waddy640:
If the rules, as published by VOSA, were clear about what can and cant be done in any given period, then there would be far less confusion. Rest periods are defined as what must be taken within a 24 hour period, but driving is less definitive.
Article 4 (k) ‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period; Article 6 1. The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours. However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
What’s not clear or definitive about that? The problem is most people only read Article 6 and skip all of Article 4, which is very important as it defines all the terms used in the regulations. Article 6 on it’s own could be said to not be completely clear but when you read it with Article 4 and find the definition of daily driving time it couldn’t be clearer.
waddy640:
It is like most things done by the government.
This wasn’t the Government, it was the EU.
I was referring to the guide published by VOSA as I stated, I am well aware of who made the law.
waddy640:
If the rules, as published by VOSA, were clear about what can and cant be done in any given period, then there would be far less confusion. Rest periods are defined as what must be taken within a 24 hour period, but driving is less definitive.
Article 4 (k) ‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period; Article 6 1. The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours. However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.
What’s not clear or definitive about that? The problem is most people only read Article 6 and skip all of Article 4, which is very important as it defines all the terms used in the regulations. Article 6 on it’s own could be said to not be completely clear but when you read it with Article 4 and find the definition of daily driving time it couldn’t be clearer.
waddy640:
It is like most things done by the government.
This wasn’t the Government, it was the EU.
I was referring to the guide published by VOSA as I stated, I am well aware of who made the law.
The VOSA Guide is even clearer on the subject as you don’t have to read separate Articles in the official regulations, it’s all on less than half a page.
can anybody tell me where it is stated that you can only work 15 hours a day 3 times a week.what is wrong with…mon 0500-2000 15 hours worked 11 off …tue 0700-2200 15 hours worked 11 off…wed 0900-2400 15 hours worked 9 off…thur 0900-2400 15 hours worked 9 off…fri 0900-2400 15 hours worked…it says in the front of the rha road transport directive drivers daily record book under maximum working day/duty time…none specified,but daily rest requirements effectively limits the length of the working day.ps how do i set my text out so that it is`nt in continuous lines…please help
commonrail:
can anybody tell me where it is stated that you can only work 15 hours a day 3 times a week.
It doesn’t state that anywhere because the regulations are not built around duty time, they are all about rest periods required.
commonrail:
what is wrong with mon 0500-2000 15 hours worked 11 off…tue 0700-2200 15 hours worked 11 off…wed 0900-2400 15 hours worked 9 off…thur 0900-2400 15 hours worked 9 off…fri 0900-2400 15 hours worked…
On Monday, Tuesday and Friday you have used a reduced rest regardless of the fact you took 11 hours off, so with Wednesday and Thursday you have reduced 5 times between weekly rest periods and you can only do that three times. The daily rest must be completed within the 24-hour period which begins when you resume work after a rest period. On Monday you started work at 05:00 therefore your rest must be completed by 05:00 Tuesday and by that time you had only taken 9 hours rest. This also applies on the last working day before your weekly rest because you extend a daily rest into a weekly rest so the rest within 24-hour period still applies and if you have used your three allowed reductions you will only be able to work a maximum of 13 hours that day.
commonrail:
it says in the front of the rha road transport directive drivers daily record book under maximum working day/duty time…none specified,but daily rest requirements effectively limits the length of the working day.
Yep, daily rest requirements do limit the duty time. Must have 11 hour rest so 24 hours - 11 hours rest = 13 hours duty. Still have an available reduced rest then 24 hours - 9 hour rest period = 15 hours duty. On your Monday, Tuesday and Friday there are 26 hours in your day, 15 hours duty + 11 hours rest = 26-hour period. It doesn’t matter how many hours rest you actually take after a shift because only those hours which fall within the 24 hour period count as your daily rest period.
commonrail:
ps how do i set my text out so that it is`nt in continuous lines…please help
commonrail:
at last, i understand i think still can`t get the spaces inbetween sentences though tanx
Just hit return when you’ve finished the sentence.
Like this.
Or like this for a paragraph.
Back to the thread though, people have to change their attitudes to it. Don’t think how much time have I got, think how much rest you need, and by when.
One of our drivers is waiting for a court date now, he got stopped by the met on a Saturday morning in charlton, 8 offences, 4 with no further action. One was for 9 hours off on 13 duty, but he had already done them all. He thought he was ok, as he’d had 11 off after 15 hours
OVLOV JAY:
One of our drivers is waiting for a court date now, he got stopped by the met on a Saturday morning in charlton, 8 offences, 4 with no further action. One was for 9 hours off on 13 duty, but he had already done them all. He thought he was ok, as he’d had 11 off after 15 hours
I’m always slightly confused by people like this. They are obviously aware there is some kind of limit imposed by daily rest requirements otherwise why stop at 13 or a5 hours. I mean, if he thought having 11 hours off made it legal why did he stop at 15 hours and not do say 17 or 19 hours?
