Thinking of starting up

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Is it going to be worth it? well, that really all depends on what you are looking for out of it. A nice car, house, good living, holidays, social life, kudos, peace of mind, basically no. For these things an employed driver is far better off. How ever, for a sense of having done it for yourself, the freedom to work when you want (which will be all the time, it’s now 22.34 sunday evening and I’m sat in the office doing the invoicing paperwork) then yes of course it’s worth it. I’m affraid the £10K in the bank although a good start, isn’t going to go far though. New starts are notoriously difficult to arrange finance for, lease companies don’t like the uncertainty neither do the fuel card people both of which if they were to take you on would want a substantial deposit. Looking at your circumstances, I feel that your biggest problem is going to be the lack of experience, and the financial loading that this will put on your insurance. You really need to think long and hard about what it is your doing, as this business will ■■■■ you in chew you up and spit you out, skint! I am by no means saying don’t do it, I did and glad I did too, but listen to people such as Robk, I think little of his opinions in general, but if his diatribe sounds a warning bell in you it maay prove to be worth heeding. I must reiterate, think hard before you do anything. Good luck

Oh, and by the way, I have 3 vehicles, none of which are a 580 Topline T cab :unamused:

22

Where’s Routier when you need him :question: :confused:

He’s been there, done it and has the experience and debts to match. Listen to this guy’s advice; he knows what he’s on about but I think you’ll find when it comes down to it, his advice will be just the same as mine - FORGET IT!

:bulb:

23

what many don’t consider when refering to owner operating is that it’s a bussiness and theres far more to it than running a wagon up and down the road, only maybe one in ten are suited to being self employed weather it’s in the haulage industry or in any other line of work so theres always going to be plenty of failures, i had an advantage because i’d been self employed in one way or another for twenty odd years and could sit down and look at it realistically as a way of earning money, that’s one reason i don’t have a wagon on finance! not because the job dosn’t pay enough but simply because it could come to an end next week or at any time, at the moment i could probably go two or three months without earning before things got tight which hopefully would be enough time to sort some decent work out but if i couldn’t find that work i’d do something else.
point is, it dosn’t matter wether you’ve driven wagons twenty year or twenty weeks your either cut out for it or your not, that can often come down to being able to stand having no money in your pocket while theres a couple of grand sat in the bank.
rob, you talk as if you’ve had a go and been shafted, if thats the case, well, that can happen to anyone, if your thinking of having another go i’m sure theres plenty of us who’d be happy to offer advice.
paul.

24

If you’ve got a brilliant contract with the likes of TNT, owner driving is great with good money.
Trouble is, its too ■■■■ hard to get in with firms like that, and as a result you end up working for the crap ones like Ashworth Preece or Brinor and get paid peanuts.
Neil (coffeeholic) is lucky as he’s in with a decent firm.
Not everyone is.
If you can get the work first, then its worth doing.
As for £6200 in the bank - a hell of a lot more is required on top. A lot more!

25

talkin daft and making exaggerated statements is one thing but the bloke has asked for some advice on a subject you clearly know absolutely nothing about and when you’ve been put on the spot you can’t justify anything you say about haulage rates either! perhaps it’d be better if you stayed on the general forums rather than this, that way no new comer will be missled.

I have missed sumthing here, Im sure of it, or do you know something that I dont ? I suggest you take a look at Freight Traders website and look at the rates that are being quoted by haulage companies to Manufacturers and Blue chip companies to transport their goods.

And prove me wrong if the following are paying more than this as a subbie:
Cork-Gothenberg-Bham-Cork 2500 Euros - Carna Transport - Ireland
North West UK - North Spain- North UK £1900 - Rosewood - UK
£1 per mile - Derijke Transport - Holland
90 pence per Mile Transport Maenhout - Belgium
86 pence per mile Nedexco - Holland
88 pence (Loaded) 80 pence empty McBurney Refrigeration( Previously P&O Refrigeration) - Ireland
£1 per Mile Post Kogeko - Holland
86 pence per mile LK Walter Austria
88 pence per mile Norfolk Line - Ireland
Containers approx £300 per day ( on a good day), average £275

So how dya make money out of that ?
take a look at ( free to register):
WWW.FREIGHT-TRADERS.COM
[/quote]

26

Rob K:
Where’s Routier when you need him :question: :confused:

He’s been there, done it and has the experience and debts to match. Listen to this guy’s advice; he knows what he’s on about but I think you’ll find when it comes down to it, his advice will be just the same as mine - FORGET IT!

