how do u work 15 hrs if the most u can drive is 10 hrs a day are yew incl the 2 45 mins break and what makes up the rest stupid question maybe but not used to tacho yet
ROG:
KeepHerLitV8:
Ah so does that mean POA and 45 minute breaks don’t count as working hours? I thought it was from start of shift to end of shift on the tacho??First bit correct
Only driving and other work count as working time for RTD
Ah Perfect… Sounds good to me!!
oneillmartin:
how do u work 15 hrs if the most u can drive is 10 hrs a day are yew incl the 2 45 mins break and what makes up the rest stupid question maybe but not used to tacho yet
Time spent loading, waiting to load or tip etc etc
15 hours DUTY TIME from when the card is put in to when it is taken out at the end of the shift.
It can incorporate all modes of the tacho (POA, Other Work and Rest) as well as Driving (Wheels Turning).
Multi drop is often maxed out on Duty Time before Driving Time.
ROG:
15 hour shifts are not really the issue - the amount of rest between shifts is especially for those people than need 7 or 8 hours sleep in order to be fully ok to drive safelyThere is of course the max 3 reduced daily rests between weekly rests that will restrict the amount of 15 shifts unless split daily rests are being used
Any driver can refuse to take limited rest if they feel it will compromise safety but in these economic times bosses will just get rid of you and get another unemployed driver from the thousands that are on the dole
That’s the sort of anecdotal clap trap that makes no sense you show me someone that’s been sacked for not regularly doing 15 hour shifts and I wouldn’t have to try hard to find people that keep their job by saying no.
oneillmartin:
how do u work 15 hrs if the most u can drive is 10 hrs a day are yew incl the 2 45 mins break and what makes up the rest stupid question maybe but not used to tacho yet
Handballing flour takes time my friend.
KeepHerLitV8:
Pansie Division:
KeepHerLitV8:
Just wondering can anyone clarify the position on total weekly working hours…My understanding is you can work a maximum average of 48 hour working week over a reference period of 17 weeks and maximum in any given week of 60 hours. Is that correct?
Also if so what would be the implications if stopped of exceeding the 60 hours working week??
Yes that is correct but not including breaks (I think) and you have to compensate for a 60hr week
Ah so does that mean POA and 45 minute breaks don’t count as working hours? I thought it was from start of shift to end of shift on the tacho??
Working hours should be the time you walk out of your front door to the time you walk back in it again. This might mean 80-90 hours per week EVERY week for some. In my mind, this is illegal, but if you’re only paid for 48 hours (because you’re considered on POA or “break” for the difference between 48 and 90 hours) then you’ll spend near on your whole life “at work” for a crappy 48 hours paid, because you’re only considered “on duty” for those 48 hours, which is to “get around the law” your employer will say. Never mind you’ll find yourself at work more hours than ever before for stagnant or falling pay since the “new system” was originally implemented/enforced.
Obviously, if you have a decent employer who’ll have you “at work” for 48 hours, but you only spend say, 30 on duty driving and other work and still getting paid a good hourly rate for the 48, then you’ve got it made more than pizza hut professes to, and you should stick with that job through thick and thin! 
I used to work at RM when the weekly hourage was 43, then cut to 41.5, then 36.25 but with “new” unpaid meal breaks of 90 minutes a day, if you worked over 12 hour shifts like I did.
Then the overtime rates were cut from double time at weekends, weekday OT rates were cut from 1.65 for Scheduled Attendance to 1.15 for “standard” overtime.
NDA (night duty allowance) of time and a third was scrapped years ago, and Saturday premium was also scrapped.
The effective hourly rate was apparently “massively increased” of course, but this actually meant getting less - MUCH less of those highly paid hours under the new system.
RM pay with overtime pays the bills and puts food on the table quite nicely. RM basic pay, even though increased, does not. I can get a lot more hourage paid if I want on Agency, and what’s more I can choose when and where I want to do those 45 hours, spread across a mere 3 days a week if I want. There is life after a full-time job!
By the time I left RM, my average 48 hour week with built-in overtime had been reduced to practically nil overtime, with daft shift patterns that had you working start times all over the place, shift lengths varying between 6 hours on one day and 14 hours on another, and a day off in the middle of the week that’s not really any good for anyone. My 22 years seniority only got me an improved VR package - and even that door of opportunity was only fleetingly open for most people that wanted it…
When the Voluntary Redundancy chair was pulled out for me unexpectedly in the autumn of 2010, I worked out that the package as it was - based on my OLD much better T&C shift patterns, allowances, and SA would mean that the amount I’d get if I went right away would never be equalled again - so I took it.
I liked the job - don’t get me wrong, but I didn’t like what the T&Cs had become. I’m not expecting the tide to be turned on that front within the short term either, so I can’t see myself taking a full time job there again until there are some major changes in the “race to the bottom” society that we are “all in together” rather than any notion of “big society” which needs ■■■■ sight bigger wages for us ordinary folk if it’s ever to solve this country’s economic woes. 
Trukkertone:
when we had log books, was the total daily limit not 12½ hrs ■■
1984 
Who brought in those great changes winseer? Was it the unions?
Hi,
E-petition is now ready to be signed please follow this link,
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48547
and let others know.
