Carryfast:
Although I only probably did less general than you did I do know enough about it to know that there were,probably still are,certain places that wouldn’t touch local or groupage type zb work.
Few and far between and usually the worst payers
It was all distance work and all full loads which anyone who knows anything would know was one of the first type of questions which you’d ask when you went for the job.The problem is that a lot of those operators,who were lumbered with having to take what they could get,knew the score on that question when they got asked it and just said yes it’s all distance and it’s all full load stuff even though they knew that wasn’t the type of work which they specialised in at all.
Most sane operators would choose the best paying load and they were/are not one hitters. Freight doesn’t exist in multiples of 26 pallets, never has done. Many drivers would favour multiple drops to smaller premises rather than one shots to soul less warehouses spitting distance from a main roads.
In which case,just as you say,it could be a mixture of anything but in my experience it was all local/medium distance and/or part load multi drop/collection zb.Which was one of the reasons why myself and the guvnor weren’t on the best of terms to start with even before I got involved with telling him that I wasn’t prepared to have insult added to injury by adding all the extra time spent zb’ing about waiting to get loaded etc etc, which that type of work inevitably involved,to the day.
WTF
The same applied in regards to euro work and at that time it was the owner drivers who mostly cherry picked the type of work which gave them a full load out and then a full load back on runs to Italy etc.However what the zb would I know when there’s drivers out there who obviously know,or think they know,better.
How do you know this ■■ Let me tell you once again (from actual experience), you don’t and once again you are wrong. Not just drivers that know better but owners too.
You cannot simply derise and dismiss the opinions of people who actually have done the job and know the truth becasue they don’t fit in with your eutopian crackpot ideas.
Trust me it was that question which took place before asking for the rate for the job or the wage which the guvnor was offering.It’s just that the owner drivers were lucky enough not to have the issues,of guvnors trying to pass off zb work as decent work,that employed drivers did at the point of taking on the job.
Tha fact that you don’t seem to have got to understand all those issues yet seems a bit unusual considering that I’d learn’t most of that,except for that last issue of guvnors passing off zb work as decent work,even before I’d left the council.
Council worker and night trunker eh ■■ Wow you’ve been around a bit in the REAL world eh
You were peppering your earlier post with the word logic.
Logic -The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
When everyone else, with the benefit of infinitely greater knowledge and experience is telling you that you are very very wrong, LOGIC would tell you you are.
Yeah right in your world every owner driver was looking for groupage and part load zb because it paid better than full loads.
davepenn54:
Aww cmon Guys just kiss and make up It’s only an internet forum not real life None of us have ever really been lorry/truck drivers We just like making story’s up about it I’m really only 17 and still at high school.
Regards
Dave Penn;
Well I’m a 59 year old hairdresser in New York
Well I’m a frustrated ex council worker, Stobart Spotter number 70223, who likes to touch myself while watching 70’s trucking movies
In your case I wouldn’t be surprised if that described you to the zb letter.
You couldn’t be more wrong
There’s enough people on here who know me and what I’ve actually done
Ok well at least three of us have now admitted that we really haven’t got around 100yrs of experience in general haulage between us so we should now sit down quietly and listen to the ‘Oracle’ that is :-
There are quite a few of them on here some of them you actually take notice of their post’s because you know they know what they are talking about, some you take a bit of notice of but only because you are not too sure about what they are saying but are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and then there are the one’s who you just know that whatever they post is going to be total ■■■■■■■■ and you know that because we have met them before at some point in our travels around not only this Country but throughout the EU and usually these ‘Oracle’s’ we meet are in reality very limited in their own experience of this very special industry that we choose to work in and accept the way that it works and when we did things to try and change it it was only for our own personal benefit even if it was made to look like something different.
