Coffeeholic:
delboytwo wrote:according to the EU a 24 hour period is a period between rests
That’s not correct Del. A 24 hour period, as far as the tacho rules go, begins when you resume work after a rest period and ends when you end the next rest period or reach 24 hours from starting work, whichever comes first.
i thought you mite doubted what i sad
Only because you were totally wrong.
delboytwo:
The “daily working period” within the meaning of Article 15(2) of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 of 20 December 1985 on recording equipment in road transport, comprises the driving time, all other periods of work, the period of availability, breaks in work and, where the driver divides his daily rest into two or three separate periods, such a period, provided that it does not exceed one hour. The “daily working period” commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period, or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, following the rest period of at least eight hours’ duration. It ends at the beginning of a daily rest period or, if the daily rest is divided into separate periods, at the beginning of a rest period extending over a minimum of eight consecutive hours.
The term “day”, within the meaning of Council Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 of 20 December 1985 on the harmonization of certain social legislation relating to road transport, and of Regulation No 3821/85, must be understood as equivalent to the term “period of 24 hours”, which refers to any period of that duration which commences at the time when the driver activates the tachograph following a weekly or daily rest period.
Yes, that’s exactly what I said.
delboytwo:
that why i said it and that why the term (24 hour period) is now in the regs 561/2006
But that’s not what you said.
delboytwo:
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo:
that would mead a 24 hour period could be only 1 hour or even less.
It couldn’t, it will always contain a rest period and the minimum rest period is 9 hours, so it can never be less than 9 and a bit hours.
Mike-C:
Stop !!! Go back and look. We know what you meant, but its different from what you said. A 24 hour period is NOT a period between rests !! Thats all Del, i think you explained it wrong.
so your saying that its not between rests
No it isn’t. If it was between rests it would begin at the end of one rest period and end at the start of the next. But it doesn’t, it begins at the end of one rest period and ends either at the end of the next or 24 hours later, whichever comes first. Your duty time or shift is between rest periods because that begins at the end of one rest and ends at the start of another but the 24 hour period is longer than your duty time or shift, it has to contain a rest period so doesn’t fall between the rest periods the same way.
delboytwo:
lets look at it following the rest so you put you chart in and activate it and the next the the 24 hour period start is when you put the chart in and activate it, is that not between rests
No, it’s not
delboytwo:
so going on that if you put you chart in at 00.00 and worked for 1 hour and then put it on rest for 9 hours and the put an other chart in following that rest that would make the 24 hour period was infact 10 hours and then a new 24 hour period as started
That bit is correct, but is totally different to what you say above
please could you explain it to me so that i understand it as like you said i have it wrong and right in bits please explain your thinking on the 24hour period and the 6x24 hour periods please so i have it once and for all
as i have told you before sometime its difficult for me to put it in words and explain my thinking so help would be appreciated
please could you explain it to me so that i understand it as like you said i have it wrong and right in bits please explain your thinking on the 24hour period
Well I just did that in my last post but I will have another go
The 24 hour period begins when you resume work after a rest period (rest period 1) and ends either 24 hours later or when you resume work after the next rest period (rest period 2).
The 24 hour period will always contain rest period 2 so cannot be between rest period 1 and rest period 2.
Example
06:00 - Begin work after a rest period
17:00 - Finish work and begin a rest period. Duty time/shift length = 11 hours
02:00 - Begin work after a 9 hour rest period which ends one 24 hour period and begins a new 24 hour period.
The shift was 11 hours and was between rest periods, end of rest 1 at 06:00 and start of rest 2 at 17:00
The 24 hour period was 20 hours and was not between rest periods because it started at the end of rest 1 at 06:00 but did not finish until the end of rest 2 at 02:00.
delboytwo:
and the 6x24 hour periods
I’m not touching the 6x24 hour period thing, if I did that it would mean telling ROG the bit he constantly misses and I don’t want to do that.
i now know where i am going wrong me saying between rest, i think that between rests means the below and that what mite be confusing the issue for you lot
this is what i mean saying between rests that start at 00.00 work for 10 hours rest 9 hours start at 7 pm in which i saying between rest and that what i mean
so would this way be best to say
a 24 hour period starts at the end of a daily or weekly rest
delboytwo:
i now know where i am going wrong me saying between rest, i think that between rests means the below and that what mite be confusing the issue for you lot
err, it’s not us lot who are confused, we all seem to grasp teh meaning of the word ‘between’
delboytwo:
this is what i mean saying between rests that start at 00.00 work for 10 hours rest 9 hours start at 7 pm in which i saying between rest and that what i mean
The 10 hours work is between rests but the 19 hours which make up the 24 hour period isn’t. It is between the end of a rest period and the start of a shift.
delboytwo:
so would this way be best to say
a 24 hour period starts at the end of a daily or weekly rest
Well that’s near enough what it says in the regulations so it would be a good start.
