Honda set to shut swindon factory

GasGas:
Bear in mind, we had a massive global downturn in 2008-9.

Production at Honda stopped. The workers were kept on. Some took holidays, others were paid by Honda to do community work in and around Swindon. Honda was determined to keep the factory open long-term.

The situation in Europe now is not nearly as bad as it was then…yet the factory is closing■■?

The bottom half of Europe has never properly recovered from 2008/9 and now several of the major economies in northern Europe are slowing down, Germany is almost in recession and France not far behind, there is a general global downturn at the moment, Brexit has come at a good time for companies to be able to cut back and then blame Brexit, when in all probability the cut backs would have happened anyway.

@ harrawaffa, make yourself a brew, sit down and repeat back to yourself what you are saying to me, then take about 20 mins to think it through carefully :wink:

Regards
Dave Penn;

Going onto WTO rules would mean all UK produced cars would have a 9.8% price hike in the EU. (1500?)
A car from Japan will in the future have no tariff but would cost maybe a couple of hundred quid to transport.
It will be cheaper to produce Honda in Japan and pay transportation in the future.
The cheapest option for Honda would have been UK remaining in the EU, or at least a garanteed soft Brexit: no tariffs and no transport costs. But we aren’t giving them that choice.

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davepenn54:
Need to check yer fact’s gas gas, Honda have just put out a statement claiming the threat to the Swindon Factory is due to the downturn of demand for all vehicles in Europe and problems in the Eurozone, so unless Honda senior management are lying through their teeth, I’d say it hasn’t got a flying fxxx to do with leaving the EU but more about the EU MAFIA’s restrictive practices and need to control everything and everyone within the cartel.

Regards
Dave Penn;

To be fair, I don’t think the Honda statement is out until tomorrow.

But the local pro-Brexit Tory MP has said what you just said.

davepenn54:
@ harrawaffa, make yourself a brew, sit down and repeat back to yourself what you are saying to me, then take about 20 mins to think it through carefully :wink:

Regards
Dave Penn;

They’re off because they no longer need us as a way to avoid tariffs. We’re leaving the EU and they’ve gone and sorted another way. Simple. We’re surplus to requirement now.

Well none of this would ever had happened if cyclist’s had been banned from ‘A’ roads, that was the start of the slippery slope, we have never recovered from that :open_mouth: :sunglasses:

Regards
Dave Penn;

Franglais:
Going onto WTO rules would mean all UK produced cars would have a 9.8% price hike in the EU. (1500?)
A car from Japan will in the future have no tariff but would cost maybe a couple of hundred quid to transport.
It will be cheaper to produce Honda in Japan and pay transportation in the future.
The cheapest option for Honda would have been UK remaining in the EU, or at least a garanteed soft Brexit: no tariffs and no transport costs. But we aren’t giving them that choice.

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Or they are consolidating plant capacity in Japan, it’s the price countries pay for allowing their own major brands to be sold and pandering to foreign global companies to make their economy work, I believe that many of the cars produced in Swindon are destined for markets outside the EU. Although I doubt Brexit, especially the uncertainty, is helping.

Nothing to do with Brexit .

harrawaffa:

davepenn54:
@ harrawaffa, make yourself a brew, sit down and repeat back to yourself what you are saying to me, then take about 20 mins to think it through carefully :wink:

Regards
Dave Penn;

They’re off because they no longer need us as a way to avoid tariffs. We’re leaving the EU and they’ve gone and sorted another way. Simple. We’re surplus to requirement now.

But would this have happened anyway, once a free trade agreement was done and a downturn meant there was too much manufacturing capacity?

Before Brexit raised its ugly head, how many times did companies move their manufacturing from the UK when they found they could produce goods cheaper in other countries, as they either joined the EU or had signed free trade deals?

Why have we continued to vote in successive governments who have allowed their Free Trade policies to sell off household family named to global competition, who when the ■■■■ hits the fan, have no loyalty to the UK, but some loyalty to their own countries?

muckles:

Franglais:
Going onto WTO rules would mean all UK produced cars would have a 9.8% price hike in the EU. (1500?)
A car from Japan will in the future have no tariff but would cost maybe a couple of hundred quid to transport.
It will be cheaper to produce Honda in Japan and pay transportation in the future.
The cheapest option for Honda would have been UK remaining in the EU, or at least a garanteed soft Brexit: no tariffs and no transport costs. But we aren’t giving them that choice.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Or they are consolidating plant capacity in Japan, it’s the price countries pay for allowing their own major brands to be sold and pandering to foreign global companies to make their economy work, I believe that many of the cars produced in Swindon are destined for markets outside the EU. Although I doubt Brexit, especially the uncertainty, is helping.

