Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.
Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
switchlogic:
I love how you make it sound like drivers are crashing all over the place because they worked over 11 hours. Like I said before we’re not all as feeble as you old chap.
The issue isn’t one of ‘driving’ 11 hours during an ‘overall’ day of 12 hours.It’s one of total zb idiots who seem to be on record as saying that they’ve driven during an ‘overall’ ‘day’ of more than 24 hours 
then using that ‘experience’ to make the case for doing the same thing during a 15 hour ‘overall’ day.The fact that it’s the experience of those idiots,that seems to be the type of reference point,that the idiots in the EU are using,to base the present hours regs on,says everything about the present regs.
I knew you’d jump on your high horse sooner or later. In reality I was only using my past experience in that area as a small footnote. I, like most here, have no problem with working 15 hours and think your idea would make the working day infinitely more stressful and rushed. I know we can’t all be big men like you telling the boss where to shove it but then most of us have had a decent amount of experience doing a decent variety of work unlike your good self, who seems to have had one of the most boring driving careers ever.
Also apologies if I got confused, as originally you talked of an 11 hour max working day, you changed that halfway through the topic to driving. It’s hard keeping up with your crazy changes and u turns. But then I shouldn’t really try since you can’t even keep up with your own views yourself half the time that’s why they keep changing. Keep trying though, I’m sure you’ll be able to form a coherent and consistent opinion one day. Or maybe not.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
And someone with your (lack of) experience wouldn’t be able to understand/believe that most of us can easily cope with it. Just because you can’t doesn’t me the rest of us can’t as well.
switchlogic:
I knew you’d jump on your high horse sooner or later. In reality I was only using my past experience in that area as a small footnote. I, like most here, have no problem with working 15 hours and think your idea would make the working day infinitely more stressful and rushed. I know we can’t all be big men like you telling the boss where to shove it but then most of us have had a decent amount of experience doing a decent variety of work unlike your good self, who seems to have had one of the most boring driving careers ever.Also apologies if I got confused, as originally you talked of an 11 hour max working day, you changed that halfway through the topic to driving. It’s hard keeping up with your crazy changes and u turns. But then I shouldn’t really try since you can’t even keep up with your own views yourself half the time that’s why they keep changing. Keep trying though, I’m sure you’ll be able to form a coherent and consistent opinion one day. Or maybe not.
Working day=driving/duty v overall day/spreadover.The only difference between what del said and what I said is just get rid of the differentiation between driving and duty and just make it an 11 hour working day regardless of driving time and duty and reduce the spread to 12.It seems that you’ve got about as much idea of seperating the difference as you have about the dangers and risks of what happens when your zb’d up view of the world all goes horribly zb wrong.
Oh right so you’ve gone back to an 11 hour ‘working day’ now? Only a couple of posts ago it was 11 hours driving. Are you ok? Your brain doesn’t seem to be working that well, memory loss at least I reckon. Possibly insanity.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
And someone with your (lack of) experience wouldn’t be able to understand/believe that most of us can easily cope with it. Just because you can’t doesn’t me the rest of us can’t as well.
It’s not a case of ‘can’t’ it’s a case of it being (should be considered as) an unacceptable risk in just the same way as driving at motorway speeds in a 30 mph limit would be and that applies in your case as much as anyone else.
So an 11 hour working day and a 12 hour spread? So I assume you’ve ditched the max 11 hours driving you advocated previously? As for 11 working and 12 spread, where does that hour go? A working day is a working day. You can’t just take an hour out of the day randomly even if it is a lunch break
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
And someone with your (lack of) experience wouldn’t be able to understand/believe that most of us can easily cope with it. Just because you can’t doesn’t me the rest of us can’t as well.
It’s not a case of ‘can’t’ it’s a case of it being (should be considered as) an unacceptable risk in just the same way as driving at motorway speeds in a 30 mph limit would be and that applies in your case as much as anyone else.
Should be considered as an unacceptable risk by you you mean. The rest of don’t think it is and the law is on our side. And this is the only occasion I’d take the side of the EU legislators, they are fairly clueless most of the time but look like geniuses compared to you
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
Tens of thousands of us do it regularly with ease 
I still do the mythical long distance one hit work and often choose to do a split or long relaxed shift on drive only days. Why, because it’s way better in every way. More relaxing, with plenty of breaks. Also as I’m only parking up I prefer to do it for as shorter time as possible for many reasons. Firstly boredom, secondly I only sleep 5 hours a night tops and thirdly health. It is far better to have a leisurely dinner then run another hour or 2 before parking. 
