GasGas:
All those safety standards and stuff…those are the ‘red tape’ that Brexit-backing ‘businessmen’ want us to get rid of.Who needs safe electrical appliances when, free of the EU, we can import dangerous ones from China?
Ditto drugs, cars and anything else you can think of.
There’s nothing to stop the UK imposing eu safety standards on Chinese imports in exactly the same way as Russia has for many years used eu drivers’ hours and tachograph rules for domestic road transport regulation.
Cockerdog:
I do not consider myself a ‘remainer’ and I’m certainly not a ‘remoaner’. The vote was for ‘leave’ and ‘leave’ it must be.What I don’t get is how we ended up in a situation where Brexit is being lead by someone who doesn’t really have the enthusiasm for it! What happened to the ‘leave’ flag bearers? This was their moment to shine. It was their opportunity to write history. It was what they wanted!! It was their opportunity lead us into the brave new world.
I wanted them to show me I was a fool for playing safe and being reticent.
I don’t want another vote, I want someone to make it work for me and my family, and for you and your families!!
Is that too much to ask?
Agree with all of this & I voted leave. Cameron had just won a sustatial majority in a general election &, IMHO, beliieved his own hype and went to the EU to get a better deal & didn’t try that hard or miss read the mood of the electorate. Either way he didn’t think he could lose the referedum so didn’t do enough to persuade me that his view was stronger than the alternative. I heard little from remain about resisting the increasing integration into the US of E, I heard nothing about increasing accountability of those who would be speaking, alledgedly, for me while I had no way of showing my displeasure when I disagreed. Sadly the leave campaign didn’t think they would win so had no plan in place when they did. The consequenses we are now living with.
Not 1 politician has shown themselves to be Leaders in place or in waiting. Theresa May has her fingerprints all over the deal on offer & it contradicts so much of what she said before, Northern Ireland and preserving the UK union? It doesn’t make her a bad person but it does suggest, again, flawed judgement. Losing 1 Brexit Secretary is unfortunate but 2 is looking careless. Gove declining to take the poisened challis that Brexit Secretary has become yet not resign from the cabinet tells me that he expects a leadership contest soon and fancies his chances. Ironically that may be, if not the best, probably the least worse option at this stage of the game.
Winseer:
GasGas:
So we leave the EU without agreement, and revert to WTO rules.What can go wrong?
Quite a lot actually
Reverting to “only” WTO rules as an option, implies that Britain is not actually a nation state, and never has been as yet.
We’ll write ourselves into the global economy on our own terms.
We can start by having a Brexiteer as PM who has the foreign connections that May clearly never had.The only “template” deal that was worth looking at was “Canada+++” which has already been torpedoed by May’s deal today.
Canada +++ was never going to be offered. It was a project to keep David Davies busy whilst Oily Robbins and his masters in Brussels worked on Chequers.
There were Civil Servants in Davis’s office SECRETLY working on Chequers whilst, no doubt, feeding Robbins everything he and his master, Barnier, needed to know about ‘Canada’.
Merkel and Rutter knew the details of Chequers long before anyone outside of Robbins’s clique did.
There’s a very revealing interview with Andrew Bridgen doing the rounds - it’s eye-opening.
The last thing he said sums it up,
“…Theresa May believed Olly Robbins was Whitehall’s man in Brussels whilst history will show he was actually Brussels’s man in Whitehall”.
Civil Servants are responsible for this ****storm.
"Wiret:
Sadly the leave campaign didn’t think they would win so had no plan in place when they did. The consequenses we are now living with.
.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Cons never intended to deliver a Leave vote regardless of the fake ‘referendum’ ( opinion poll if Leave won and binding vote if Remain won ) result.The equally fake ‘Brexit Ministry’ and Brexit ‘Minister/s’ were just part of the same scam to fool the Leave vote.The predictable and intended consequences we are now lumbered with in the form of May’s ( Cameron’s ) Remain + and the derailing of UKIP both domestically and in Europe.Why would anyone expect anything different from the party which took us into the EU and which made its Remain position clear to the electorate in both referenda.The ideological difference between a Federalist v Nationalist being so great that Davis’ and Raab’s fake ‘protests’ and fake resignation from a fake Ministry are laughably obvious when compared to Powell’s sincere and uncompromising position on Europe v his Conservative peers.
