tofer:
… at ours you go out on your route and if you have to reduce you have to reduce simple as. They don’t tend to plan you less than 12 off but if you have a long day the one day for whatever reason then it means a reduced rest. To be fair if you tell them you’re too tired to have a nine off they will do their best to change it.
That seems a very reasonable way of doing things - a bit of give and take 
Remind them driving is driving, which includes the drive home.
zaax:
Remind them driving is driving, which includes the drive home.
What is that supposed to mean? the drive home in your car is not included in the EC regs 
Wheel Nut:
zaax:
Remind them driving is driving, which includes the drive home.What is that supposed to mean? the drive home in your car is not included in the EC regs
He has a point though - the drive from base to home still requires the same concentration as the driving done for the job
No point in making it back to bsae and then being too tired to drive home
Reduction in daily or weekly rest is at drivers discretion and the drivers discretion ONLY !
No court in the land would back up your company on this .
zaax:
Remind them driving is driving, which includes the drive home.
When I finish work I have a 25 mile drive, along country lanes, home. This can take between 45 and 60 minutes.
If I have a nine hour rest then the maximum sleep I can get is about five hours.
It is another one of those grey areas that should be clarified, ie it is drivers choice. Either that or eleven hours every day, then fifteen hour days would have to be abolished.
My problem with some of these later posts would actually stop drivers getting home, the rules are flexible now, too much rigidity would have drivers sleeping in their cars or parking an hour from home on a weekend.
Neil Hobbs did a simplified version of the regulations and then asking what should be changed, at the end of an eighteen or twenty page discussion it was decided they are fine as they are and should be left alone.
The simplified version was actually the 561/2006 regulations as they are written, just in a different way.
Wheel Nut:
My problem with some of these later posts would actually stop drivers getting home, the rules are flexible now, too much rigidity would have drivers sleeping in their cars or parking an hour from home on a weekend.Neil Hobbs did a simplified version of the regulations and then asking what should be changed, at the end of an eighteen or twenty page discussion it was decided they are fine as they are and should be left alone.
The simplified version was actually the 561/2006 regulations as they are written, just in a different way.
I agree, but what is meant for the benefit of one, ie the driver, can be abused by the other, ie the employer.
Whatever rules are made will never be 100% satisfactory, but a bit of give and take always helps oil the wheels
I have put the same question to VOSA what does anyone think of their response?:
" I can confirm that there is nothing in the drivers hours regulations that
states that a daily rest reduction can ONLY be made at a drivers
discretion. Therefore your employers are able to REQUEST that you reduce
your rest to 9 hours up to three times per week."
The whole thing is that it’s nowhere black and white written if an employer can or can’t reduce your weekend or daily rest.
But I still waiting on the first person who comes for a job and states clearly that he won’t reduce his daily or weekly rest, if you think the way as some posters do here, please let it draw up in your contract that you never will reduce you rest…simple as that. 
When you get the argument you have a contract to fall back on!
If you let people work only 10hours a day, they moan they cannot make the money, if you ask them to reduce their weekly/daily rest they moan they a tired.
You cannot win, either way.
This is Transport, and demands change everyday, some times a couple a times a day, so you need flexibility.
Many companies will not employ at this moment because the market is very unstable, so they want to see it on a little longer, if the future the demand keeps groing and stabilise, they will employ (overtime is VERY expensive, but gives flexibility)
You could employ somebody extra, and avoid to ask drivers to reduce their rest, but are the same drivers willing to go back to 35 hours when it get quiet again?
So that this extra person also can get paid? My experience says no on that.
As I said before on here, if you look for an 08.00-17:00 job, never work in a pub, a restaurant or be a truck driver.
Fostar:
I have put the same question to VOSA what does anyone think of their response?:" I can confirm that there is nothing in the drivers hours regulations that
states that a daily rest reduction can ONLY be made at a drivers
discretion. Therefore your employers are able to REQUEST that you reduce
your rest to 9 hours up to three times per week."
Hi Fostar, are you quite sure that you have quoted the VOSA person accurately?
dieseldave:
Fostar:
I have put the same question to VOSA what does anyone think of their response?:" I can confirm that there is nothing in the drivers hours regulations that
states that a daily rest reduction can ONLY be made at a drivers
discretion. Therefore your employers are able to REQUEST that you reduce
your rest to 9 hours up to three times per week."Hi Fostar, are you quite sure that you have quoted the VOSA person accurately?
Minimum Daily Rest: Normally 11 consecutive hours.
Rest periods can be taken in a vehicle if that vehicle has a bunk and is stationary.
Reduced Daily Rest: 9 hours up to 3 times in a week.
Split Daily Rest: 12 hour rest period may be taken in two periods:
First period must be at least 3 hours.
Second period must be at least 9 hours.