:bulb:

Here I am!!! Rob K advice is sound advice to you fella, and I will repeat it to you DONT DO IT. If you want to blow your ten grand then donate it to me!!! :smiley: this will help pay off the debt I got into running trucks because you will end up with the same result Zero back unless you are one of the lucky few, and yes you need a lot of it plus lot and lots of dosh!

I like you 5 years ago had the same drive , to set up a decent business which I eventually did, getting my own contracts but this was after getting ripped off (£13000),engine seizure ( 5yr old topline,£9000 to repair) truck stolen (£62000), smashed up (£15000), trucks trashed (£massive!), loads lost/damaged( £lost count). You will have to run/work 24/7 to get anything like a wage out of it. and when I mean a wage I dont mean £200! That in my book is not a wage
I’ve ran another business for the last 7 yrs which ended up supporting the trucks because the revenue going out far outweighed what was coming in
and the trucks were on the road 6 days a week! and Yes I did my homework, just never had the crystal ball, had very little on Finance but still ended up in debt.

I know there are some who make it and others that dont. But the ones that dont far outweigh the ones that do. You may make it as an O/D, you wages wont be great and you wont be rich pretty much of likeness to being employed but you will have the headaches to go with it free of charge and you will have to work ■■■■ hard even when your not driving you will still be working
(doing your paperwork/finances/accounts/vat,sorting your vehicle out)

You will have to subcontract to another company unless you are really really lucky getting a contract of your own but would struggle with one truck, so that would mean you will not earn more than £1.10 per mile and thats good for today. Your average monthly turnover will be approx £6000, £1500 per week, you may have good weeks but then they are swallowed up by your bad ( lack of work, public holidays, breakdowns, etc etc)

Irlam and all the other business alike started way back and have managed to build their business successfully when rates were probably decent enough.
Coffee Holic has been in the game yrs and again started off 15 yrs ago when rates were probably the same as now but overheads less! And hes got in with a good crowd

Fuel , Insurance and Liability have all increased yrly, liablity has more than doubled even trippled since 9/11

All the other posts on this thread who dont agree with Rob K really do want take their heads out of the sand and have a good look at the industry , you really are living in “an Ideal world” and Yes you will have to run illegal at some stage to get the job done even tipping off the card counts as illegal! Remember Customer comes first , you dont.

Good luck in whatever you decide , and if you do it I do hope you make it if not PM me if you want to send me your dosh :wink:

27

if you looking at containers then as new start id go for a garanteed weekly you never make more than the minimum but the money will be regular dont expect more than 1800 quid a week on contract

rob if theres no money in haulage then how does archbold do its not the od that run for nothing its that companies wont pay a rate thats the way of the free market it would actully be cheeper for archbold to sack all there drivers, sell all there trucks and sub all there work out

if your prepaird to work hard and i mean hard then do some serious reserch and pick a truck that can do almost anything ie 6x2 and sliding fifth wheel

28

paul b:
rob, you talk as if you’ve had a go and been shafted, if thats the case, well, that can happen to anyone, if your thinking of having another go i’m sure theres plenty of us who’d be happy to offer advice.
paul.

I’m not an o/d and never have been, but I have seriously wanted to give it a go on numerous occasions in the past. I’ve worked for a lot of o/d’s in my time and seen every single one of them pack it in or wind up bankrupt.

Even before you consider all the start-up costs involved, the fact you won’t be earning more than £1/mile (if you’re lucky) and the fact that diesel is £1/litre in some parts of the UK (and ever rising) should be enough to put the idea of being an o/d out of your head straight away. The figures just don’t add up. It doesn’t take a genius to work that out.

:bulb:

I think you lot who are telling the guy that he can make money out of being an o/d are just kidding yourselves that you are, when in actual fact you’re not at all, unless you’re running bent :bulb: .

29

alix776:
rob if theres no money in haulage then how does archbold do its not the od that run for nothing its that companies wont pay a rate thats the way of the free market it would actully be cheeper for archbold to sack all there drivers, sell all there trucks and sub all there work out

Because Archies have been going decades and had the contracts decades too. When you’ve been offering a reliable service to one of your customers for a long time then they will be happy and you’re then in a position to negotiate higher rates. Archies have a number of UK-only subbies on for them and from what I understand from one o/d they pay £1.20/mile, but you have to sort out your own backloads.

Remember that Archies used to employ their own drivers on Euro work, but how many of their own have they got on it now :question:

ZERO.