While the word is that this Remain + deal seals us into this Federal ■■■■■■■■ to the point where even if we get an effective UKIP opposition holding the balance of power it would now take a war of secession to get us out because it’s binding on any future administration.Good luck with that with the obviously equally quisling Royal perogative.Make no mistake this is very scary stuff with the government now undoubtedly clearly working in the interests of a foreign unelected power and having now finally also removed any right to secede from it that we might have had.
Red Barchetta:
Civil Servants are responsible for this ****storm.
How so when the Royal Perogative and its equally ultimate command of the armed forces is the ultimate authority in the defence of the realm being handed over to a foreign power with the help of a rogue government.Which leaves only one possible conclusion.
Harry Monk:
GasGas:
All those safety standards and stuff…those are the ‘red tape’ that Brexit-backing ‘businessmen’ want us to get rid of.Who needs safe electrical appliances when, free of the EU, we can import dangerous ones from China?
Ditto drugs, cars and anything else you can think of.
There’s nothing to stop the UK imposing eu safety standards on Chinese imports in exactly the same way as Russia has for many years used eu drivers’ hours and tachograph rules for domestic road transport regulation.
Russia uses AETR rules, which are now aligned with EU rules. Russia has no influence on the EU rules. Apart from North America, the rest of the world is aligning towards the Euro vehicle exhaust emissions standards. As EU members we had a voice in those standards. As an outside nation, we do not.
We could continue with EU safety standards, which could be ensured by sourcing all electrical appliances we buy via the EU, but we will have lost any influence on the form the regs themselves take.
We become a rule-taker, not a rule-maker. Not what Brexiteers promised at all.
Here’s an interesting example from Autocar
autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu … ost-brexit
We have less international influence on our own than we had as a powerful voice in the EU.
I have little emotional attachment to the EU. Indeed, I once caused a ‘bit of a stir’ at an EU road safety conference when I challenged a Greek Eurocrat when he said that the then still-to-be-introduced digital tacho could not be manipulated (he called me an imbecile). History shows who was right on that one, and who was the imbecile!
However, I believe we are better off fighting our corner inside than shouting through the window from the outside.
Carryfast:
"Wiret:
Sadly the leave campaign didn’t think they would win so had no plan in place when they did. The consequenses we are now living with.
.It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Cons never intended to deliver a Leave vote regardless of the fake ‘referendum’ ( opinion poll if Leave won and binding vote if Remain won ) result.The equally fake ‘Brexit Ministry’ and Brexit ‘Minister/s’ were just part of the same scam to fool the Leave vote.The predictable and intended consequences we are now lumbered with in the form of May’s ( Cameron’s ) Remain + and the derailing of UKIP both domestically and in Europe.Why would anyone expect anything different from the party which took us into the EU and which made its Remain position clear to the electorate in both referenda.The ideological difference between a Federalist v Nationalist being so great that Davis’ and Raab’s fake ‘protests’ and fake resignation from a fake Ministry are laughably obvious when compared to Powell’s sincere and uncompromising position on Europe v his Conservative peers.
While the word is that this Remain + deal seals us into this Federal ■■■■■■■■ to the point where even if we get an effective UKIP opposition holding the balance of power it would now take a war of secession to get us out because it’s binding on any future administration.Good luck with that with the obviously equally quisling Royal perogative.Make no mistake this is very scary stuff with the government now undoubtedly clearly working in the interests of a foreign unelected power and having now finally also removed any right to secede from it that we might have had.
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Surely there are some serious electoral irregularities if what is being said here is true. Enough for criminal charges here and abroad!!■■
I’ve said in a previous post that I’m not in favour of another vote but the info in this post , if true, would be a game changer.
To put the question again, with both sides ‘prepared’ and the absence of ‘Project Fear’ and ‘Project Over-Positive’, it might give one side or the other a decent majority to form a mandate around. If it came out as ‘leave’ the arch Brexiteers could do their stuff, knowing they have real backing and support. If it came out as ‘remain’, well, remain is remain.
With regards to being ‘locked-in’ to the new agreement wasn’t there some suggestion that we could justifiably just walk away from our current situation. How would this be different for May’s deal?
