I made the mistake of taking on a job on a self employed basis a year and a bit ago. Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
Today I quit and now he’s saying I have to give him a months notice (of course I don’t), but the problem is I get paid monthly. We have no contract. I don’t have to give him any notice, but seeing as there is no contract, can he withhold my pay?
He owes me 11 days pay, but like I said there is no contract. I have tacho records, e-ticket records and bank records that I have been working for him.
Anyone been in this situation before? If he can leally withhold my pay then I may as well cut my losses and give him no notice. But if I work a months notice and he doesn’t pay me then I’m even more stitched up.
First of this is not legal advice, just my thoughts.
As you’re self-employed you don’t need to give notice, nor he you. He can’t withhold pay as since you’re self-employed you don’t get wages, you get your invoices paid; you should have been invoicing him every month, if not he will have been self-billing but you should have got a copy, there must be something to keep his books straight unless he has a cash business. Now if he doesn’t pay you just remember that even though you have been, or have intended to declare these earnings to HMRC if this “job” fails the IR35 test and you seem certain that it does, it is your employer that HMRC will be interested in. By not collecting PAYE and NI from somebody who he should have been employing he’s been breaking the law. So whilst being careful to keep calm and don’t say anything that could be considered blackmail you might suggest that you’ll just run your agreement past your local tax office, they’re in yellow pages, and see what their take is. You will be paid soon enough. If not, see a solicitor.
A bit like the reply above. I was told that if my employer didn’t pay my wages then his O license would be at risk. I don’t know if that’s true or if it applies in your situation, but might it be worth looking into and using or threatening?
I made the mistake of taking on a job on a self employed basis a year and a bit ago. Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
You should have negotiated a hourly rate that took that into account, making it at least 30% more than what the PAYE hourly rate was. That’s on you just like the grief you’re now having because you didn’t do things properly and get a written contract between you laying out things like payment terms and terminating the agreement, or invoice him as I’m guessing you didn’t invoice him for what you were owed. One thing I will say is if you weren’t registered for self assessment and didn’t tell HMRC what you were earning and therefore not paid tax on it you may want to consider what you do as the tax bill plus fines plus interest on late payments could be quite a fair few quid.
acd1202:
if this “job” fails the IR35 test and you seem certain that it does
They’re not a Ltd Company, IR35 does not apply to sole traders.
No contract they can take up to 28 days to pay without any penalties and with no invoice and no contract good luck proving how much you’re owed.
You do have a contract of employment, if you are employed, but it isn`t written down.
“As soon as someone accepts a job offer they have a contract with their employer. An employment contract does not have to be written down.” gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions
If you have been working for him, you are an employee.
So
If he hasnt been paying tax for you on PAYE, he is at fault. If he hasnt been paying NI, he is at fault.
If he hasn`t been paying holidays, he is at fault
You say it is just over a year youve been there? Did you fill in an Income Tax return? With no lies? If so he is in much more trouble than you. Or did you fraudulently fill one out? Youre both in the wrong.
What to do? Are you a poker player?
How much you want the authorities to look at him, and whether or not you want them looking at you too? What paper trail is there?
Proper invoices for work or brown envelopes?
So, if you have been fully legit in terms of taxes etc, then take the high ground and start putting it all in writing that you want payment on completion of work. And take it further if needs be.
BUT, if you’ve been accepting being s/ e and perhaps not quite been fully up to date on taxes etc. what you’ve saved from not paying those taxes may be more than you’re owed, in which case it may be better to walk away.
Either way, both HMRC and the traffic commissioners could be interested in the operator. Just a thought!
I made the mistake of taking on a job on a self employed basis a year and a bit ago. Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
Today I quit and now he’s saying I have to give him a months notice (of course I don’t), but the problem is I get paid monthly. We have no contract. I don’t have to give him any notice, but seeing as there is no contract, can he withhold my pay?
He owes me 11 days pay, but like I said there is no contract. I have tacho records, e-ticket records and bank records that I have been working for him.
Anyone been in this situation before? If he can leally withhold my pay then I may as well cut my losses and give him no notice. But if I work a months notice and he doesn’t pay me then I’m even more stitched up.
I made the mistake of taking on a job on a self employed basis a year and a bit ago. Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
Today I quit and now he’s saying I have to give him a months notice (of course I don’t), but the problem is I get paid monthly. We have no contract. I don’t have to give him any notice, but seeing as there is no contract, can he withhold my pay?
He owes me 11 days pay, but like I said there is no contract. I have tacho records, e-ticket records and bank records that I have been working for him.
Anyone been in this situation before? If he can leally withhold my pay then I may as well cut my losses and give him no notice. But if I work a months notice and he doesn’t pay me then I’m even more stitched up.
Total grey area.
