I was under the impression that we could choose whether we averaged our 48 hours per week over 17 or 26 weeks. The govt website says the 26 week option is only available to trainee doctors. Is this correct or have I missed something? Would I qualify if I did a bit of CPR on passers-by?
Why does it matter?
Euro:
I was under the impression that we could choose whether we averaged our 48 hours per week over 17 or 26 weeks. The govt website says the 26 week option is only available to trainee doctors. Is this correct or have I missed something? Would I qualify if I did a bit of CPR on passers-by?
The 17 week reference period can be extended to 26 weeks with a collective agreement or workforce agreement.
Working time - The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
(4) The reference period may be extended in relation to particular mobile workers or groups of mobile workers for objective or technical
reasons or reasons concerning the organisation of work, by a collective agreement or a workforce agreement, by the substitution for 17
weeks of a period not exceeding 26 weeks
ROG:
Why does it matter?
It matters because a 26 week reference period can give greater flexibility to drivers and companies.
its 2 x 17 and 1 x 18 =52 btw
It matters because in sectors like mine you are really busy from March through to September and not so much during the winter months. A 17 week reference period would be a bit of a ballache.
F-reds:
It matters because in sectors like mine you are really busy from March through to September and not so much during the winter months. A 17 week reference period would be a bit of a ballache.
The 17 week one actually works out better if you’ve a busy 6 month period as even with a 26 week reference period you cannot do max hours for 26 weeks.
If you do the maximum 60hrs a week on a 26 week reference period you’ll be parked up after 20.8 weeks for the remaining 5.2 weeks. If you do the maximum 60hrs over a 17 week reference period you’ll be parked up for 3.4 weeks and then you can run max 60hrs again for another 9 weeks to cover the 6 months from March to September.
So for a busy 6 month period a 17 week reference period wins for maximum hours and minimum down time…
tachograph:
ROG:
Why does it matter?It matters because a 26 week reference period can give greater flexibility to drivers and companies.
Sorry, I meant … in the realistic world - what does it matter?
Interesting. Not seen it laid out like that before. I wonder if the old TM has seen that 
ROG:
tachograph:
ROG:
Why does it matter?It matters because a 26 week reference period can give greater flexibility to drivers and companies.
Sorry, I meant … in the realistic world - what does it matter?
In the real world companies feel obliged to comply with the law, that’s why it matters.
Personally I don’t give a [zb] about the law, but then I don’t run a large company.
- who gets punished for breaching 48 hrs per week average over a reference period , is that a driver or employer and what are the punishments?
- if you stay with one employer for the full reference period and change jobs exactly when one reference period ends and another starts, that all is clear to me. What happens when you are on 26 weeks reference period and you change jobs a few weeks after a new reference period started and you maxed your hours during those few weeks?
hkloss1:
- who gets punished for breaching 48 hrs per week average over a reference period , is that a driver or employer and what are the punishments?
There is nothing on the sanctions list for breaches of RTD so if the 48 average is breached then nothing happens - well, nothing has happened yet in all the years it has been going …
that is why I said - being realistic
ROG:
hkloss1:
- who gets punished for breaching 48 hrs per week average over a reference period , is that a driver or employer and what are the punishments?
There is nothing on the sanctions list for breaches of RTD so if the 48 average is breached then nothing happens - well, nothing has happened yet in all the years it has been going …
that is why I said - being realistic
at the moment
What makes anyone think it will change?
To the best of my knowledge (and please do feel free to correct me) I don’t know of anyone who has ever been busted under the WTD. Personally I think it is all a load of ball ■■■■■ as the regular drivers hours regulations are in place to make sure the driver has their breaks and don’t become a danger to others on the road. I know of lots of drivers where the nature of their week dictates a typical 55 to 60 hour week anyway.
To me the greater danger will always come from drivers that have varying shift start times during a week and the subsequent disruption to their sleep patterns. 
ROG:
What makes anyone think it will change?
Anything’s possible Rog…
It’s just a piece in the accident investigations arsenal of things they can use…
I know what your saying though…and CM said exactly the same thing in 2012
commercialmotor.com/latest-n … e-from-may
Owner-drivers must adhere to the Working Time Directive (WTD) from May after escaping inclusion for seven years. The WTD restricts working time to an average 48-hour week and insists that records are kept for two years.
The government has been forced to act after the European Commission began infringement proceedings against 13 member states, including the UK and Ireland. Penalties include unlimited fines.
Amendments to the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005 come into force in Great Britain on 11 May. Northern Ireland regulations will be amended at the same time.
“We are working with the industry to ensure these changes are implemented in the least burdensome way possible,” says roads minister Mike Penning. He adds he is “extremely disappointed” that the EC withdrew its opposition to including owner-drivers.
The Department for Transport says Vosa will adopt a light touch to enforcement for the first six months, advising rather than prosecuting offenders. No one has yet been prosecuted under the original 2005 regulations, suggesting that this approach is the norm.
The Road Haulage Association hopes Vosa will take a pragmatic approach. “There are more pressing enforcement issues, such as tachograph fiddling and diesel laundering,” says Jack Simple, RHA director of policy.
When the regulations were introduced in 2005, owner-drivers were given a derogation until March 2009 before coming into scope. The EC then opposed inclusion as being impractical to police. It wanted to focus on the false self employed who are not free to work for another employer. The battle was lost in June 2010 when the European Parliament rejected the EC’s position.
Keir Fitch, deputy head of the office of EC transport commissioner Siim Kallas, recently told CM that the argument may return. “We have no choice but to enforce the law. However, if member states find it does not work, we could go back to parliament with a new proposal.”
I’m pretty sure both drivers and companies have been prosecuted for none compliance of the RT(WT)R, but only as support for prosecutions for tachograph offences.
tachograph:
I’m pretty sure both drivers and companies have been prosecuted for none compliance of the RT(WT)R, but only as support for prosecutions for tachograph offences.
one reason to keep the right side of it really
nick2008:
tachograph:
I’m pretty sure both drivers and companies have been prosecuted for none compliance of the RT(WT)R, but only as support for prosecutions for tachograph offences.one reason to keep the right side of it really
+1
I think we drivers are well aware of how easy it is to get involved in an accident on today’s congested roads, and guess what happens when police and VOSA gets involved in investigating the accident?
Yes, they will go through all data on your digicard, trying to find where you have broken the WTD , and they will especially be interested if you have been getting enough rest.
I’ve spend a lot of money and time getting my licence, don’t want to lose it in a silly way.
Who’s actually responsible for monitoring compliance with 48 hrs average per week over a reference period, is this a driver or an employer, providing the driver is being employed, full time by only one company?
What are the fines that could be imposed for breaching this limit?