I don’t know how much truth there is in it - I’ve no reason to doubt the source, but I understand that Dana at Kilmarnock pay Archies well over £4k per trip for the axles to go to Iveco in Italy. Archies pay their subbies £2100 for the same trip …

I rest my case … :bulb:

30

I don’t know how much truth there is in it - I’ve no reason to doubt the source, but I understand that Dana at Kilmarnock pay Archies well over £4k per trip for the axles to go to Iveco in Italy. Archies pay their subbies £2100 for the same trip …

I rest my case … :bulb:

Thats £2100 round trip Rob ? So Archies are getting for the whole trip at least £5500 ? With no hassles/ overheads ?

31

Good luck with your class 1 test WHARTY, when you pass it will obviously increase your job prospects and you may find yourself with a decent employer so may not have as much desire to start up on your own.

32

routier:

talkin daft and making exaggerated statements is one thing but the bloke has asked for some advice on a subject you clearly know absolutely nothing about and when you’ve been put on the spot you can’t justify anything you say about haulage rates either! perhaps it’d be better if you stayed on the general forums rather than this, that way no new comer will be missled.

I have missed sumthing here, Im sure of it, or do you know something that I dont ? I suggest you take a look at Freight Traders website and look at the rates that are being quoted by haulage companies to Manufacturers and Blue chip companies to transport their goods.

And prove me wrong if the following are paying more than this as a subbie:
Cork-Gothenberg-Bham-Cork 2500 Euros - Carna Transport - Ireland
North West UK - North Spain- North UK £1900 - Rosewood - UK
£1 per mile - Derijke Transport - Holland
90 pence per Mile Transport Maenhout - Belgium
86 pence per mile Nedexco - Holland
88 pence (Loaded) 80 pence empty McBurney Refrigeration( Previously P&O Refrigeration) - Ireland
£1 per Mile Post Kogeko - Holland
86 pence per mile LK Walter Austria
88 pence per mile Norfolk Line - Ireland
Containers approx £300 per day ( on a good day), average £275

So how dya make money out of that ?
take a look at ( free to register):
WWW.FREIGHT-TRADERS.COM

[/quote]

sorry if this offends but if you need to look at web sites to find work then your in the wrong game! infact i’d go as far as to say that decent work at proper rates will never be advertissed, lets face it if you had some decent fulltime work for a subbie would you really have to advertise to get someone reliable to do it?

33

Rob K:

paul b:
rob, you talk as if you’ve had a go and been shafted, if thats the case, well, that can happen to anyone, if your thinking of having another go i’m sure theres plenty of us who’d be happy to offer advice.
paul.

I’m not an o/d and never have been, but I have seriously wanted to give it a go on numerous occasions in the past. I’ve worked for a lot of o/d’s in my time and seen every single one of them pack it in or wind up bankrupt.

Even before you consider all the start-up costs involved, the fact you won’t be earning more than £1/mile (if you’re lucky) and the fact that diesel is £1/litre in some parts of the UK (and ever rising) should be enough to put the idea of being an o/d out of your head straight away. The figures just don’t add up. It doesn’t take a genius to work that out.

:bulb:

I think you lot who are telling the guy that he can make money out of being an o/d are just kidding yourselves that you are, when in actual fact you’re not at all, unless you’re running bent :bulb: .

no, i’ve never told anyone they can make money out of owner driving because at the end of the day that depends on two things, how hard the particular bloke is prepared to work and what rate he ends up working for!
i could come on here and tell you what i was clearing a month out of one rigid wagon and you wouldn’t believe me! and i run 100% legal, my vats up to date to the penny my maintanence records are there to be seen as are my tacho’s for the last year! it’s entirely your choice what you do for a living, what i can’t understand is why you want to put others of having a go at something you’ve never done? i can see why one or two who’ve had a go and fell on their faces are bitter about the whole game but can any of those honestly say that if they’d dropped on the right work at the right time they wouldn’t still be doing it now?

theres been a lot said about continental rates and i’ll be the first to admit i know nothing about that side of the game but looking from the outside in, it seems very optimistic for a uk hualier or owner driver to expect to earn “good” money competing against foriegn hauliers with lower running costs and drivers who are happy to earn £150 a week.

34

Rob K:
Sorry for being blunt, but don’t do it !

Yep, that was among the advice I was given 16 years ago.

Rob K:
ideas that they can make money out of it :question:
The fact of it is that you CAN’T.

And that one.

ianyng:
Neil (coffeeholic) is lucky as he’s in with a decent firm.
Not everyone is.

It has nothing to do with luck, I put in some hard work to get to where I am today and I have to keep doing the job right to keep it that way, it could all end tomorrow, as you are only ever as good as your last job.