Weekly Rest Periods: Within six 24 hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period, a driver will extend a daily rest period into either; a regular weekly rest period of at least 45 hours, or a reduced weekly rest period of less than 45 hours but at least 24 hours.
In any two consecutive weeks, a driver shall take at least two regular weekly rest periods, or one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly rest period of at least 24 hours.
However, the reduction shall be compensated by an equivalent period of rest taken en bloc before the end of the third week following the week in question.
Rest on ferries / trains: Where a driver accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular (not less than 11 hour) daily rest period, that period may be interrupted not more than twice by other activities not exceeding one hour in total.
During that regular daily rest period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.
Double Manning: Within 30 hours of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at least 9 hours.
For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or drivers is optional, but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory.
It is the bit in red that is the problem. 
Three 9 hour rests and two 10 hours driving per week.
caledoniandream:
dieseldave:
Fostar:
I have put the same question to VOSA what does anyone think of their response?:" I can confirm that there is nothing in the drivers hours regulations that
states that a daily rest reduction can ONLY be made at a drivers
discretion. Therefore your employers are able to REQUEST that you reduce
your rest to 9 hours up to three times per week."Hi Fostar, are you quite sure that you have quoted the VOSA person accurately?
Reduced Daily Rest: 9 hours up to 3 times in a week.
Hi caledoniandream,
That’s a common mistake mate… and it’s also a mistake that I’ve made in the past. 
Here’s what Article 8(4) of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 says about it:
- A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest periods between any two weekly rest periods.
Alternatively, Artikel 8(4) Verordening (EG) nr. 561/2006
- Een bestuurder mag tussen twee wekelijkse rusttijden ten hoogste drie keer een verkorte dagelijkse rusttijd hebben.
“Between any two weekly rest periods” is not the same as “per week.”
You can see official EU bi-lingual version for yourself 
HERE
IMHO, the confusion arises from the wording of Article 6, which compared with Article 8, IS worded slightly differently and IS per week.
Article 6(1)
- The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week
Artikel 6(1)
- De dagelijkse rijtijd mag niet meer bedragen dan negen uur.
De dagelijkse rijtijd mag echter worden verlengd tot ten hoogste tien uur, doch niet meer dan twee keer in een week.
I’m shifting this to the Safety, Law and WTD forum where it will be better debated. 
I know what you are saying but can you explain what the difference between a “week” and " a period between 2 weekly rest periods" is?
They even strugle with that seee, the folowing quote :
“The definition of “week” provided in this Regulation should not prevent drivers from starting their working week on any day of the week.”
As we learned for our CPC, the week start on “Ignition time” e.g when your first work for that period start after your weekly rest.
Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but I believe there is no difference between the 2.
If you always start on thursday, than your week will run from Thursday let say 06:00hrs until the next Thursday 05:59hrs
But correct me if i am wrong.
caledoniandream:
I know what you are saying but can you explain what the difference between a “week” and " a period between 2 weekly rest periods" is?They even strugle with that seee, the folowing quote :
“The definition of “week” provided in this Regulation should not prevent drivers from starting their working week on any day of the week.”
As we learned for our CPC, the week start on “Ignition time” e.g when your first work for that period start after your weekly rest.
Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but I believe there is no difference between the 2.
If you always start on thursday, than your week will run from Thursday let say 06:00hrs until the next Thursday 05:59hrs
But correct me if i am wrong.
Sorry mate, but you’ve been badly misinformed. 
Here is the definition of “a week.”
Article / Artikel 4(i)
GB = “a week” means the period of time between 00.00 on Monday and 24.00 on Sunday;
NL = “week”: de periode tussen 00.00 uur op maandag en 24.00 uur op zondag;
I’m afraid it’s got nothing to do with “ignition time” or even which day a driver starts work.
I hope that helps.
caledoniandream:
I know what you are saying but can you explain what the difference between a “week” and " a period between 2 weekly rest periods" is?They even strugle with that seee, the folowing quote :
“The definition of “week” provided in this Regulation should not prevent drivers from starting their working week on any day of the week.”
As we learned for our CPC, the week start on “Ignition time” e.g when your first work for that period start after your weekly rest.
Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but I believe there is no difference between the 2.
If you always start on thursday, than your week will run from Thursday let say 06:00hrs until the next Thursday 05:59hrs
But correct me if i am wrong.
Article 4
(i) ‘a week’ means the period of time between 00.00 on
Monday and 24.00 on Sunday;
That does make a difference between weekly rest periods and weeks
Must be wrong than
Or use the wrong interpretation 
caledoniandream:
can you explain what the difference between a “week” and " a period between 2 weekly rest periods" is?
A week is
(i) “a week” means the period of time between 00.00 on Monday and 24.00 on Sunday;
and a period between 2 weekly rest periods is not or cannot be a week.