GasGas:
Russia uses AETR rules, which are now aligned with EU rules. Russia has no influence on the EU rules. Apart from North America, the rest of the world is aligning towards the Euro vehicle exhaust emissions standards. As EU members we had a voice in those standards. As an outside nation, we do not.We could continue with EU safety standards, which could be ensured by sourcing all electrical appliances we buy via the EU, but we will have lost any influence on the form the regs themselves take.
We become a rule-taker, not a rule-maker. Not what Brexiteers promised at all.
Here’s an interesting example from Autocar
autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu … ost-brexit
We have less international influence on our own than we had as a powerful voice in the EU.
I have little emotional attachment to the EU. Indeed, I once caused a ‘bit of a stir’ at an EU road safety conference when I challenged a Greek Eurocrat when he said that the then still-to-be-introduced digital tacho could not be manipulated (he called me an imbecile). History shows who was right on that one, and who was the imbecile!
However, I believe we are better off fighting our corner inside than shouting through the window from the outside.
No the definition of freedom and self determination means that we are better off with the national right of opt out.Remind us again why you’re so against that situation.No surprise that remainer May,together with all the other remainers who’ve infiltrated and hijacked the Brexit process tell us that the only choice is that between EU Federal rule,with the token representation within the EU parliament,or EU Federal rule with no representation.The overall result effectively being the same in either case.Such as in the case of driver’s hours regs meaning knackered drivers still working when they should be asleep doing 15 hour shifts and awake drivers parking in an unsuitable place when they are awake and alert because they’ve run out of driving time.When we could do something far simpler and more effective for ourselves like 12 hours minimum daily rest and no seperate driving time limit under ‘domestic’ regs which mean and do what they say on the tin.
On that note it’s clear that we voted to Leave the EU which means that we don’t need any bs ‘influence’ within the Federation because we’d have the National right to do our own thing as we please which is the definition of Brexit/Leave.Just as we would in the case of a Confederal Europe which again the Soviet style control freak Federalists masquerading as the Remainers don’t want either.On that note remind us how we are supposedly rule makers when it’s the commissioners ( Politburo ) who make the directives which are then passed by QMV which means that a majority foreign vote can impose its will on every nation over that nation’s own national vote.But being an obvious Federalist you already knew that difference and distinction.Make no mistake the whole scam is all about green/libdem type zealots for example,using EU dictat,to impose their will on the country without any National democratic mandate for it.
Cockerdog:
Carryfast:
"Wiret:
Sadly the leave campaign didn’t think they would win so had no plan in place when they did. The consequenses we are now living with.
.It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Cons never intended to deliver a Leave vote regardless of the fake ‘referendum’ ( opinion poll if Leave won and binding vote if Remain won ) result.The equally fake ‘Brexit Ministry’ and Brexit ‘Minister/s’ were just part of the same scam to fool the Leave vote.The predictable and intended consequences we are now lumbered with in the form of May’s ( Cameron’s ) Remain + and the derailing of UKIP both domestically and in Europe.Why would anyone expect anything different from the party which took us into the EU and which made its Remain position clear to the electorate in both referenda.The ideological difference between a Federalist v Nationalist being so great that Davis’ and Raab’s fake ‘protests’ and fake resignation from a fake Ministry are laughably obvious when compared to Powell’s sincere and uncompromising position on Europe v his Conservative peers.
While the word is that this Remain + deal seals us into this Federal ■■■■■■■■ to the point where even if we get an effective UKIP opposition holding the balance of power it would now take a war of secession to get us out because it’s binding on any future administration.Good luck with that with the obviously equally quisling Royal perogative.Make no mistake this is very scary stuff with the government now undoubtedly clearly working in the interests of a foreign unelected power and having now finally also removed any right to secede from it that we might have had.
Surely there are some serious electoral irregularities if what is being said here is true. Enough for criminal charges here and abroad!!■■
I’ve said in a previous post that I’m not in favour of another vote but the info in this post , if true, would be a game changer.
To put the question again, with both sides ‘prepared’ and the absence of ‘Project Fear’ and ‘Project Over-Positive’, it might give one side or the other a decent majority to form a mandate around. If it came out as ‘leave’ the arch Brexiteers could do their stuff, knowing they have real backing and support. If it came out as ‘remain’, well, remain is remain.