I regularly have, and still do, split shift the Cherbourg boats from Nantes to Birmingham. That’s 1/2 a shift to the boat and another 1/2 off it and I have never found it to be remotely difficult.
Don’t judge everyone else on your own inadequacies
Oh god don’t get on to European work again otherwise he’ll be telling us he can do it quicker via Paris at 65 mph
Carryfast:
just make it an 11 hour working day regardless of driving time and duty and reduce the spread to 12.
WTF are you on ■■ Yeah that’s much better eh, much safer ■■? Working 11 out of 12 hours rather than 10 out of 15 ■■
I know which one I’d choose and unsurprisingly it isn’t your crackpot idea
switchlogic:
Oh god don’t get on to European work again otherwise he’ll be telling us he can do it quicker via Paris at 65 mph
Well whatever stops him trying to tell me about the USA 
switchlogic:
Oh right so you’ve gone back to an 11 hour ‘working day’ now? Only a couple of posts ago it was 11 hours driving. Are you ok? Your brain doesn’t seem to be working that well, memory loss at least I reckon. Possibly insanity.
No it’s just that lack of understanding that seems to run through most of your answers.Which part of 11 hours ‘regardless’ of wether that’s ‘duty’ ‘or’ ‘driving’,don’t you understand.The fact is that would allow more possible driving time than either the old regs of 10 driving,11 duty or the present 9-10 driving which is the point that I was making.However considering that the limits should be viewed as max permitted hours not a target it’s obvious that the actual 11 hour figure should be viewed as irrelevant anyway.Because the idea should be to get finished ‘before’ that time is reached not when it’s reached or after.
However the really important difference which is the subject of this topic would be the 12 hour spreadover limit which you’ve obviously got a problem with.
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
just make it an 11 hour working day regardless of driving time and duty and reduce the spread to 12.WTF are you on ■■ Yeah that’s much better eh, much safer ■■? Working 11 out of 12 hours rather than 10 out of 15 ■■
I know which one I’d choose and unsurprisingly it isn’t your crackpot idea
It isn’t 10 ‘out of’ 15.It’s 10 ‘during 15’ because you can drive right up to the 15 hour spreadover limit just as I’ve said in the case of the example of driving the last 4.5 hours of a 15 hour shift.
Carryfast:
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
just make it an 11 hour working day regardless of driving time and duty and reduce the spread to 12.WTF are you on ■■ Yeah that’s much better eh, much safer ■■? Working 11 out of 12 hours rather than 10 out of 15 ■■
I know which one I’d choose and unsurprisingly it isn’t your crackpot idea
It isn’t 10 ‘out of’ 15.It’s 10 ‘during 15’ because you can drive right up to the 15 hour spreadover limit just as I’ve said in the case of the example of driving the last 4.5 hours of a 15 hour shift.
Which is still infinitely safer than smashing 11 hours of day into a 12 hour spread. If you’d ever done it, like everyone else that has and is telling you you’re wrong, you may understand. I doubt it somehow but one can only hope
If you had actually read my post about your beloved Teamsters you would see that they only sought to reduce the overall driving time and NOT the shift time. They did this after a lengthy study concluded that it was the length of time at the wheel not the length of shift that was the problem.
Are they wrong too ■■ Like everyone and every reason that disagrees with you and your ridiculous ill conceived naive ideas ■■?
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Oh right so you’ve gone back to an 11 hour ‘working day’ now? Only a couple of posts ago it was 11 hours driving. Are you ok? Your brain doesn’t seem to be working that well, memory loss at least I reckon. Possibly insanity.No it’s just that lack of understanding that seems to run through most of your answers.Which part of 11 hours ‘regardless’ of wether that’s ‘duty’ ‘or’ ‘driving’,don’t you understand.The fact is that would allow more possible driving time than either the old regs of 10 driving,11 duty or the present 9-10 driving which is the point that I was making.However considering that the limits should be viewed as max permitted hours not a target it’s obvious that the actual 11 hour figure should be viewed as irrelevant anyway.Because the idea should be to get finished ‘before’ that time is reached not when it’s reached or after.