OVLOV JAY:
One of our drivers is waiting for a court date now, he got stopped by the met on a Saturday morning in charlton, 8 offences, 4 with no further action. One was for 9 hours off on 13 duty, but he had already done them all. He thought he was ok, as he’d had 11 off after 15 hours
I’m always slightly confused by people like this. They are obviously aware there is some kind of limit imposed by daily rest requirements otherwise why stop at 13 or a5 hours. I mean, if he thought having 11 hours off made it legal why did he stop at 15 hours and not do say 17 or 19 hours?
The trouble is, not many bosses know, or can explain the law to the drivers very well, our current boss thought he was legal. Every manager I’ve had has always said “how many fifteens have you done” but only one has ever said “how are you for 9’s and 11’s” And the sad thing is, although he did those offences under the companys misguided instruction, they’ve said the usual, “we didn’t ask you to break the law and we won’t be paying your fines”
Obviously the rules are not as easily understood by everyone. The number of posts on here requesting advice on different aspects of them seems to prove that.
waddy640:
Obviously the rules are not as easily understood by everyone. The number of posts on here requesting advice on different aspects of them seems to prove that.
Mostly asked by people who haven’t read the rules, or not all the relevant parts, and make the mistake of listening to advice given by Transport Managers, DCPC Trainers and RDC Lawyers.
waddy640:
Obviously the rules are not as easily understood by everyone. The number of posts on here requesting advice on different aspects of them seems to prove that.
Mostly asked by people who haven’t read the rules, or not all the relevant parts, and make the mistake of listening to advice given by Transport Managers, DCPC Trainers and RDC Lawyers.
It must be so frustrating living in a world of inferior beings.
waddy640:
Obviously the rules are not as easily understood by everyone. The number of posts on here requesting advice on different aspects of them seems to prove that.
Mostly asked by people who haven’t read the rules, or not all the relevant parts, and make the mistake of listening to advice given by Transport Managers, DCPC Trainers and RDC Lawyers.
It must be so frustrating living in a world of inferior beings.
Don’t talk daft. The majority of the tacho questions I get by PM on here, and a lot of the questions asked on the forum, begin with - ‘Our transport manager told us/me’, ‘My mate told me’ or Our driver trainer told me/us’ and they have never read the regulations or the VOSA guide to know if it is BS or not. They often haven’t read them because they have been told or assume it’s complicated.
Although not in the same league as Neil. I too find the regulations straightforward. They are certainly much simpler than what we used to have to follow.
The regulations are Here and the GV 262 VOSA guide is Here
My simple way of working the 15 hour thing is to start with 24 and subtract your duty time, ie. Start at 5am go home at 7pm. 14 hours in total.
24 - 14 = 10 = one reduced rest regardless of what time you start the following day
bandelero:
Wheelnut has posted a formula that is spot on and oh so simple to understand. Stick to that and you can’t go wrong.
Neil posted a complete set of simplified WTD and Tachograph rules a couple of years ago, yet people still get it wrong
Was that the complete tacho rules as it applies to most drivers in six sentences thing I did? I had to remove it as someone kept reposting it as if it was gospel rather than the very simple guide it was intended to be.
ady1:
i do it without split rests
fri-15 hrs
sat-15 hrs
sun -15 hrs
mon-15 hrs
tues-15 hrs
wed-15 hrs
there not all dead 15 hrs but the eq of 15 hrs i.e 14 hrs,13.5 hrs, fri,sat,sun are classed as a different week to mon,tues,wed so im doing 3x15 in week one and 3x15 in week two, but obviously when i come back in fri/sat ive no 15 hrs left untill midnight sunday ,unless i do splits.
the bloke who checks our time books is having kittens with me ,recons what im doing is illegal ,but he cant explain,doesnt understand why im not getting any infringements .
i think this is legal but only every 2 week as you say after your days off you’ve used your reduced rest for that week. any confusion caused is a fault in the regulations because we have to work between weekly rest periods for driving hours and the week according to the work time directive, these aren’t the same but for most people that start monday this isn’t a problem but if you start wedsnesday a little juggling is necessary
Mr B:
… as you say after your days off you’ve used your reduced rest for that week.
After his days off he has his full compliment of reduced rest periods available again, regardless of what day of the week it is.
It’s simple really, you can reduced three times between weekly rest periods so as soon as you complete a weekly rest period you have three reductions available to use before you begin your next weekly rest.
The law is actually quite simple and the amount of times I’ve had to explain it to other drivers is shocking. All I’ve done is read the VOSA guide from cover to cover, and last week since my studies have given me an intrest in legal documents I read the actual EU regulations. Actually very intresting.