OH Carryfast if you don’t know that a groupage load pays more than a one dropper than you really are a knob head. At my first real general job we used to negotiate the the rate with the warehouse foreman when we were loading and many a time I would come away loaded with an agreed job rate for what was equivalent to about 13 tons on a 4 wheeler with 10 ton payload, and then put another 3/4/5 drops on top of that which then made the actual gross up to near max but the rate for the truck was much, much more than an artic was getting for one drop stuff, and in a week a vehicle doing multiple deliveries against one doing one hitters would always earn more, And not just for the company but the driver as well. But CF tha’s not something you would have experience of coz you aint ever done it now have yer.
I’m not sure about now but if you look at the old time threads on here lots of drivers mention multi wine or groupage collections round Europe that was the job not as you say glorified trunking between depots.
Speaking from recent experince unless working direct for the customer the only way to make money as a owner driver is stay local or multi drop.
davepenn54:
OH Carryfast if you don’t know that a groupage load pays more than a one dropper than you really are a knob head. At my first real general job we used to negotiate the the rate with the warehouse foreman when we were loading and many a time I would come away loaded with an agreed job rate for what was equivalent to about 13 tons on a 4 wheeler with 10 ton payload, and then put another 3/4/5 drops on top of that which then made the actual gross up to near max but the rate for the truck was much, much more than an artic was getting for one drop stuff, and in a week a vehicle doing multiple deliveries against one doing one hitters would always earn more, And not just for the company but the driver as well. But CF tha’s not something you would have experience of coz you aint ever done it now have yer.
Regards
Dave Penn;
I don’t give a zb what load ‘pays’ better I was actually making a sarcastic comment.So I’ll try again and maybe you might just get it the second time.
So taking all your bs to it’s logical conclusion it’s obvious there’s not many drivers who would be mad enough to to spend out all that money on getting a class 1 licence to do long distance full load work with an artic,when the guvnors mostly just want to make a few extra quid doing zb multi drop work instead. .
However the proof of the fact that I have ‘ever done it’ is the fact that I always knew the difference between zb work and decent work.However it’s only the most stupid or desperate drivers drivers that wanted that type of zb work while all the owner drivers cherry picked the full load stuff and the further it was going the better which left a lot less of that type of work for employed drivers who also had the sense to know the score between what makes a decent job and what doesn’t.The only reason as to why long distance full loads wouldn’t have paid as much in either case was because no one wanted to do other zb at any price.Only the mugs that is.Which is why the job centres and agencies have always been full of zb local/medium distance multi drop work for rigids and often artics,if they’ve got any work at all.
But ask for international/long distance,full load,work and it’s always been a case of no chance unless you’re an owner driver with the right contacts or an employed driver who gets lucky and/or who’s face fits or more likely these days an east european operator who’ll do the job cheaper than anyone else.
Although having said that I wouldn’t be surprised if your bs ideas,on what makes for a decent job,at least from a driver’s point of view,are a zb wind up.However if not who’s calling who a zb knob head now.
kr79:
I’m not sure about now but if you look at the old time threads on here lots of drivers mention multi wine or groupage collections round Europe that was the job not as you say glorified trunking between depots.
Speaking from recent experince unless working direct for the customer the only way to make money as a owner driver is stay local or multi drop.
If you really think that long distance full load work was/is a negative and local/medium distance/or even longer distance groupage/multi drop/collection type zb is a positive then you really don’t seem to understand the difference between zb work and decent work (from a driver’s perspective at least).
The fact is that the supply (of drivers and the more enlightened operators) looking for the former,is just a symptom of it’s superiority in regards to quality of work and the fact that there’s always been more of the latter type of work and that the latter (might) pay more is just a symptom of the reverse of that situation in that the supply (of drivers) and operators looking for it is a lot less although,unfortunately for drivers with my outlook,the Brit operators often seem to have been willing to trade quality of work for a bit extra on the rate.
However the situation that you describe now is no different to what has always existed in regards to the difference between the amount of zb work out there compared to the amount of decent work.It’s just that now instead of it being a case of too many Brit owner drivers and employed drivers wanting it it’s the zb east europeans instead.
