Hi all you knowledgeable people
Quick question what is the score regarding your weekly average not adding up to 48 hrs .
I.e were do you stand legally and were do the company stand ?.
Thanks in advance
ricky61:
Quick question what is the score regarding your weekly average not adding up to 48 hrs .I.e were do you stand legally and were do the company stand ?.
It is an offence to average more than 48 hours working time per week over the reference period but it’s a WTD regulation so it’s unlikely that you or your company are going to get into trouble for not complying with the rule.
Remember that it’s 48 hours working time not 48 hours at work, POA and breaks do not count as working time so can be used to keep the average down.
Having said that, if you work for a cowboy company, and I would suggest that any company that picks and chooses which laws they choose to comply with probably is a cowboy company, you’re company is probably more likely than most to get a knock on the door from the DVSA doing a company audit.
company is probably more likely than most to get a knock on the door from the DVSA doing a company audit.
Has that ever happened in regards to the WTD 
company is probably more likely than most to get a knock on the door from the DVSA doing a company audit.
Has that ever happened in regards to the WTD
ricky61:
Hi all you knowledgeable peopleQuick question what is the score regarding your weekly average not adding up to 48 hrs .
I.e were do you stand legally and were do the company stand ?.
Thanks in advance
Where you stand legally is you cannot work if your average is above that. Once you’ve worked 816hrs in a current reference period that’s it until the next one starts. Where the company stands legally is they’re in breach of the working time directive if they either make or allow you to work over 816hrs in a 17 week reference period. In both cases you cannot use paid holidays to bring the hours down as a week on holiday is counted as a 48hr week to prevent employers using holidays to get around it.
ROG:
company is probably more likely than most to get a knock on the door from the DVSA doing a company audit.
Has that ever happened in regards to the WTD
I like the way you’ve edited the quote so it can be read out of context 
ROG:
tachograph:
Having said that, if you work for a cowboy company, and I would suggest that any company that picks and chooses which laws they choose to comply with probably is a cowboy company, you’re company is probably more likely than most to get a knock on the door from the DVSA doing a company audit.Has that ever happened in regards to the WTD
Have cowboy companies ever been visited and checked by the DVSA, yes loads of times I believe.
What I meant is - have those that have been visited ever been done for WTD breaches
Never heard of it happening, would be interesting if anyone could reference a case of prosecution due to non compliance of WTD rules.
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WTD is a brilliant bit of law. Everyone worries about it, not just drivers. No one has responsibility to enforce it (some dabble but not responsible as such and as far as I know, no one has been prosecuted.
Yet things like mobile phones (other offences available), lots ignore or breach it, many have responsibility for enforcement and loads have been prosecuted.
Laughable reall.
Acorn:
WTD is a brilliant bit of law. Everyone worries about it, not just drivers. No one has responsibility to enforce it
(some dabble but not responsible as such and as far as I know, no one has been prosecuted.
Health and Safety Executive and VOSA enforce it for us. HSE for night working limits and health assessment requirements for night workers, VOSA for everything else.
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?
Yes - but your tachograph records will go with you, and the “new” agency/client will immediately see exactly the same hours worked as the old one did…
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ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?
Well if you’re working for any type of agencies then as above your working for the cowboys there is no getting away from that some would say they are even below that
You have the flip flops working all hours don’t care about rules then you have the agencies bringing the rate down and skimming of the top
No wonder the job is no good anymore but there is plenty out there who will fill them jobs
Why because they are unfortunate in life and never had a break so just take whats going
Roymondo:
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?Yes - but your tachograph records will go with you, and the “new” agency/client will immediately see exactly the same hours worked as the old one did…
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So if they hire me they’d be braking the law/WTD?
ETS:
Roymondo:
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?Yes - but your tachograph records will go with you, and the “new” agency/client will immediately see exactly the same hours worked as the old one did…
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So if they hire me they’d be braking the law/WTD?
It is your responsibility to declare any other work done for any other employers, this is why most agencies have started writing in to their contracts that you can’t work for anyone else while working for them, as drivers tend to not declare other work, therefore agencies have no way of knowing what you’ve done and how close you are to your limits
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Roymondo:
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?Yes - but your tachograph records will go with you, and the “new” agency/client will immediately see exactly the same hours worked as the old one did…
That is of course true but I wonder where the driver would stand if the second company has different reference periods to the first company.
Presumably if the driver isn’t exceeding the 48 hour week in the second companies reference period he/she could legally continue working 
tachograph:
Roymondo:
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?Yes - but your tachograph records will go with you, and the “new” agency/client will immediately see exactly the same hours worked as the old one did…
That is of course true but I wonder where the driver would stand if the second company has different reference periods to the first company.
Presumably if the driver isn’t exceeding the 48 hour week in the second companies reference period he/she could legally continue working
The reference period can be up to 52 weeks by collective agreement, but that just means you’d have to dial down your hours even more aggressively at the end.
Once you reach 2,496 hours of work (48hrs * 52 weeks), you’d be completely off the road for the next week, and then you’d either have to start complying with the 48-hour limit on an ongoing weekly basis (and you’d never be able to return to doing 60-hour weeks whilst you keep that pattern up), or you’d have to dial down to far less than 48 hours a week to let the average recover.
An operator using such a pattern would also have to have systems in place to monitor the situation or smooth out the wages paid. If employees are worked to the max and are then sent off work completely, if they aren’t being paid for the time off, then it isn’t generally reasonable to suppose that they will not seek to work for another employer by the normal pressure to gain income (especially for a man accustomed to receiving the income from 60 hours a week of work).
We have a 26 week ref period,to take into account we’re quiet in summer,and flat out in winter.
ETS:
So if I’m on agency and am about to go over the 48 hrs/week and client pulls the reigns I can go to another client/agency, rite?
Wrong. It is that total of hours regardless of how many employers you have. You are supposed to inform each employer of the number of hours you’ve done with another employer and this is your responsibility to do.
So if they hire me they’d be braking the law/WTD?
Yes and so are you by not informing them of your hours you’ve worked elsewhere. If you did this and got caught they’d have a get out of jail free card because you’d not informed them of the work you previously had done. You on the other hand would be well in the crap.
tachograph:
That is of course true but I wonder where the driver would stand if the second company has different reference periods to the first company.Presumably if the driver isn’t exceeding the 48 hour week in the second companies reference period he/she could legally continue working
No because they’re still exceeding the 48hr week for the first company because the hours you work at the second company are still counted in the current reference period for the first company. If you hit the limit for the first company 4 weeks before the end of their reference period and go work somewhere else and do 50hrs a week for the four weeks there, those 200hrs still count for company 1 as well so you’d be 200hrs over.