Franglais:
Start 00hr00. Driving and other work until 14hr00. Start daily break. Rest for 4hrs. 30mins to board ferry. Resume rest. 5hrs on ferry. 30mins debarque. Resume rest for another 2hrs. Legal, I think.
Sorry but no that’s not legal.
In your example you’ve worked 14 hours before starting the daily rest period, therefore it’s a reduced daily rest period because you cannot fit a 14 hour shift and an 11 hour rest period into the 24 hour period.
You can only interrupt a regular 11 hour daily rest period, you cannot legally interrupt a reduced daily rest period to board or disembark a ferry.
Franglais:
The “Friday Night Ferry Rule” still exists, and also allows for a 3rd ten (and a bit) hour driving shift of course. And spread-overs are still extendable if a meal receipt is shown of course.
Franglais:
Start 00hr00. Driving and other work until 14hr00. Start daily break. Rest for 4hrs. 30mins to board ferry. Resume rest. 5hrs on ferry. 30mins debarque. Resume rest for another 2hrs. Legal, I think.
Sorry but no that’s not legal.
In your example you’ve worked 14 hours before starting the daily rest period, therefore it’s a reduced daily rest period because you cannot fit a 14 hour shift and an 11 hour rest period into the 24 hour period.
You can only interrupt a regular 11 hour daily rest period, you cannot legally interrupt a reduced daily rest period to board or disembark a ferry.
Franglais:
The “Friday Night Ferry Rule” still exists, and also allows for a 3rd ten (and a bit) hour driving shift of course. And spread-overs are still extendable if a meal receipt is shown of course.
Nice one
I see what you mean. I stand corrected. (Unless it`s a Friday of course).
This thread is evidence of why we need an effective Drivers CPC & also a lesson never to trust what gaffers & planners say re: keeping legal. You’ve got to take responsibility for getting fully clued up yourself & back your own understanding of the law. It’s called being professional.
Whether the OP’s gaffer was sinister or just plain uninformed in advising him to go over 15, he would deny all knowledge of advising him to crack on should it come to a prosecution.
rob22888:
This thread is evidence of why we need an effective Drivers CPC & also a lesson never to trust what gaffers & planners say re: keeping legal. You’ve got to take responsibility for getting fully clued up yourself & back your own understanding of the law. It’s called being professional.
Whether the OP’s gaffer was sinister or just plain uninformed in advising him to go over 15, he would deny all knowledge of advising him to crack on should it come to a prosecution.
Evidence that people half asleep when doing the Theory test for the licence should perhaps wake up, put two and two together and realise those questions about drivers hours might be a clue that they need to look at them before driving an wagon.
PaulNowak:
So you can’t do a 27 hour day with a 15 hour drive on your last day? Planners should be made to sit cpc
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+1. Totally agree and I think this should be a requirement in the same way a transport manager needs the cpc the planners should have one they have to do, even if it’s just the standard module for drivers. The people planning you need to understand drivers hours and how serious it is to go over them.
We had a guy the other week did 18hrs duty and 12hrs drive!! His excuse was he worked on the bins and didnt know tacho rules.
Btw this was his route from Bellshill to Warrington. M74-M6-A66-A1-A1M-M62 then the same on the way back.18 ■■■■■■■ hours no wonder going that way!
How someone like that gets passed an accessor then questions really need to be asked. Lot of drivers are thick as ■■■■ or cause more damage than the IRA. Decent drivers are becoming a rare thing and they’re employers should really value them.
Going off the basic information given by the OP I would say most answers given are completely correct - However …
I had a similar scenario put to me during a Driver CPC course where a driver said he did a 19 hour day, had 9 off and cracked on. After much discussion about how much the driver had broken the rules by, he then decided to mention the 9 hours waiting around stuck on the ferry outside the port. So, although the driver ‘thought’ he had a very long shift, he hadn’t realised he had started a new shift courtesy of the 9 hours rest on the ferry. Because his boss paid him for the ferry time (which was longer than usual due to some kind of delay) he considered it was the same shift he had started in France the day before.
When I read the OPs posts alarm bells started ringing because he talked of long delays (I think) as well as a ferry - so maybe, just maybe this might be what the boss was trying to get across, because of the time the driver had spent waiting he had actually achieved a reduced daily rest, therefore he could carry on.
I am only guessing - but it might answer how a TM could be so misguided over basic stuff.
Even after all these years on the job, I’m still nowhere near an expert on this stuff, but surely if you take a split rest, you can reduce the longer of the breaks to eight hours, all within twenty four of course.
That being the case, you must surely, technically at least be able to be" on duty" for sixteen hrs in any twenty four.
Also, if you were to max out two ferry movements in the one shift, yould be up to eighteen hrs duty.
Maybe the meths and Brass are finally getting the better of me! No doubt I’ll soon find out.
Old John:
Even after all these years on the job, I’m still nowhere near an expert on this stuff, but surely if you take a split rest, you can reduce the longer of the breaks to eight hours, all within twenty four of course.
That being the case, you must surely, technically at least be able to be" on duty" for sixteen hrs in any twenty four.
Also, if you were to max out two ferry movements in the one shift, yould be up to eighteen hrs duty.
Maybe the meths and Brass are finally getting the better of me! No doubt I’ll soon find out.
Old John:
Even after all these years on the job, I’m still nowhere near an expert on this stuff, but surely if you take a split rest, you can reduce the longer of the breaks to eight hours, all within twenty four of course.