With regards to being ‘locked-in’ to the new agreement wasn’t there some suggestion that we could justifiably just walk away from our current situation. How would this be different for May’s deal?
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Firstly a majority is a majority whether its 52 % or 95 %.Although having said that how is it even possible to allow the situation of voting a country out of existence and into a subservient state of a Federal Europe.Which also plays into the hands of dictatorial despots of all types from Conservative elites to Soviet Socialists.At which point the issue is clearly one of National Security and defence of the realm ( Nation ) and as such falls under the remit of the Royal Perogative not Parliament and definitely not up for democratic decision to take out the country.More like a matter for the armed forces to start making arrests of Remain politicians for subversion on orders of the Queen.
Notwithstanding all that we hold another non binding referendum and remain win with 53% then what ?.While if it’s binding then the obvious question would be why wasn’t the previous referendum binding on the government.While it’s equally clear that the excuse which he Federalists are using is based on the definition of Brexit not the size of the majority for leave or remain.In which the idea that we ‘Remain’ tied to EU rule including immigration policy and we still have to provide open access to our fishing rights and still contribute to the EU budget is laughably called ‘Leave’.
Cockerdog:
Carryfast:
"Wiret:
Sadly the leave campaign didn’t think they would win so had no plan in place when they did. The consequenses we are now living with.
.It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Cons never intended to deliver a Leave vote regardless of the fake ‘referendum’ ( opinion poll if Leave won and binding vote if Remain won ) result.The equally fake ‘Brexit Ministry’ and Brexit ‘Minister/s’ were just part of the same scam to fool the Leave vote.The predictable and intended consequences we are now lumbered with in the form of May’s ( Cameron’s ) Remain + and the derailing of UKIP both domestically and in Europe.Why would anyone expect anything different from the party which took us into the EU and which made its Remain position clear to the electorate in both referenda.The ideological difference between a Federalist v Nationalist being so great that Davis’ and Raab’s fake ‘protests’ and fake resignation from a fake Ministry are laughably obvious when compared to Powell’s sincere and uncompromising position on Europe v his Conservative peers.
While the word is that this Remain + deal seals us into this Federal ■■■■■■■■ to the point where even if we get an effective UKIP opposition holding the balance of power it would now take a war of secession to get us out because it’s binding on any future administration.Good luck with that with the obviously equally quisling Royal perogative.Make no mistake this is very scary stuff with the government now undoubtedly clearly working in the interests of a foreign unelected power and having now finally also removed any right to secede from it that we might have had.
Surely there are some serious electoral irregularities if what is being said here is true. Enough for criminal charges here and abroad!!■■
I’ve said in a previous post that I’m not in favour of another vote but the info in this post , if true, would be a game changer.
To put the question again, with both sides ‘prepared’ and the absence of ‘Project Fear’ and ‘Project Over-Positive’, it might give one side or the other a decent majority to form a mandate around. If it came out as ‘leave’ the arch Brexiteers could do their stuff, knowing they have real backing and support. If it came out as ‘remain’, well, remain is remain.
With regards to being ‘locked-in’ to the new agreement wasn’t there some suggestion that we could justifiably just walk away from our current situation. How would this be different for May’s deal?
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Shouldn`t we leave aside unsupported suggestions of “electoral fraud”, “fake resignations by fake ministers”, “Quisling Royals”, and anything said by anyone who speaks of “predictable and intended consequences”!
If there were to be a second referendum, and it had a clear (say 80%?) or more majority in either direction, it may help the situation.
However another vote with a nearly even split again, especially one going just the other way, would make a bad situation worse.
Could we “just walk away”?
Who would want to sign a future deal with us if we welch on existing partners?
If we welched on the EU where would we go for the 40% of food imports we currently get?
Whatever our future arrangements with the EU they ARE our nearest and biggest trading partners. Stiffing them today won`t serve us well with them or anyone else in the future.
Franglais:
Shouldn`t we leave aside unsupported suggestions of “electoral fraud”, “fake resignations by fake ministers”, “Quisling Royals”, and anything said by anyone who speaks of “predictable and intended consequences”!If there were to be a second referendum, and it had a clear (say 80%?) or more majority in either direction, it may help the situation.