I think you’re correct that some Swindon made Hondas end up in the USA etc.
And yes it’s probably not only Brexit, causing this but the effect can’t be written off.

If/when trade upcycles again will they look to a European factory again?
If so it’ll be in the EU for sure, not in an isolated small country at it’s edges.

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GasGas:
I don’t see what the EU turning on diesel has to do with Honda closing its UK factory…Honda has always been pro-petrol and well placed to produce petrol cars.

Here’s what happened, with no political spin.

The Japanese car makers faced tariff barriers exporting to the EU.

To get under the barriers, they needed to build cars in the EU .

The UK was the obvious choice: English being the most widely-spoken western language in Japan.

On top of this, the UK courted the Japanese to open factories in the UK in places where there was a base of skilled but unemployed workers: Swindon (ex railways), Sunderland (ex shipyard) and Derbyshire (ex miners).

The Japanese companies involved always regarded the UK as being their base in the EU.

Now the EU (excluding the UK) and Japan have a free-trade agreement so product can flow seamlessly between the Japan and the EU.

The Uk had decided to leave the EU, and can’t agree with itself under what terms. A few weeks ago, the Japanese ambassador explained very clearly that this was going to call the future of Japan’s investment in the UK into question.

No one should be surprised by this.

The people of Swindon and Wiltshire voted Leave.

If that included Honda workers, they voted to leave their jobs.

More fools them.

Here’s what really happened as you’ve said yourself but being a Fedralist you’re obviously too deaf and blind to understand your own statements.

Free trade agreement between the Japs and the EU so obviously no more need to ‘assemble’ cars in the stinking self proclaimed Federation of the EU to avoid the no longer existent tariff barriers.So as a non EU member state the UK isn’t part of the agreement and if the Japs want to flog their crap tin cans here then,unlike Euroland,we can still hit the Oriental tossers with tariff barriers just as before with the bonus that we can also now hit the Germans and the French producers too. :smiley: :wink: All to the obvious benefit of uk car production.

Also didn’t hear any remainers moaning about the closure and transfer to Germany of Ford and GM production among other massive car industry job losses caused by the open door import regime which our EU membership opened up and handed our German competitors on a plate.

On that note remind us which EU state obviously now gets the ‘benefit’ of all this Jap car assembly operation transferred from UK going by your typical Federalist bs.Oh wait the Japs don’t need to produce any cars at all in Euroland now for the reasons you’ve given yourself being a free trade agreement between the EU and Japan nothing to do with UK which is obviously now in a better position in not being subject to the EU free trade agreement as it would have been ‘if’ we’d have remained a member of the stinking EU pile. :unamused:

Which just now leaves the question of a governement with the patriotism and the balls to deliver Brexit and to tell the Japs that any cars sold here will be subject to increased tariffs over those previously imposed by the EU while all US imports will have tariffs and EU type approval removed.

Franglais:

muckles:

Franglais:
Going onto WTO rules would mean all UK produced cars would have a 9.8% price hike in the EU. (1500?)
A car from Japan will in the future have no tariff but would cost maybe a couple of hundred quid to transport.
It will be cheaper to produce Honda in Japan and pay transportation in the future.
The cheapest option for Honda would have been UK remaining in the EU, or at least a garanteed soft Brexit: no tariffs and no transport costs. But we aren’t giving them that choice.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Or they are consolidating plant capacity in Japan, it’s the price countries pay for allowing their own major brands to be sold and pandering to foreign global companies to make their economy work, I believe that many of the cars produced in Swindon are destined for markets outside the EU. Although I doubt Brexit, especially the uncertainty, is helping.

I think you’re correct that some Swindon made Hondas end up in the USA etc.
And yes it’s probably not only Brexit, causing this but the effect can’t be written off.

If/when trade upcycles again will they look to a European factory again?
If so it’ll be in the EU for sure, not in an isolated small country at it’s edges.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Not sure if Japan would need to open a new European factory, they’ve had a stagnant economy for years, so plenty of capacity within the country and no worries about tariffs, plus they have the emerging markets and I would say they’d be more likely to look for sites to make cars for export to China.

“This consolidation is made easier by the new EU-Japan trade deal which will allow Honda to produce their cars in Japan and import them into the EU, rather than produce the cars in Europe,” said Mr Tomlinson. Honda exports about half its Swindon-made cars to the US.