Thankyou 
Signed 
I think you could have worded that question differently! I’m a tramper and the last thing I want while I’m away is more hours off. If I’m kipping in a tin can I want to be maxing my earning potential and there’s nothing more boring than sat in some service area for 12 hours! Now if you’d said for shift drivers then well said, they are the ones who suffer in my opinion from 15 hour shifts! I could happily do 15’s everyday while I’m away, but that’s just me others will be different.
Fileep:
I think you could have worded that question differently! I’m a tramper and the last thing I want while I’m away is more hours off. If I’m kipping in a tin can I want to be maxing my earning potential and there’s nothing more boring than sat in some service area for 12 hours! Now if you’d said for shift drivers then well said, they are the ones who suffer in my opinion from 15 hour shifts! I could happily do 15’s everyday while I’m away, but that’s just me others will be different.
Totaly agree with you. no short break at base, fine, but I’m not cutting my throat.
I have read the petition, but I wont sign it.
I didnt realise that eating and washing are not part of my rest. frankly I find a decent shower followed a good plate of home cooked grub very relaxing, but now I know better 
middleman:
ROG:
15 hour shifts are not really the issue - the amount of rest between shifts is especially for those people than need 7 or 8 hours sleep in order to be fully ok to drive safelyThere is of course the max 3 reduced daily rests between weekly rests that will restrict the amount of 15 shifts unless split daily rests are being used
Any driver can refuse to take limited rest if they feel it will compromise safety but in these economic times bosses will just get rid of you and get another unemployed driver from the thousands that are on the dole
That’s the sort of anecdotal clap trap that makes no sense you show me someone that’s been sacked for not regularly doing 15 hour shifts and I wouldn’t have to try hard to find people that keep their job by saying no.
Which do you put first - safety or job ?
Not taking a reduced break at base won’t work, all people will do is park the vehicle at a location 5 minutes down the road, lay by or services. I believe this is what used to happen in the seventies, I seem to remember a Panorama/World in Action type t.v programme about it.
Work Shy:
Not taking a reduced break at base won’t work, all people will do is park the vehicle at a location 5 minutes down the road, lay by or services. I believe this is what used to happen in the seventies, I seem to remember a Panorama/World in Action type t.v programme about it.
You’re probably right, however, there’s technology out there that can overcome this! Put something in the digi card machine that pinpoints your exact location! Job done.
Fileep:
I think you could have worded that question differently! I’m a tramper and the last thing I want while I’m away is more hours off. If I’m kipping in a tin can I want to be maxing my earning potential and there’s nothing more boring than sat in some service area for 12 hours! Now if you’d said for shift drivers then well said, they are the ones who suffer in my opinion from 15 hour shifts! I could happily do 15’s everyday while I’m away, but that’s just me others will be different.
Hi,
I understand where you are coming from and my intention is not to mess it up for Trampers, this is only the start, i’m sure should anything develop from this petition , the issue will be discussed in greater detail and then we can ask for seperate rules for trampers and shift drivers, but we need to make a stand together if we are ever going to be taken seriously and negotiations/talking is the only way forward, thanks for your view
“…but as pointed out, if you are unsafe to drive and refuse, there is a dole queue a mile long waiting to step in.” (jbaz)
there is a long dole queue but they haven’t got C+E or CPC. There are a lot of “drivers wanted” adverts appearing. 15 hours is a maximum, not the norm which should be planned. I know its easy to say it but we should tell planners the length of time for which we are willing to work.
Good luck with the petition. I have signed it
R
eddie snax:
Fileep:
I think you could have worded that question differently! I’m a tramper and the last thing I want while I’m away is more hours off. If I’m kipping in a tin can I want to be maxing my earning potential and there’s nothing more boring than sat in some service area for 12 hours! Now if you’d said for shift drivers then well said, they are the ones who suffer in my opinion from 15 hour shifts! I could happily do 15’s everyday while I’m away, but that’s just me others will be different.Totaly agree with you. no short break at base, fine, but I’m not cutting my throat.
I have read the petition, but I wont sign it.
I didnt realise that eating and washing are not part of my rest. frankly I find a decent shower followed a good plate of home cooked grub very relaxing, but now I know better
Then why sleep just eat, wash and go to work if thats all you need, how about family time etc, how many other industries do you know where employees sleep at work or are we the only mugs!, do transport managers, planners, office clerks sleep at work, the answer is no!, but we are treated like something on the bottom of their shoes ! 
ROG:
middleman:
ROG:
15 hour shifts are not really the issue - the amount of rest between shifts is especially for those people than need 7 or 8 hours sleep in order to be fully ok to drive safelyThere is of course the max 3 reduced daily rests between weekly rests that will restrict the amount of 15 shifts unless split daily rests are being used
Any driver can refuse to take limited rest if they feel it will compromise safety but in these economic times bosses will just get rid of you and get another unemployed driver from the thousands that are on the dole
That’s the sort of anecdotal clap trap that makes no sense you show me someone that’s been sacked for not regularly doing 15 hour shifts and I wouldn’t have to try hard to find people that keep their job by saying no.
Which do you put first - safety or job ?
Job, the odd serious injury or death is just par for the course in this industry