My employer, requires the drivers to make precise manual entries for when you for example have to go on some course or other. Recently, I was on a course for 4 days. Upon my return, I had to make a manual entry for start times then other work then breaks and daily rest for the 4 days and the preceding weekend. I know how to do it, but it’s a nightmare. Am I right in saying that this kind of situation is what the ? mode is for?
I have asked if I can use the ? mode but have been told ‘no’. Why would that be the case? I guess it’s to make sue that you don’t break the rules for the WTD? One fellow employee is a yard man but on occasion is required to drive to pick up a vehicle from the garage etc. He has to do the same. It’s a nightmare for him and since he’s not very good at this type of stuff, has made a few errors gaining himself infringements. Can someone explain this more fully to me?
Open to correction,
The law says you must keep a record of your work and rest.
The law says you may do that by writing/noting it with pen on a tacho roll or tacho disc.
OR
By making manual entries in a a tacho later on
"When a tachograph is not available to record data in real time, the only permitted methods for drivers to make a manual entry are to:
make a manual entry on an analogue tachograph record sheet
make a manual entry on digital printout paper
retrospectively use the manual input facility on a digital tachograph when the card is next inserted
Analogue records must show the start and end times for each period of activity, as well as the driver’s name. Digital printout paper records must include the driver’s name, driver card number or driving licence number.
The regulations do not permit any other forms of manual records, such as diaries or timesheets."
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules
If your employer says it must be done by manual entry with card in a tacho head, that is their rule, not the law.
Using the ? would not negate your legal responsibility to make manual entries for work done on none driving work days.
Legally you could write the manual entries on printouts or charts and then use the ? on the tachograph, personally I think it’s a bit daft to input manual entries into the tachograph for none driving work days but then I don’t pay your wages so…
Rather than asking your employer if you can just use the ? for none driving work days, which by itself would be illegal, ask them if you can write manual entries on printout paper then use the ? on the tachograph.
Edit: Just to add that your employer is right to insist on manual entry records for none driving work days it’s just the way they want you to do the manual entries that’s questionable.
I guess that your employer wants it all on the digi-card so they can simply download the card for analysis.
It would mean extra time and trouble for them, if you kept records on charts or rolls.
As you say to note it all manually later on, is an opportunity for error. One slip, and the error is recorded. No way to correct it.
You do need to record, duty, breaks and daily rest, not just ?
I guess practice makes perfect but your mate who only does it occasionally will not get proficient at it. Tachos are designed as efficient keyboards, after all.
Whoops! Should read tachos are not designed as efficient keyboards
Incidentally I was told yesterday by one of our driver trainers some changes are afoot regarding ? Mark use. In that it is being made obsolete and will not be able to be used anymore soon. He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
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simcor:
He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
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I’ve just completed my week of Terberg piloting and late afternoon I popped my card into a parked up unit and did my weeks worth of manual entries. I left the card in the truck for the rest of the afternoon (keeping the keys firmly in my pocket). I popped the card into the machine when I finished and when I pressed “ok to analyse “ it popped up with an infringement. I lost interest at that point, ejected the card and went home to consume alcohol.
the maoster:
simcor:
He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
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I’ve just completed my week of Terberg piloting and late afternoon I popped my card into a parked up unit and did my weeks worth of manual entries. I left the card in the truck for the rest of the afternoon (keeping the keys firmly in my pocket). I popped the card into the machine when I finished and when I pressed “ok to analyse “ it popped up with an infringement. I lost interest at that point, ejected the card and went home to consume alcohol.
Funnily enough I did 2 days of shunting this week, popped my card in the truck yesterday to go on the road. Did my manual entries and got “immediate rest required” message on the truck. Tried it in another unit with the same message, downloaded both old and new card on tacho ■■■■ and no mistakes or infringements that tachomaster can see.
So no idea why the truck was saying I needed an immediate rest period. Daily rest on the card was fine. The only thing I can think is the tacho couldn’t see a weekly rest period on the new card.
Anyway cracked on seeing as everything seemed to check out ok, and just cancelled the tacho message each time I started the truck.
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simcor:
the maoster:
simcor:
He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
I’ve just completed my week of Terberg piloting and late afternoon I popped my card into a parked up unit and did my weeks worth of manual entries. I left the card in the truck for the rest of the afternoon (keeping the keys firmly in my pocket). I popped the card into the machine when I finished and when I pressed “ok to analyse “ it popped up with an infringement. I lost interest at that point, ejected the card and went home to consume alcohol.