Coffeeholic:
err, it’s not us lot who are confused, we all seem to grasp teh meaning of the word ‘between’
delboytwo wrote:this is what i mean saying between rests that start at 00.00 work for 10 hours rest 9 hours start at 7 pm in which i saying between rest and that what i mean
so what’s the word I’m looking for then
i think i got the in and the within bit so how about a little help please so i don’t confuse the post i post saying between is there a word for what i trying to say
as I’m not go with literacy so help is and always be appreciated
Coffeeholic:
err, it’s not us lot who are confused, we all seem to grasp the meaning of the word ‘between’
delboytwo wrote:this is what i mean saying between rests that start at 00.00 work for 10 hours rest 9 hours start at 7 pm in which i saying between rest and that what i mean
so what’s the word I’m looking for then
That’s maybe where you are going wrong, there isn’t one word to describe it, you need several words to be accurate.
ROG:
as long as that digicard is removed for a weekly rest at or before 0600 the following sunday, the driver is legal.
Coffeeholic:
That’s ■■■■■■■■…
I cocked that up - I meant to say that as long as the weekly rest is started and thought about pulling out the card as a way to highlight that point but as you saw - I [ZB]ed it up !!
ROG:
ONE reg for DAILY rest
ONE reg for WEEKLY rest
I’m sorry Rog but that not true the both come under the 561/2006 regs and therefore are the same
OK, seperate rules in the regulation - is that any better ?
I’m sorry Rog but your still wrong there both come under
Article 8.6
In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours. However, the reduction
shall be compensated by an equivalent period of rest
taken en bloc before the end of the third week following
the week in question.
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
Coffeeholic:
I’m not touching the 6x24 hour period thing, if I did that it would mean telling ROG the bit he constantly misses and I don’t want to do that.
This bit ?
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.
Coffeeholic:
I’m not touching the 6x24 hour period thing, if I did that it would mean telling ROG the bit he constantly misses and I don’t want to do that.
This bit ?
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six 24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest period.
The only way to know if they are complied with is to ask the question - Have I complied with THIS regulation? - if yes, then move onto the next regulation and ask the same question again
I sort of agree with that, or rather the principle of it.
I think by far the biggest problem is that people mix and match information from too many sources. Sources that sometimes have differing objectives.
When/If a driver is to be actually prosecuted, they will be so by virtue of transgressing legislation/law/directive. A person/entity can’t and won’t be prosecuted for ignoring a “guide” - of whatever nature or form. By ignoring a “guidance” one may well commit an offence, but I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted for “contravening a booklet”
I still think the current set of rules/laws/directives are by far the most simple and clearly written set we’ve ever had. It’s (pretty much) all there. In plain English.
Personally, I will always refer to the actual legislation rather than a guide/explanation booklet. To me, most “guidebooks” are not that far removed from MMTM and . . . . . . . .
dambuster:
When/If a driver is to be actually prosecuted, they will be so by virtue of transgressing legislation/law/directive. A person/entity can’t and won’t be prosecuted for ignoring a “guide” - of whatever nature or form. By ignoring a “guidance” one may well commit an offence, but I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted for “contravening a booklet”
Hi dambuster,
Agreed mate, but I think you’ll find that there’s not quite as much to worry about as you seem to think…
An EU directive is binding upon the governments of the EU member states, not us mere mortals.
An EU directive can be viewed as an order from the EU to the member states to have a piece of legislation in place covering x, y and z and to get it in place by a certain date. That legislation is then enacted by each government separately, so there may be some differences as to the wording/exemptions/requirements in each individual country once the directive has been complied with.
Many people confuse the words ‘EU Regulation’ with ‘EU Directive’ but they are completely different animals.
