They have allegedly been “bought out” by New Wave Accounting.
Sounds like Think Accounting and Think Umbrella are related some where along the line.I work for an agency and use Think Umbrella who are now New Wave Umbrella,I have never had a problem with either company,expenses are via email,get a text every Thursday what I am getting paid, money goes in my account every Friday payslip through the post the following Monday,cant fault them to date.
You can’t fault them to date but if the investigation is really happening and its deemed to be a MSC then you’re going to be mighty ■■■■■■ when the tax bill lands on your doorstep. Hope you weren’t claiming too much as an expense. You’ll be repaying at least 20% of everything you or they have claimed on your income as an expense since you started with them if this goes ■■■■ up.
Think are certainly being investigated by HMRC over MSC legislation. If you go vat registered with them just look at what they take in weekly fees for administering the vat. MSC legislation only effects the Ltd company workers not the umbrella worker, but HMRC work in mysterious ways and the letters will be dropping through the letter boxes very shortly.
SCAM SCAMMERS AVOID
Think Accounting of Lincoln / Or New Wave Accounting as they are now called are very good till you find their little scam
Think Accounting has action pending to be struck off
I have been with them nearly 2 years and signed up for the tracker package £23.94 per week
Then I found the monies from the flat rate vat scheme had been removed from my Ltd company over £5,000
in short you charge 20% vat but only pay 10% to hmrc so at £500 per week this is £50 per week difference
when I raised this with them they said the vat money was part of their fees
what £2,500.00 ontop of the already paid £1,250.00 now that’s a joke
but then they couldn’t tell me exactly what my fees were or what they had invoiced me for
now not taking my calls or replying to emails
so have dumped them and started legal proceedings to recover the missing funds
I would not trust them as far as I could throw them
So far found another 6 drivers they have done this too
so probably starting a joint legal action
keep you all posted
If your with check the vat flat scheme and see if they have kept your ltd companies money
Its to be hoped that more people using their services and that are getting totally ripped off with their vat take legal action. Its the only way to stop firms like these operating.
how did you come across this lovely little fiddle ?
i also have been with think/new wave for some time and had some problems that you seem to be answering
robbo99:
Its to be hoped that more people using their services and that are getting totally ripped off with their vat take legal action. Its the only way to stop firms like these operating.
Aren’t they just playing the game, just like the drivers who are using their services, when in reality they should be on PAYE?
below is the small print regarding vat, bugger if i can understand it tho !
If you are vat registered and use Think as it was Think before it got “bought out”, then I bet your pay advice doesn’t mention any of the vat charged. That’s because they are keeping YOUR COMPANY’S vat and using it to cover their fees. That’s on top of the weekly fees that you are paying them. So lets say you pay them £23.95 per week for their book keeping package and you earn £500.00 per week, they then add on 20% vat and charge the agency £600.00, ie £100.00 vat of which roughly half of that goes to HMRC and they keep the rest as an accounting fee, so for that weeks work they have charged you around £70.00 believe it or not. Times that by say 48 weeks work in the year and you are talking serious money, they tell you you can get back some of the vat from them, ha ha you try to get it out of them. If that’s called playing the game then so be it, I would use a different way of describing it. This government has created the explosion in the one man band Ltd companies as full time jobs have almost vanished in the haulage sector, its sink or swim.
just checked my ‘tax statements’
you’re bang on mate - no mention of vat anywhere, 2 1/2 years and i never noticed !
i have emailed them to explain this, will keep you up to date, suspect a big fat *************
as a note to self tho, just opened a pack from them to find out it is for another contractor but all the HMRC paperwork that has to be signed has my NI number but somebody else name and address, make of that what you will
weeto:
robbo99:
Its to be hoped that more people using their services and that are getting totally ripped off with their vat take legal action. Its the only way to stop firms like these operating.Aren’t they just playing the game, just like the drivers who are using their services, when in reality they should be on PAYE?
Unfortunately alot of agency using the umbrella/ltd route so that AWR regs dont apply, case in point is the green goblins at sherburn, agency rate is less than their own drivers get !
Ref New Wave Accounting Lincoln / Think Accounting Lincoln
The point is we are drivers and don’t want be bogged down with paperwork
Hence we use companies like Think, and sadly trust them to be doing their job correctly
unfortunately they are just there to take advantage and rip us off
Lee Wilson the man behind Think / New Wave and about 20 other connected companies needs to answer afew questions
trouble is now the hard battle is to get the monies they hold belonging to my Ltd company and my previous accounts
and some invoices from them for the fees they have invented
when they are not responding to my emails
and not returning my phone calls
Maybe I need to get their attention by parking and arctic across the exit to their car park at finishing time on Friday
if anyone is passing their place in Lincoln let me know if they have a car park with one in and out road
keep you posted
cheers
Simon
Spurry
New Wave officially took over Think on 16th January 2015
and yes they have a lot more small print in their terms and conditions like your drop box clip
Any charges made prior to this were collected by Think
But if you are like me Think Accounting never mentioned vat and keeping it as part of fees in their letter of engagement ( the contract )
Hence any extra charges are not authorised or legal
But has Think Accounting got any money left to pay if you take legal action and win
Assuming they were expecting claims prior to changing their name then I doubt it
cheers
Simon
The Owner you refer to has a facebook page bragging of his brand new Aston Martin, thats paid for out of your companys vat. His company Think did not go bust it was bought out so therefore it may have assets, he certainly does with his Aston Martin and his luxury flat in London. Check him out on facebook.