However another vote with a nearly even split again, especially one going just the other way, would make a bad situation worse.Could we “just walk away”?
Who would want to sign a future deal with us if we welch on existing partners?
If we welched on the EU where would we go for the 40% of food imports we currently get?
Whatever our future arrangements with the EU they ARE our nearest and biggest trading partners. Stiffing them today won`t serve us well with them or anyone else in the future.
Why do you view the idea of secession as ‘welching’ ?.You’re just showing your despotic Federalist ideology.So it’s the same old threat of starving us into submission today and we can bet it will be a German led EU Federal army invading us to impose EU rule over Nationalist Brit ‘rebels’ tomorrow.
As for our so called ‘trading partners’.It’s actually a ‘partnership’ which costs us loads of money in terms of the deficit and net contribution for the privilege.It’s the loss of that foreign aid budget which is what is really behind your claims of welching.Also why would any other country view it the same when Japan or New Zealand among others don’t have to submit to EU rule to trade with the EU.While if the EU then wants to go on with the blackmail of cash and sovereignty for trade then as I said you hit us we hit Germany and telling us that we are too stupid to replace German imports with Brit made stuff is the only laughably insulting response you’ve got to that.
As for the supposed need to import 40% of our food from Europe exactly where have I only got the choice of buying Euro supplied meat and veg etc.As opposed to just about every food product I need and buy is Brit produced with Brit producers rightly moaning about needless foreign imports and wanting an even larger slice of the market.While threatening us with embargoes just because we don’t want to submit to being ruled by the EU Federal government and prefer to run our own affairs doesn’t fit the definition of a ‘trading partner’ at all.More like an aggressive undemocratic anti nation state bullying rogue element intent on imposing its will across Europe which in any sensible situation would be treated as such.Including the arrest of its quisling fifth column within from Heath to May on the orders of the Head of State who is supposed to be ultimately responsible for the defence of the realm from takeover by a foreign power.
In answer to which Farage decided instead that it would be a good idea to go along with Cameron’s fake referendum and fake Brexit and trust remainer May to take us out of the EU.
The world clearly isn’t big enough for we British Imperialists who thought we’d already taken down the Third Reich on a European continental battlefield that shouldn’t have been our fight… Only to succumb to those same forces, now apparently being waved through with glee by the surrender-monkey Globalists, who more than anything else - want the nations that bailed them out TWICE - from ever having any sway over them again.
The world isn’t big enough for USA-UK “Special Relationship Empire” vs this Fourth Reich.
To leave the EU, - we will have to destroy the EU as a political entity.
The EU would rather see it’s own citizens suffer with imported unemployment meanwhile, palming off as much of these weaponized people traffic onto their enemies in Blightly as possible.
The EU is influencing our elections so that we’ll end up “split” on all future polls, and no majority government again.
It’s reaching such a point now - that if the only way I get to vote against the EU is to vote Corbyn’s Labour - then I am considering it. The clincher - would be some kind of committment from Labour where they reach out to UKIP for the extra help to get them over the line at the next election.
After the events of this week, it is clear that the current Tory leadership is firmly in the pockets of the EU.
I am losing faith in Mogg, Gove, Johnson, et al FAST - because they have failed to act in bringing down the prime minister “simply because they fear for their seats”.
welll f— the lot of 'em! This country is already trashed, so I’d rather see Corbyn complete the job than let the EU get away with the econmic blitz they’ve been pouring over us, especially since Major signed us into the “Lose your house” ERM in 1992… I remember the workforce flat out in the Pre-driving hours regulations days, working 60-84 hour weeks just to pay their mortgages that had gone up to £1500pm when their flat earnings then as now - were about £2kpm Everyone who couldn’t get overtime - saw their houses re-possessed, especially the younger, newlywed type folk, often with young kids in tow. An entire generation - MY generation - were shafted out of ever owning their own home, and gave birth to Generation Rent for their grown-up kids that followed… 
If Corbyn would care to nail his Anti-EU colours to the mast properly - rather than keep sitting on the fence, hoping he can win power without delivering Brexit - then my vote stands to be won over yet.
I always vote, and I’m sick and tired of my vote ending up being merely a “protest vote that didn’t count”. Full of optimism when for the first time in my life, voting Leave got me (I thought) on the winning side of History, only to be well and truly buggered by the EU’s political influence in our own politicans ever since, not to mention our civil servants, who are surely fraudulently drawing their salaries by this point?