That being the case, you must surely, technically at least be able to be" on duty" for sixteen hrs in any twenty four.
8 + 0 daily rest = 16 hours left in 24.How much and what even happened to the shorter period of daily rest in that case.
happyone:
I did question the tm I rang him when I was in the french docks and told him that I had six mins left before my 15 hours were up, he told me that because I I had long breaks during the day whilst waiting for the ferry and when I was on the ferry, and the French police was holding the traffic up that I was okay .
Hold on. Hold on a mo!
Are we talking about a split rest period for a ferry movement here?
If so a daily rest period can be interrupted (by up to one hour total) for a ferry movement. And compensated for by adding a couple of hours in.
How about “happyone” please say as exactly as you can remember your start time, driving times, time of arriving on port(s) ferry times etc etc. If we have all the facts we may be able to help you out. Then again we may not, but most of here will try and help.
I spoke to my tm today , and so we down loaded my digi card and the computer only showed one infringement of a 30 min break . I started at 4am and finished at 10.30pm I had 2.5 hours wait to get on the ferry then 90 min on the crossing I had 30 min break then 30 min wait to get on ferry and 90 min on the crossing
happyone:
I did question the tm I rang him when I was in the french docks and told him that I had six mins left before my 15 hours were up, he told me that because I I had long breaks during the day whilst waiting for the ferry and when I was on the ferry, and the French police was holding the traffic up that I was okay .
Hold on. Hold on a mo!
Are we talking about a split rest period for a ferry movement here?
If so a daily rest period can be interrupted (by up to one hour total) for a ferry movement. And compensated for by adding a couple of hours in.
How about “happyone” please say as exactly as you can remember your start time, driving times, time of arriving on port(s) ferry times etc etc. If we have all the facts we may be able to help you out. Then again we may not, but most of here will try and help.
I spoke to my tm today , and so we down loaded my digi card and the computer only showed one infringement of a 30 min break . I started at 4am and finished at 10.30pm I had 2.5 hours wait to get on the ferry then 90 min on the crossing I had 30 min break then 30 min wait to get on ferry and 90 min on the crossing
as I didn’t work sat and Sunday this made the compensation up so my tm said.
happyone:
I did question the tm I rang him when I was in the french docks and told him that I had six mins left before my 15 hours were up, he told me that because I I had long breaks during the day whilst waiting for the ferry and when I was on the ferry, and the French police was holding the traffic up that I was okay .
Hold on. Hold on a mo!
Are we talking about a split rest period for a ferry movement here?
If so a daily rest period can be interrupted (by up to one hour total) for a ferry movement. And compensated for by adding a couple of hours in.
How about “happyone” please say as exactly as you can remember your start time, driving times, time of arriving on port(s) ferry times etc etc. If we have all the facts we may be able to help you out. Then again we may not, but most of here will try and help.
I spoke to my tm today , and so we down loaded my digi card and the computer only showed one infringement of a 30 min break . I started at 4am and finished at 10.30pm I had 2.5 hours wait to get on the ferry then 90 min on the crossing I had 30 min break then 30 min wait to get on ferry and 90 min on the crossing
as I didn’t work sat and Sunday this made the compensation up so my tm said.
But the only way you wouldn’t get infringements is if you had a daily rest period and ferry mode.
Then started your working day/shift when you got of the boat at the other side.
dozy:
Think he was recovered , 15 hr shift + 3 hrs driving van back , that’s fine as you don’t need a digi card too drive a van
Dozy - There is nothing ‘fine’ about that at all. The journey in the van MUST be recorded and cannot be recorded as rest or break - so no matter what, that makes no daily rest. Failure to record the van journey equals falsification of records = court time.
happyone:
I spoke to my tm today , and so we down loaded my digi card and the computer only showed one infringement of a 30 min break . I started at 4am and finished at 10.30pm I had 2.5 hours wait to get on the ferry then 90 min on the crossing I had 30 min break then 30 min wait to get on ferry and 90 min on the crossing
I’m sorry but if you started at 04:00 and finished at 22:30 that is a total of 18.5 hours and as a single manned operation cannot ordinarily be legal. With the timings you give us the ferry is irrelevant.
If you start a shift at 04:00 then the very latest you could possibly finish (as a single manned driver) is 19:00. That would leave 9 hours within the current 24 hour period for your rest.
If you intended to take advantage of the ability to interrupt a daily rest for embarking/disembarking a ferry then that makes it even worse as you would require a minimum of 11 hours of rest - not just 9 hours. (A reduced rest cannot be interrupted)
Whatever your TM says about compensation is basically a load of twaddle. Compensation refers to weekly rest - not daily rest.
With the basic information you have given you have only had a daily rest of 5.5 hours - which isn’t a daily rest at all. As I have said, this could result in a prosecution. Being honest, between you and your TM and the apparent lack of a basic understanding of the rules, I would suspect if DVSA were to get their hands on your records they would have a field day resulting in court time for you and a Public Inquiry for the TM and Operator.
However - you are only giving very limited information. There are many possibilities that could actually make what you did legal but your computer and analysis software would still pick it up. There could have been some kind of emergency and a high value load etc etc etc but you haven’t mentioned any of that. I had a driver do a 19h 37m day and it was perfectly OK because of the circumstances surrounding it. DVSA asked lots of questions and then let it go. We justified the event.
So - either you aren’t telling us everything, or you and your TM need to seek advice.