“Honda have been very clear: this decision has been made because of global trends and is not related to Brexit,” Mr Tomlinson said. “The Turkey factory will also close as all European market production is being consolidated to Japan, where the company is based.”

Although I don’t beleive this has a great deal to do with Brexit, I would say Brexit and the uncertainty, would make it easier for companies to make the decision to close a factory.

There was once a time where we could veto any trade deal as part of the EU if it would damage anything at home - as can any other country under the same circumstances - which would result in restrictions or amendments to any free trade arrangement.

That option has been lost. That option could’ve been handy… so while it’s not the result directly of Brexit it could’ve been mitigated in the first place by having a say I’ve the trade agreement.

Maybe Austin can take over the Swindon plant to build the Montego of the future and fill the gap?

Franglais:
I think you’re correct that some Swindon made Hondas end up in the USA etc.
And yes it’s probably not only Brexit, causing this but the effect can’t be written off.

If/when trade upcycles again will they look to a European factory again?
If so it’ll be in the EU for sure, not in an isolated small country at it’s edges

Oh wait let’s get this right.We supposedly have to compromise sovereignty and pay a fortune in contributions.On the basis that it’s supposedly good for us because the French work ethic is far more civilised than the Japanese one and Europe is one big happy trading family.But the Japs keep their sovereignty and don’t pay anything into the EU but also get free open access to the EU single market just the same.Bearing in mind that Euroland buys a lot more Jap crap than British motors anyway.Which is good for us how :unamused: :open_mouth:

It’s clear enough what this is all about and it has more to do with the historic unholy German/Japanese alliance than the stinking EU being good for us.

toonsy:
There was once a time where we could veto any trade deal as part of the EU if it would damage anything at home - as can any other country under the same circumstances - which would result in restrictions or amendments to any free trade arrangement.

That option has been lost.

Maybe Austin can take over the Swindon plant to build the Montego of the future and fill the gap?

Brexit or not we couldn’t in future agreements as the ECJ said that it can mostly be done with Qualified Majority Voting, becasue of problems with getting the Singapore deal done and historic problems getting CETA through, thus stopping national assemblies stalling progress on negotiations.

And as for the EU-Japan agreement, we are still in the EU and I’m sure the negotiations took sometime and our government didn’t veto it or even protest about lifting tariffs on cars imports. I’m sure they felt that the benefits to the Financial services sector far outweighed the loss of a car factory.

GasGas:
Bear in mind, we had a massive global downturn in 2008-9.

Production at Honda stopped. The workers were kept on. Some took holidays, others were paid by Honda to do community work in and around Swindon. Honda was determined to keep the factory open long-term.

The situation in Europe now is not nearly as bad as it was then…yet the factory is closing■■?

And so is the Honda Factory in Turkey.Wich has a customs union with the EU.So why is that shutting also?.

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One more little fly in the UK/Japanese ointment is the letter from Hunt & Fox to the Japanese Gov. It seems the UK Brexiteers were accusing the Japanese of being tardy in signing a trade deal with us. The Japanese have been rather busy working in a deal with our bigger EU neighbour. How H&F could accuse anyone of being badly organised, from their position in the current shambles of a Gov without exploding with irony is beyond me!

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Had we not voted Brexit, we would have had a seat at the EU - Japan negotiations.

The tariffs are being phased out, not abolished overnight.

The Uk has shown its inexperience and arrogance on the international stage since Brexit…see the talks with China cancelled after Gavin (Battle Picture Weekly) Williamson said he was going to sent the UK’s new aircraft carrier to the South China Sea to show the little yellow men what a man he was.

No doubt he saw a lucrative market for opium in China, once the Chinese navy was sunk.

GasGas:
Had we not voted Brexit, we would have had a seat at the EU - Japan negotiations.

The negotiations started in 2013 and concluded in 2017, so for most of that time we hadn’t been on the Brexit trail and a full member of the EU

GasGas:
The tariffs are being phased out, not abolished overnight.

As is the Factory.

GasGas:
The Uk has shown its inexperience and arrogance on the international stage since Brexit…see the talks with China cancelled after Gavin (Battle Picture Weekly) Williamson said he was going to sent the UK’s new aircraft carrier to the South China Sea to show the little yellow men what a man he was.

No doubt he saw a lucrative market for opium in China, once the Chinese navy was sunk.

Yep can’t disagree there, we have a right bunch of ■■■■■ in charge who are not living in the real World, are far to much in the pocket of interests of others and not working as representatives of the people that give them the power.

Big businesses love Brexit.
They want it delayed as long as possible as its a handy excuse for them