Funnily enough I did 2 days of shunting this week, popped my card in the truck yesterday to go on the road. Did my manual entries and got “immediate rest required” message on the truck. Tried it in another unit with the same message, downloaded both old and new card on tacho [zb] and no mistakes or infringements that tachomaster can see.
So no idea why the truck was saying I needed an immediate rest period. Daily rest on the card was fine. The only thing I can think is the tacho couldn’t see a weekly rest period on the new card.
Anyway cracked on seeing as everything seemed to check out ok, and just cancelled the tacho message each time I started the truck.
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Actually on doing some digging on tacho master at home I did screw up Tuesdays entry somehow. Yet no Infringement for daily rest for some odd reason.
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[/quote]
Actually on doing some digging on tacho master at home I did screw up Tuesdays entrie somehow. Yet no Infringement for daily rest for some odd reason.
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[/quote]
Tacho master?
Fragonard:
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Actually on doing some digging on tacho master at home I did screw up Tuesdays entrie somehow. Yet no Infringement for daily rest for some odd reason.
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[/quote]
Tacho master?
[/quote]
I use tachomaster (Digi card downalod software) at home for analysing my card myself like the company uses at work.
That is what my manual entry should have been, that’s after adding the correct manual entries on tachomaster. But you can only make amendments to the online records if there is no actual card data downloaded as I understand it. It does not make changes to the data stored on the card and I will need a manual entry on tacho paper and keep it with me for 28 days along with my old card also for 28 days. 
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Cue the comments you can’t work for 6 hours without a break as that is an Infringement. Lol
You can work up to 6 hours before your break starts and it won’t be an infringement for WTD. 6 hours and 1 minute will be an infringement.
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simcor:
Incidentally I was told yesterday by one of our driver trainers some changes are afoot regarding ? Mark use. In that it is being made obsolete and will not be able to be used anymore soon. He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
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Our shunters already record on their tacho card, no need for head units in tugs, they just grab a unit for 5 mins at some point during their day (usually got a couple VOR doing nothing) and do yesterdays manual entries.
If you do that every day its becomes second nature. A whole lot quicker, easier and less chance of making a mistake than doing a week or so at a time.
Fuzrat:
simcor:
Incidentally I was told yesterday by one of our driver trainers some changes are afoot regarding ? Mark use. In that it is being made obsolete and will not be able to be used anymore soon. He also said that even shunters will have to record their activities on a tacho soon, to which I replied if that is going to be the case then the simple answer is to install tachos into the tugs.
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Our shunters already record on their tacho card, no need for head units in tugs, they just grab a unit for 5 mins at some point during their day (usually got a couple VOR doing nothing) and do yesterdays manual entries.
If you do that every day its becomes second nature. A whole lot quicker, easier and less chance of making a mistake than doing a week or so at a time.
Yep I have done that myself a few times but forget at times with being busy and then put off doing it.
But like I say if they want it recording properly even with shunters, then you may as well fit tugs with a tacho and just use you card each day in the tug.
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My point being most of our shunters hardly ever drive on the road yet are going to be required to keep manual entries for every day they have worked even though being out of scope for the whole week or weeks, months or even years.
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simcor:
My point being most of our shunters hardly ever drive on the road yet are going to be required to keep manual entries for every day they have worked even though being out of scope for the whole week or weeks, months or even years.
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The actual driving in the yard may well be out of scope, but you are actually doing ‘‘other work’’ which by law now needs to be recorded. Companies might as well fit tachos to shunters now.
shullbit:
simcor:
My point being most of our shunters hardly ever drive on the road yet are going to be required to keep manual entries for every day they have worked even though being out of scope for the whole week or weeks, months or even years.
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The actual driving in the yard may well be out of scope, but you are actually doing ‘‘other work’’ which by law now needs to be recorded. Companies might as well fit tachos to shunters now.
This is part of the problem though. If you are out of scope of driving regulations you have never needed to record your working activities on a tacho or manually. Unless you are in scope for some of that week, then you have to account for all work that week.
Now they have changed it retrospectively that even for someone who does not need to drive ins cope possibly ever now needs to record all their working activity on a tacho or paper records. It all just seems like a pointless exercise for someone who rarely ever drives on the road like most shunters.
It is a usual case of making it much harder than it needs to be.
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