It will be interesting to see what happens when Macron throws the Islamists under the bus six months before the next election… It would seem that he’ll turn on them before they get to turn on him, by not supporting his stand against Le Pen’s growing popularity meanwhile…
Winseer:
To leave the EU, - we will have to destroy the EU as a political entity.After the events of this week, it is clear that the current Tory leadership is firmly in the pockets of the EU.
If Corbyn would care to nail his Anti-EU colours to the mast properly - rather than keep sitting on the fence, hoping he can win power without delivering Brexit - then my vote stands to be won over yet.
Fistly Corbyn is no Benn,Heffer or Shore and never even got close to that calibre of sincerity and committment to the country.Just as Mogg is no Powell.Corbyn has already nailed his colours ‘properly’ to the Remain mast in the form of giving Starmer the job of shadow Brexit minister not Hoey.The idea of Brexiteers voting Corbyn as a protest vote is just as bad as trusting May to deliver Brexit if not even more naive.
The answer is clear we have to ignore and sideline the Cons by seeing them for what they really are ( exactly the same party now as that which had no place for Powell ) and in which people like Clark still have a home IE an anti nation state joke of a party just like their LibDem coalition partners.
While the only chance which Brexit has of survival is by seeing the situation for what it now is in the form of an ideological fight between Batten’s vision for the country v Starmer’s.Forget all about the pathetic LibDem type irrelevance which the Conservative Party has finally confirmed itself to be.
If the Conservatives don’t get rid of May - there won’t be any Conservatives to vote for at ALL at the next election.
The choice will be UKIP or Labour.
Interestingly, people like myself will vote UKIP because “We’re beyond caring if it lets Corbyn in”.
I’ve never voted Labour in my life, but I’m past voting tactically to prevent it now.
I didn’t perish after Blair won in 1997, so in a post-non-Brexit country - things might not be as bad under Labour again as we’re led to believe…
If Corbyn breaks this country enough - then we’ll become the poor man of Europe again, and start getting EU net GAINS instead of paying £18bn per year as we do at present.
A “reverse takeover of Europe” is also possible, should a Far Left leader rise up and take over from Corbyn in due course, giving us the “Hitler Option” if you will.
The Right’s “British Empire Revival” option, on the other hand - seems as distant as ever. 
Winseer:
The choice will be UKIP or Labour.
^ As I said this is the fight we actually need to get settled for the sake of the country.Stuff the Cons who are just an irrelevance and a nuisance there to muddy the waters using subertfuge and cause confusion among the electorate.But don’t get diverted by Corbyn.Starmer and the Blairites are the ones in control of Labour with Corbyn just acting as a front to get a few more votes in.With the Cons ideologically having far more in common with the Globalist Elitist Blairites than Batten.As we’ll probably see if/when it comes to a Lab/Con alliance to defeat any UKIP breakthrough and land slide after the next election.
I must admit that the thought had occured to me that UKIP might win the most seats, but not an overall majority - only to get trounced by a Lab/Con/Libdem/SNP/Sinn Fein coalition!
At least that would put UKIP as “Her Majesty’s Opposition” though, - so it seems still worth voting UKIP.
Let the nation’s anger decide where to direct that anger - should our “Establishment” parties pull off the outrage that I depict above. 
Hitler informed of Jacob Rees-Mogg submitting a letter…warning the subtitles in the vid contain rude words.
Thee’s an interview with Farage in the Sunday Times today, in which he claims he’s not interested in leading UKIP again (don’t know if it’s true or not as I only read the headline).
But does UKIP actually have a leader, or indeed any functioning party machine?
GasGas:
Thee’s an interview with Farage in the Sunday Times today, in which he claims he’s not interested in leading UKIP again (don’t know if it’s true or not as I only read the headline).But does UKIP actually have a leader, or indeed any functioning party machine?
Here is a link to the party machine.
amazon.co.uk/AMOS-Machine-P … B00S87E59Y
But that image has been modified. The bubbles in the image appear colourless. In real life they are a cheerful range of rainbow colours.
We are so sorry to disappoint any potential vot… uummm…