However the really important difference which is the subject of this topic would be the 12 hour spreadover limit which you’ve obviously got a problem with.
Errrr no, the lack of understanding is at your end. A lack of understanding about transport. Don’t blame your incoherent and inconsistent posting on my ‘lack of understanding’. Your ideas change more often than the weather and you know it. So it’s no good trying to back track by saying I don’t understand.
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Maybe you’d change your mind if you actually had to drive more than a few miles in a shift.Oh that’s rather funny, Carryfast saying someone may change their mind if they had some experience of something. Great stuff. The king of experience speaks again
As I said there’s nothing in the regs to stop someone driving the last 4.5 hours of an overall 15 hour shift.Which makes a mockery of the 9-10 hour driving limit.Although not surprisingly someone with your ‘experience’ wouldn’t be able to understand/believe the risks of long hours mixed with driving.
Tens of thousands of us do it regularly with ease
I regularly have, and still do, split shift the Cherbourg boats from Nantes to Birmingham. That’s 1/2 a shift to the boat and another 1/2 off it and I have never found it to be remotely difficult.
Don’t judge everyone else on your own inadequacies
It’s not an inadequacy to go by the logic that the risks of fatigue will be less and it’s better to get all the driving done with during the course of a 12 hour overall day (spread),than it is to extend that day (spread) to 15 thereby still having to be driving over the course of a 15 hour shift than a 12 hour one.
In my experience the issue mostly comes down to that of guvnors trying to increase the working day,to compensate for time lost,to too much time spent zb’ing about not running anywhere during a shift,than anything to do with getting bored because you’ve parked up at a reasonable time since starting work for the day.
But I certainly don’t ever remember the guvnor trying to use the excuse that I’d get ‘bored’ and get too much sleep by parking up at 16.00-17.00 after starting at 04.00-05.00. 
The fact fact was,in my experience,the extra time that he wanted me to add to the day was all about the zb work he was doing and had zb all to do with me being more ‘relaxed’.It was all about extending the overall day to get the load tipped or the wagon further along the road to the next job or back to the yard to run out the following morning again for another day of doing the same zb work. 
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
billybigrig:
Carryfast:
just make it an 11 hour working day regardless of driving time and duty and reduce the spread to 12.WTF are you on ■■ Yeah that’s much better eh, much safer ■■? Working 11 out of 12 hours rather than 10 out of 15 ■■
I know which one I’d choose and unsurprisingly it isn’t your crackpot idea
It isn’t 10 ‘out of’ 15.It’s 10 ‘during 15’ because you can drive right up to the 15 hour spreadover limit just as I’ve said in the case of the example of driving the last 4.5 hours of a 15 hour shift.
Which is still infinitely safer than smashing 11 hours of day into a 12 hour spread. If you’d ever done it, like everyone else that has and is telling you you’re wrong, you may understand. I doubt it somehow but one can only hope
If you had actually read my post about your beloved Teamsters you would see that they only sought to reduce the overall driving time and NOT the shift time. They did this after a lengthy study concluded that it was the length of time at the wheel not the length of shift that was the problem.
Are they wrong too ■■ Like everyone and every reason that disagrees with you and your ridiculous ill conceived naive ideas ■■?
I think you must have missed umpteen previous posts telling you that I have ‘done it’ and had exactly the same argument with a guvnor who had similar ideas to yours except in his case it was definitely all about getting more work done by extending the day.
Parking up and calling it a day isn’t ‘smashing’ 11 hours of work into 12 at all because by doing so you’ve actually reduced the amount of work that got done that day by leaving it to carry on with tomorrow.Which is the key to the difference in my thinking to his and obviously yours.However as for the Teamsters I’ve already said the unions anywhere don’t have a clue as shown by the fact that the unions here are prepared to accept the idea of drivers driving trucks during the course of 15 hour shifts.
However if the unions don’t agree with me and believe all those 'studies, maybe they’d like to try a test in which they try one of those old fashioned 24 hour + shifts by spending 15 hours playing cards and then going out and driving a truck for just 9-10 hours over the course of a 15 hour shift. 