35

I think the bottom line is that running for £1 per mile or less isn’t worth it, you’re better off being employed, unless you have a real “thing” for it.

Tramping for the firms that advertise in the mags will involve you “doing a bit”, however small which isn’t good for your peace of mind.

Supermarket work i.e. morrisons is going to be better than most and not involve you running bent but as has been said “getting in” is quite hard, “it’s who you know” applies very much in the haulage industry.

IF you can get in direct with a company that pay more i.e. 1.30, 1.50 or £2 per mile (Round Trip, touting for backloads is a major pain in the …) or specialise with your own trailer i.e. fridges(direct for food Co.), tankers, double-deckers and can also double shift the wagon then yes it is worth it.

The only problem is if you get in with this work, buy the wagon and maybe trailer, then it goes pear shaped and you’re back punting for a £1 per mile. O for a crystal ball…

36

good point, you’ve probably hit the nail on the head there, to get the best rates you need to be doing something a bit specialised, i run bright bar steel for which you need a wagon thats kitted out for the job and have to know how to load it, the firm i sub off pay a lot more for this work than they do for palletised stuff.
a mate of mine runs six hiab wagons all with decent size cranes and those wagons go out and earn very good money week in week out, i had one with a smaller block grab crane and really strugled to make it pay.

37

Wharty - Just a couple of things.

Firstly, you’ll need a lot more than a spare £10,000 in the bank. That will be gone in a week!

Second, as you’re only just going for a class 1, your insurance premium will be very high. No claims discount will not apply in your case, and you won’t be able to get an introductory discouunt because of your lack of experience in a HGV.

My personal advice - forget it for a while, or buy a small one.

38

paul b:
good point, you’ve probably hit the nail on the head there, to get the best rates you need to be doing something a bit specialised, i run bright bar steel for which you need a wagon thats kitted out for the job and have to know how to load it, the firm i sub off pay a lot more for this work than they do for palletised stuff.
a mate of mine runs six hiab wagons all with decent size cranes and those wagons go out and earn very good money week in week out, i had one with a smaller block grab crane and really strugled to make it pay.

Yep you are right. However My advice and general consenus is DONT DO IT unless you have good work lined up, are aware of the pitfalls, harships etc. I think Rob K and I are saying dont do it and become another £1 per mile operator because it doesnt work out.

Yes I fell over on the second to last hurdle and if I had got decent work out of the UK then Yes I would have made it and probably would have had more wagons on the road now. The Guy I sold out to ( this is his second attempt) has got it sorted this time, hes got a specialist market and seems to be doing Very well which Im please about as hes managed to carry on something I started.

39

Sorry if this offends but if you need to look at web sites to find work then your in the wrong game! infact i’d go as far as to say that decent work at proper rates will never be advertissed, lets face it if you had some decent fulltime work for a subbie would you really have to advertise to get someone reliable to do it?

No Im not offended and didnt use websites as my one and only source. The site I have given will give you some ideas of what Nissan, Kelloggs, Diversy Lever,Georgia Pacific Europe,Kimberly-Clark Europe Limited and the like are prepared to pay. These are not haulage companies, they are manufacturers who rely on hauliers to ship their goods from A TO B,C,D,E,F…Z!

Also the bulk of the Companies that I listed never advertise and have never appeared in any truck mag looking for Subbies (except for Rosewood). As you say you say they dont need to advertise if the outfit is good has good standing but that doesnt necessarily mean the rates they offer are good!

If you can get £1.40 plus per mile then yes you will do OK, but they are very few and far between in my experience unless you are fortunate enough to have found the right work with the right company.

I see you are running a rigid, probaly making as much if not more than an artic. Shrewd Move! :wink:

40

well to be honest i looked long and hard at going into artics when i’d decided that the block work wasn’t going to pay off, looked at variouse options, boxes, hiab,bulk tippers and posssibly touting for traction only with half a dozen local firms but none of it actually panned out on paper, yes if you did x amount of miles at x amount you could potentially make a decent wage but that’s all it was, a wage and no profit which to me is a must to cover any unforeseen costs that might be round the corner, although saying all that the running costs of a six wheel rigid are only marginally less than a unit doing traction only, and in this crazy game rigid rates are often better.
the lads on here that run artics will know vastly more than i do about the job and will no doubt have ways and means of making it pay that aren’t obviouse looking from the outside in but i think everyone would agree that you can’t lump owner driving as one type of work when you talk about earning money, clearly being on a good contract or subbing good work off a good firm is very different from touting for work and at times being forced to take on crap to keep the wagons rolling.