Carryfast:
I always knew the difference between zb work and decent work.However it’s only the most stupid or desperate drivers drivers that wanted that type of zb work while all the owner drivers cherry picked the full load stuff and the further it was going the better which left a lot less of that type of work for employed drivers who also had the sense to know the score between what makes a decent job and what doesn’t.The only reason as to why long distance full loads wouldn’t have paid as much in either case was because no one wanted to do other zb at any price.Only the mugs that is.Which is why the job centres and agencies have always been full of zb local/medium distance multi drop work for rigids and often artics,if they’ve got any work at all.
Did you now? You may be missing the point that a lot of us, me included, enjoy multi drop loads as lot more that the boring one hitters. You seem to by trying to back down as you did clearly imply that the long one hitters were the best paid. And you also seem to say in this post that multi drop is only local medium distance. I’ve done a lot of multi drop to Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece. In the long distance transport industry things are often so last minute that it’s nice to have two or even three days of drops for a bit of predictability for a change.
Carryfast:
But ask for international/long distance,full load,work and it’s always been a case of no chance unless you’re an owner driver with the right contacts or an employed driver who gets lucky and/or who’s face fits or more likely these days an east european operator who’ll do the job cheaper than anyone else.
:
Still telling yourself that are you to justify why you never did it yourself? Even this theory has been proved as ■■■■■■■■ previously.
Now he’s off on a bigger tangent than usual. Two scenarios here cf, both from 2 different former employers of mine.
Job 1: Drive from Harlow to Colchester to load 0700, tip Middleton 1500. Rate £370
Reload asap heinz wigan for Baron wood, tip welham green next day at 1100, Rate £250.
Job 2(different firm): Load 5 jobs in yard brought in by our own vehicles. All 4 pallets a drop rated £50 a board. Leave at 4am tipped last job in Manchester by half 2. Rate £1000. Reload asap in sop at runcorn for 5 drops London, charged at £100 a drop.
So one firm earns 620 in two days and the other 1500. Would you care to guess which of my former employers drove a Mitsubishi shogun and which one had a porche gt3?
If you really think that long distance full load work was/is a negative and local/medium distance/or even longer distance groupage/multi drop/collection type zb is a positive then you really don’t seem to understand the difference between zb work and decent work (from a driver’s perspective at least).
The fact is that the supply (of drivers and the more enlightened operators) looking for the former,is just a symptom of it’s superiority in regards to quality of work and the fact that there’s always been more of the latter type of work and that the latter (might) pay more is just a symptom of the reverse of that situation in that the supply (of drivers) and operators looking for it is a lot less although,unfortunately for drivers with my outlook,the Brit operators often seem to have been willing to trade quality of work for a bit extra on the rate.
Christ man speaking as a driver who has mainly done crap local work. I have always earned decent money. I may have had to chase round all day and put up with awkward jobs. But I’ve never been out of work in the last 12 years and have built up a network
of contacts that has opened doors when looking for jobs.
Operators trading quality of work for a bit extra on the rate. People are in business to make money not say I have easy work.
As he has proven on many occasions. Geoff cannot even read a map, so he only wants to do a long distance trip with a simple job at the other end, something like a trailer swap maybe. And he wants to do it in some obsolete lorry with no brakes or suspension. He would be bollocksed if the ferry was delayed and he had to choose a different route.
Give him 3 drops in Paris or Madrid and he would need nappies.
You really haven’t got a clue about international transport, so why comment on it?
I get the feeling he came by the ironic nick name Carryfast, because he takes so long to do a job. With his attitude of it gets there when it gets there, he’d struggle to round trip 2 manchesters a week
OVLOV JAY:
Those who can, drive. Those who can’t, night trunk
Although some night trunkers could stay in the job without having to join the ‘drivers’ on days because nights ‘were killing them’.
CF, when you’ve done more than 30 miles driving, then you can comment, until then, I’d shut the hell up if I was you
Everybody is different, I came from doing nights on busses and coaches onto the HGV’s, so thought it’d be fine, it wasn’t, so I changed before I killed someone else or myself.