Grey?
Riz:
Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
If that is accurate, there is no “grey”.
Both employer and employee are in the wrong.
I made the mistake of taking on a job on a self employed basis a year and a bit ago. Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
Today I quit and now he’s saying I have to give him a months notice (of course I don’t), but the problem is I get paid monthly. We have no contract. I don’t have to give him any notice, but seeing as there is no contract, can he withhold my pay?
He owes me 11 days pay, but like I said there is no contract. I have tacho records, e-ticket records and bank records that I have been working for him.
Anyone been in this situation before? If he can leally withhold my pay then I may as well cut my losses and give him no notice. But if I work a months notice and he doesn’t pay me then I’m even more stitched up.
Total grey area.
Grey?
Riz:
Of course it’s BS as the only reason I’m self employed is so my “employer” doesn’t have to pay holidays, sickness, pension or give me any employee rights.
If that is accurate, there is no “grey”.
Both employer and employee are in the wrong.
Possibly deal with the non-payment when it has actually occurred, rather than think about what might happen.
Doing a tax return by the January after a tax year ends and paying appropriate tax is the OP’s private business and is a separate issue from being paid for work done in the first place.
Noremac:
Possibly deal with the non-payment when it has actually occurred, rather than think about what might happen.
Doing a tax return by the January after a tax year ends and paying appropriate tax is the OP’s private business and is a separate issue from being paid for work done in the first place.
Remember the OP wants to leave immediately, and the boss wants him to stay.
Leaving early might “provoke” non payment/withheld wages to compensate for lack of notice.
I`m not saying that would be justified, and in the absence of as written contract, so no written terms about notice, it is difficult to see what would happen.
Hers a. Audio art thought for the OP, in the absence of a contract about when they’ll pay, the operator could agree to pay you at £5 a week and not be breaching any rules. They’re paying, just not quite as quick as you’d like.
If you worked full time for this bloke and he was your only source of income you’ve broken IR35 - simples.
As said he’s on a winner - look at all the stuff he’s avoided by not employing you as he should.
Are you registered as s/e by HMRC or have you just trousered the cash and hoped for the best?
My personal opinion for what it’s worth is walk away now (if you can afford to) and be prepared to get chopsy if he doesn’t pay you what you’re owed - working for another month seems a bit risky.
You are the only person who knows him - nobody on here does - you’ll have to make that call.
Noremac:
Doing a tax return by the January after a tax year ends and paying appropriate tax is the OP’s private business and is a separate issue from being paid for work done in the first place.
No it isn’t. The only money the government has to spend is tax payers money and borrowing our savings. Someone not paying their fair share of tax puts more of a burden on the rest of us. Someone who is not only not paying their tax but illegally claiming means tested benefits based on the income they declare is putting an even larger burden on.
Suffice to say that a lot of people working full time hours as “self employed”, not as a Ltd company and with a nod and a wink, no terms of business, not invoicing for their work are on the fiddle.
Socketset:
If you worked full time for this bloke and he was your only source of income you’ve broken IR35 - simples.
Once again for the hard of hearing…
IR35 ONLY APPLIES TO PEOPLE OPERATING AS LIMITED COMPANIES.
If you’re not self employed operating as a Ltd Company then IR35 does not apply. IR35 legislation was brought in to reduce the amount of money HM Treasury were losing by contractors working effectively as “disguised employees” set up as Ltd Companies using the low income and dividend method of paying themselves to avoid tax and employer/employee NI which in many cases was costing the Treasury £10k or more per person per year. If you’re not a Ltd Company you cannot use this method of paying yourself which is why IR35 legislation doesn’t apply.
Acorn:
Hers a. Audio art thought for the OP, in the absence of a contract about when they’ll pay, the operator could agree to pay you at £5 a week and not be breaching any rules. They’re paying, just not quite as quick as you’d like.
I think it would be breaking the rules if they changed the accepted terms of payment that had previously been adhered to.
Socketset:
If you worked full time for this bloke and he was your only source of income you’ve broken IR35 - simples.
Once again for the hard of hearing…
IR35 ONLY APPLIES TO PEOPLE OPERATING AS LIMITED COMPANIES.
If you’re not self employed operating as a Ltd Company then IR35 does not apply. IR35 legislation was brought in to reduce the amount of money HM Treasury were losing by contractors working effectively as “disguised employees” set up as Ltd Companies using the low income and dividend method of paying themselves to avoid tax and employer/employee NI which in many cases was costing the Treasury £10k or more per person per year. If you’re not a Ltd Company you cannot use this method of paying yourself which is why IR35 legislation doesn’t apply.
Yes, you’re right, just checked with the other half.
OP’s firm still disregarding the rules, though and HMRC is red hot on this stuff.