days. Furthermore, if the driver has been issued
with a driver smart card it MUST be able to be produced as well.
So if a driver has been issued with a driver card, even if its not
being used, it must be kept with the driver at all times.

the point here is that as you are driveing a non digtal vehicle
you can not show to the officer a record of your driveing from the
card as you can not do a print out,over here in germany the police
use either a print out from your vehicle or you have to have a written
record when driveing a normal lorry, this has been mentioned before
as the belgiums were fineing drivers for non complience, with the law,

29

brit pete:
try this.

From 1st May last year (2006) ALL drivers (whether driving
analogue or digital tachograph fitted vehicles) must be able
to produce, on request at the roadside, all their driver records
for the current week and any records completed during the
previous 15 days. Furthermore, if the driver has been issued
with a driver smart card it MUST be able to be produced as well.
So if a driver has been issued with a driver card, even if its not
being used, it must be kept with the driver at all times.

ok thats the quoted bit!

brit pete:
the point here is that as you are driveing a non digtal vehicle
you can not show to the officer a record of your driveing from the
card as you can not do a print out,over here in germany the police
use either a print out from your vehicle or you have to have a written
record when driveing a normal lorry, this has been mentioned before
as the belgiums were fineing drivers for non complience, with the law,

Now this is your bit !! i can just tell. All you need do is produce your card. If people want to pay fines for nothing Pete just let them. Just you don’t go paying any.
Just as a matter of interest if you had never used your digi card but you carried it how would you print out to show you had never used one?

30

TRY telling that to those who have all ready paid and
also if you belive that they will just let you go without
paying,sorry not a chance in belgium, SORRY if this
seems to be long winded however mixed driveing
and not haveing the ability to show your record of
driveing-working time is am offence,over here,

31

brit pete:
TRY telling that to those who have all ready paid and
also if you belive that they will just let you go without
paying,sorry not a chance in belgium, SORRY if this
seems to be long winded however mixed driveing
and not haveing the ability to show your record of
driveing-working time is am offence,over here,

Sadly Pete, next year we are getting on the spot fines. Its not long winded at all, if anyone reading gleans anything from it and saves themselves some bother then all the banter between us is well worth it.

32

brit pete:
try this.

OK

brit pete:
From 1st May last year (2006) ALL drivers (whether driving
analogue or digital tachograph fitted vehicles) must be able
to produce, on request at the roadside, all their driver records
for the current week and any records completed during the
previous 15 days. Furthermore, if the driver has been issued
with a driver smart card it MUST be able to be produced as well.
So if a driver has been issued with a driver card, even if its not
being used, it must be kept with the driver at all times.

Apart from that being out of date now where exactly does it say you must have printouts? It doesn’t, it says ALL drivers (whether driving analogue or digital tachograph fitted vehicles) must be able to produce, on request at the roadside, all their driver records for the current week and any records completed during the previous 15 days No mention of printouts and your records can be either your drivers card - which will have at least 28 days records on it, your charts or a combination of both with the occasional print out when it has been required to make a manual entry.

brit pete:
the point here is that as you are driveing a non digtal vehicle
you can not show to the officer a record of your driveing from the card

You show him your card, which has all your details on it and is all that is required of you by law.

brit pete:
over here in germany the police use either a print out from your vehicle

As they may also do over here

brit pete:
or you have to have a written record when driveing a normal lorry,

The only written record you require when driving a non digi vehicle is the tacho chart, you don’t have to be able to provide them with a print out of your drivers card, it is up to them to read your card.

brit pete:
this has been mentioned before

Mentioning something which is incorrect more than once doesn’t make it correct.

brit pete:
as the belgiums were fineing drivers for non complience, with the law,

No, they can’t fine you for breaking a law which doesn’t exist so it seems the Belgians have been attempting to fine drivers for breaking a non existent law.