12 pages earlier a guy asked if he could be planned for a 15hr day, then it turns into a ■■■■■■■ contest between Luke & CF, some points made by both parties are valid, but the bottom line is 15 hour days ARE too long from both social and safety points of view. Whenever this aspect of the job is discussed on here you always get the,… it’s part of the job,… you knew when you started what it would entail,… if it doesn’t suit you shouldn’t be doing it,etc etc and so on, mostly from the guys who would work 24hrs (done that also ) if it was allowed, ok maybe they are valid points, but just because it is legal to work 15hr days it doesn’t make it safe and socially acceptable, and the fact that some of us have to work these hours to make only a living wage, not a good wage is another argument for another day. The argument that says it is the nature of the job can be answered with the fact that there is a vast need for improvement. Luke seems to be saying that the present limits are better than the hours he worked for the Dutch and Irish which I would agree, as I have done similar crazy things in my time, but surely that should not be used as a criteria to justify a lesser of the two evils. Please don’t come back with the old you are in the wrong job routine( yawn ) I’ll save you the bother as I realised this around 1990 when the first signs of this job turning to crap came about…Here’s to another 12 pages
robroy:
12 pages earlier a guy asked if he could be planned for a 15hr day, then it turns into a ■■■■■■■ contest between Luke & CF, some points made by both parties are valid, but the bottom line is 15 hour days ARE too long from both social and safety points of view. Whenever this aspect of the job is discussed on here you always get the,… it’s part of the job,… you knew when you started what it would entail,… if it doesn’t suit you shouldn’t be doing it,etc etc and so on, mostly from the guys who would work 24hrs (done that also ) if it was allowed, ok maybe they are valid points, but just because it is legal to work 15hr days it doesn’t make it safe and socially acceptable, and the fact that some of us have to work these hours to make only a living wage, not a good wage is another argument for another day. The argument that says it is the nature of the job can be answered with the fact that there is a vast need for improvement. Luke seems to be saying that the present limits are better than the hours he worked for the Dutch and Irish which I would agree, as I have done similar crazy things in my time, but surely that should not be used as a criteria to justify a lesser of the two evils. Please don’t come back with the old you are in the wrong job routine( yawn ) I’ll save you the bother as I realised this around 1990 when the first signs of this job turning to crap came about…Here’s to another 12 pages
It isn’t legal to “work” 15 hour days, the only thing that 15 does is leave you 9 hours to take a rest period. The day starts at 6am, by 9 pm you are in the pub or restaurant. Office workers in a big city do the same thing, the difference is they do not get paid to drive or commute 3 hours each way… The driver still has to take breaks and we all get a lot of POA. The office or shop worker gets 15 or 20 minutes with a sandwich at the desk or in the storeroom.
If you are lucky enough to have a one dropper to Spain or Italy, you will probably be starting at 6am and sat in the bar by 4pm
It has been mentioned many many times that the drivers hours regulations are flexible, both for the driver and the operator to be somewhere that they need or want to be, whether that is for the weekend or just for that night for grab a granny.
OVLOV JAY:
Those who can, drive. Those who can’t, night trunk
Although some night trunkers could stay in the job without having to join the ‘drivers’ on days because nights ‘were killing them’.
CF, when you’ve done more than 30 miles driving, then you can comment, until then, I’d shut the hell up if I was you
Which part of Heathrow-Leeds-Heathrow or Heathrow-Bristol-Heathrow-Bristol-Heathrow or Heathrow-Killington Lake-Heathrow in a shift as some examples don’t you zb understand.
OVLOV JAY:
I get the feeling he came by the ironic nick name Carryfast, because he takes so long to do a job. With his attitude of it gets there when it gets there, he’d struggle to round trip 2 manchesters a week
As above.All you would have seen was tail lights for about 15 minutes before they dissappeared into the distance.
It’s only an internet forum not real life 
We just like making story’s up about it 
But CF tha’s not something you would have experience of coz you aint ever done it now have yer. 