ref Think Accounting Lincoln / New Wave Accounting Lincoln
It gets worse
probably should start a separate post for this aspect
apart from ripping us off on the fees front Think were also failing on the advice as our accountants
The investigation by HMRC ( hence their name change ) is far reaching
They have decided all clients of Think were actually managed service companies
see this link to explain
contractoruk.com/managed_service_companies/
is short because they did your invoicing / collected your money etc etc
all to cover up the fact they were ripping us off
you will be classed as an employee for the purposes of tax / paye no expenses are allowed
So the big tax bills have already started dropping through the doors
One driver I have spoke to has just had one for £16,000.00 to cover his 4 years with Think
Sorry if you are or have been a client of Think it is only a matter of time before yours arrives
They have all the client records and are just working through them
Regards
Simon
sbhep have you got any links to the info your posting here…i had a phone convo a while ago with hmrc regarding think and they explained what you have here but they hadnt made a decision then…can you share where the info has come from please luckily for me i was only with them for 14 weeks but some of the lads i know still use them and have done for a few years now so anything you could share proof wise would be a big help …cheers
Think Accounting (as they were) charged a weekly/transaction fee of approximately £24 this was for the all inclusive book keeping/accounting fee. In April 2013 they issued a letter of engagement this now mentioned two fees, the £24 fee was now described as a book keeping fee and there was an extra charge described as FRS% this was for accounting fees, which is totally ambiguous and unclear. In reality what this FRS% meant was that they kept your excess flat rate scheme vat which is roughly half of your vat generated on your invoices, but the weekly payslips made no mention of any vat. When you terminate their services they send you a statement and strangely enough the amount of your companies vat which they have kept is then equal to the extra charges they charge you. This vat can total thousands of pounds depending how long you have used their services. This is on top of the weekly/transaction fees they have charged you .
To add insult to injury Thinks practices have been investigated by HMRC and is on going, put simply if Think are deemed to be a Managed Service Company Provider then all the Ltd companies that have used them will be getting Income Tax bills and expenses will be not allowed for the periods claimed for. Obviously if a Ltd company has used their services for 4 or 5 years then the tax bill will run into thousands of pounds.
Morphie ref the info on the tax investigation I work for a large agency and drivers meet and chat I actually read the HMRC letter to the bloke with the £16,000 bill someone else sent me a message on here who had a bill and another one of our ex drivers has had a bill for £8,000 but the strange thing is he has been working for a company permanently for about 2 years so its like back tax for 2012 and 2013
So god knows how many drivers are getting bills
An accountant thinks that if you have been with Think less than 2 years the tax man will not bill you
I would advise any Ltd company driver to have their own business account, do their own invoicing and collect their money
Then they cannot be classed as a managed service company by HMRC
I would also advise they don’t use think accounting or as they are now called new wave accounting Lincoln as the actual fees you pay when they have robbed your VAT is about £3,000 a year instead of £500 to £1000 for any other accountant
I finished with them and am trying to get my vat back, one of my arguments was they never invoiced me for any fees
3 days ago they invoiced me from new wave for the 21 months I was with Think
this was ontop of the £23 a week they had charged me which they refer as book keeping
Invoice total £5,833.00 which strangely is the actual amount of VAT they had taken off my Ltd Company
I will scan it and put it on here as it makes me laugh
things like text messages £120 ( that’s a lot of texts )
business planning £80 ( what ■■? )
Vat returns £600.00 ( they only did 6 of them )
Sales ledger entry £622.00 ( I only had one sale to enter per week )
etc etc
It has clearly been invented to suit and most of it equates to Thinks work so god knows how New Wave can charge it
I will keep you all posted
Cheers
Simon
I was with Think Accounting for just short of three years and received a tax bill from HMRC in February. I spoken to the HMRC and basically there have a water tight case which I have had backed up with my new accountants barrister this is what he said.
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That you continually argued against ‘Think’ managing your company’s money and can demonstrate that you asked for it to be paid into your own limited company account
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That if you accidentally found out that ‘Think’ had tried to register you for vat, you then queried this or stopped it
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That you have a large evidence bundle of emails and phone call history proving you were taking control of your own company and issuing requests and orders for change and/or work doing
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You would definitely need to have had your own limited company bank account
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You would definitely have ‘added substantial items’ of costs and expenditure or income to the accounts that ‘Think’ prepared and would need to demonstrate that you initiated changes to these accounts
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You would have a stronger case if you can demonstrate that you quickly left ‘Think’ within months of joining them as you felt they were exercising too much involvement in your business
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You would have a stronger case if you had quickly transferred to a professional accountancy firm which operated only as accountants and were not involved in your businesses day to day management of its affairs
Basically if you can demonstrate any of the above then you might able to appeal there decision, Under MSC legislation HMRC can transfer debt to the directors of think accounting or to the Agency’s if its proved that there encouraged you into using think as your accountant.