Think about your argument for a minute Pete and you will see it is flawed. I drive a digi vehicle and have done for the last 71 shifts. I don’t take a daily print out as there is no legal requirement for me to do so. Now if the driver who is using my truck tonight doesn’t get back in time for the start of my shift in the morning, because of traffic hold ups, break down or he has crashed it, and I am given a replacement vehicle which has an analogue tacho you are saying I can’t do my run to Krefeld because I have no print outs for the Belgian or German police? Rubbish, I cannot be legal one day and non legal the next because I am unexpectedly driving a truck without a digi tacho.

The regulations require you to produce records when requested by an enforcement officer and by presenting him with your driver’s card, whether you are in a digi equipped vehicle or not, you have met that requirement and that applies across the EU.

33

brit pete:
TRY telling that to those who have all ready paid

If some people are stupid enough to pay a fine for a non existent offence then they really need to read up on the rules or it could work out expensive. Just because some people have mistakenly paid a fine doesn’t actually make the ‘offence’ they were fined for a real offence.

brit pete:
also if you belive that they will just let you go without paying,sorry not a chance in belgium,

Every chance Pete. Twice I have not paid a fine for a non existent offence in Belgium because I argued the point and in the end they conceded they were wrong. Once over the you must not have your key in the tacho head ■■■■■■■■ they tried on a while back and once when they tried to fine me for not having the tacho clock set to the correct time. It was, as it was set to UK time, but they said I had to pay a fine because it should be on Belgian time, which again is complete ■■■■■■■■.

brit pete:
SORRY if this seems to be long winded however mixed driveing and not haveing the ability to show your record of driveing-working time is am offence,over here,

If you can’t produce your digi card that would indeed be an offence but it is not an offence in Belgium, Germany or anywhere else in the EU if you cannot produce a printout when driving a non digi vehicle. The tacho regulations are EU wide and nowhere do they say you must take a daily print out. If it was a requirement to produce a printout when driving an analogue equipped vehicle it would have to be written in the regulations that a daily print out was a legal requirement, and it isn’t…

34

NIEL, all i can say is that this is how we operate
where i work and that we have no problems ,
the Belgium and Austrian police have been
fineing drivers for non compliance when ““divers””
have done mixed driveing and could not show
what was on their driverscard,

35

brit pete:
NIEL, all i can say is that this is how we operate
where i work and that we have no problems ,
the Belgium and Austrian police have been
fineing drivers for non compliance when ““divers””
have done mixed driveing and could not show
what was on their driverscard,

Again Pete, just because some drivers have paid a fine for a non existent offence that doesn’t suddenly make the offence real. You can tell us this as many times as you like but it won’t change that fact. They only way they could be fined for not showing their didgi driving would be if they could not produce their card.

You still haven’t come up with a link to the part of the regulations which states a daily print out must be taken and if it was a requirement to show a printout when stopped driving an analogue equipped vehicle it would have to state a daily printout was necessary. It doesn’t, so that fact alone kills this theory.

36

i am trying to find the spot when found i will post the link,

37

brit pete:
i am trying to find the spot when found i will post the link,

We better not hold our breath then as you won’t find it anywhere in the regulations so the link won’t be forth coming. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

38

brit pete:
i am trying to find the spot when found i will post the link,

Anyway ,if i don’t chat to you before have a nice summer holiday Pete !!

39

Mike-C:

brit pete:
i am trying to find the spot when found i will post the link,

Anyway ,if i don’t chat to you before have a nice summer holiday Pete !!

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

40

The Belgian police stopped one guy and took him to the police station and wouldn’t let him go until he had paid the fine for this non-existent crime. Now, while I agree that you can’t find it in the statute books and it shouldn’t be the case, I can’t quite remember where it says that if someone breaks into your truck and hitches a ride over the channel you are the guilty party, but we know that is the case.

C & E have been breaking UK law with the tobacco and booze quotas and have been told to stop by the government and still carried on. The problem is that some people in authority seem to be above the law.

It’s a small price to pay for a hassle free life to have a daily print out for your digi days if you are driving an analogue motor and going through Belgium.

I agree with you, it is their job to supply reading kit for the patrol cars, but know they don’t and just don’t need any extra hassle.