Hi Dennis, congratulations on the 11th anniversary of this particular blog. In an effort to find the answer, I have been looking in my little black book, and, at a number of bits of paper out of my loft. So as you are not under any apprehensions, I will confirm that I returned to Patricroft at the start of 1977 reporting to Dion Houghton the Sales Director. As such, Guy Motors were on my radar regarding the Guy Victory chassis, which our customers in HKG, Jamaica, Kenya, Malawi and South Africa took in large numbers until Guy’s demise in August 1982. All these chassis used the 6LXB engines. My paperwork starts with the 1978 figures, I assume I must have been abroad at the point where “my” bits of paper with the sales 1977 totals did not reach me. In the early part of the '70’s I was with the well known American (4 Stroke) engine people and the OEM just down the road from you, so what went on specifically sales wise at Patricroft was unknown to me.
Picking up the 6lxb sales to Guy Motors for the Victory chassis the Figures for '78 to '81 are as follows:- 474,651, 974, 1081. No 8LXB’s noted.
I suspect early '70’s sales had been around the 400/450 figure, based on what i found already working in these territories that had gone into service from the early 70’s.
The uplift in the last three years was down to the impending South African Atlantis engine scheme coming on stream in 1981. only locally manufactured engines could be used under threat of excessively high tariff barriers for imported engines. You can see from our sales what our customers thought of the Merc. engine that would substitute for any imported units of equivalent power.
Gardner ,at that time, still sold engines to OEM’s by “Lines”, i.e. by number of cylinders. E.g. say ERF wanted to buy 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, or 8 cylinder engines then they would have to decide the mix of types, based on the total no. of lines they had been given. I cannot see that the OEM in question, Guy, would opt to buy an 8LXB at that time due to demand for the 6’LXB chassis. Any thoughts of someone having float engines lying around at that time, just in case, is risible. 3 Day week - remember! (You get 4x6’s for 3x 8’s)
As no one has come up with positive photos of the mythical beast all I can suggest is that I try to find out if the original Master QL - Quantity List, books are in a Museum somewhere awaiting discovery. P.S. If Boris sanctions a Jab for me we might get an early answer!!! Regards, Peter
5Valve:
Gardner ,at that time, still sold engines to OEM’s by “Lines”, i.e. by number of cylinders. E.g. say ERF wanted to buy 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, or 8 cylinder engines then they would have to decide the mix of types, based on the total no. of lines they had been given. I cannot see that the OEM in question, Guy, would opt to buy an 8LXB at that time due to demand for the 6’LXB chassis. Any thoughts of someone having float engines lying around at that time, just in case, is risible. 3 Day week - remember! (You get 4x6’s for 3x 8’s)
What happened in the case of ‘non OEM’ orders.Or even a boat builder for that matter ?.
Would the same rationing policy apply ?.
So Guy says we could do an 8LXB powered option but we’ll have to fit it with one of the slave ■■■■■■■ that we’ve put by not the Gardner.Then you can retro fit the 8 LXB as and when you can order one non OEM and return the slave ■■■■■■■ to us.
5Valve:
Hi Dennis, congratulations on the 11th anniversary of this particular blog. In an effort to find the answer, I have been looking in my little black book, and, at a number of bits of paper out of my loft. So as you are not under any apprehensions, I will confirm that I returned to Patricroft at the start of 1977 reporting to Dion Houghton the Sales Director. As such, Guy Motors were on my radar regarding the Guy Victory chassis, which our customers in HKG, Jamaica, Kenya, Malawi and South Africa took in large numbers until Guy’s demise in August 1982. All these chassis used the 6LXB engines. My paperwork starts with the 1978 figures, I assume I must have been abroad at the point where “my” bits of paper with the sales 1977 totals did not reach me. In the early part of the '70’s I was with the well known American (4 Stroke) engine people and the OEM just down the road from you, so what went on specifically sales wise at Patricroft was unknown to me.
Picking up the 6lxb sales to Guy Motors for the Victory chassis the Figures for '78 to '81 are as follows:- 474,651, 974, 1081. No 8LXB’s noted.
I suspect early '70’s sales had been around the 400/450 figure, based on what i found already working in these territories that had gone into service from the early 70’s.
The uplift in the last three years was down to the impending South African Atlantis engine scheme coming on stream in 1981. only locally manufactured engines could be used under threat of excessively high tariff barriers for imported engines. You can see from our sales what our customers thought of the Merc. engine that would substitute for any imported units of equivalent power.
Gardner ,at that time, still sold engines to OEM’s by “Lines”, i.e. by number of cylinders. E.g. say ERF wanted to buy 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, or 8 cylinder engines then they would have to decide the mix of types, based on the total no. of lines they had been given. I cannot see that the OEM in question, Guy, would opt to buy an 8LXB at that time due to demand for the 6’LXB chassis. Any thoughts of someone having float engines lying around at that time, just in case, is risible. 3 Day week - remember! (You get 4x6’s for 3x 8’s)
As no one has come up with positive photos of the mythical beast all I can suggest is that I try to find out if the original Master QL - Quantity List, books are in a Museum somewhere awaiting discovery. P.S. If Boris sanctions a Jab for me we might get an early answer!!! Regards, Peter
That should give the pot a nice long stir!!! get the tin hats out. Regards Kev.
5Valve:
Hi Dennis, congratulations on the 11th anniversary of this particular blog. In an effort to find the answer, I have been looking in my little black book, and, at a number of bits of paper out of my loft. So as you are not under any apprehensions, I will confirm that I returned to Patricroft at the start of 1977 reporting to Dion Houghton the Sales Director. As such, Guy Motors were on my radar regarding the Guy Victory chassis, which our customers in HKG, Jamaica, Kenya, Malawi and South Africa took in large numbers until Guy’s demise in August 1982. All these chassis used the 6LXB engines. My paperwork starts with the 1978 figures, I assume I must have been abroad at the point where “my” bits of paper with the sales 1977 totals did not reach me. In the early part of the '70’s I was with the well known American (4 Stroke) engine people and the OEM just down the road from you, so what went on specifically sales wise at Patricroft was unknown to me.
Picking up the 6lxb sales to Guy Motors for the Victory chassis the Figures for '78 to '81 are as follows:- 474,651, 974, 1081. No 8LXB’s noted.
I suspect early '70’s sales had been around the 400/450 figure, based on what i found already working in these territories that had gone into service from the early 70’s.
The uplift in the last three years was down to the impending South African Atlantis engine scheme coming on stream in 1981. only locally manufactured engines could be used under threat of excessively high tariff barriers for imported engines. You can see from our sales what our customers thought of the Merc. engine that would substitute for any imported units of equivalent power.
Gardner ,at that time, still sold engines to OEM’s by “Lines”, i.e. by number of cylinders. E.g. say ERF wanted to buy 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, or 8 cylinder engines then they would have to decide the mix of types, based on the total no. of lines they had been given. I cannot see that the OEM in question, Guy, would opt to buy an 8LXB at that time due to demand for the 6’LXB chassis. Any thoughts of someone having float engines lying around at that time, just in case, is risible. 3 Day week - remember! (You get 4x6’s for 3x 8’s)
As no one has come up with positive photos of the mythical beast all I can suggest is that I try to find out if the original Master QL - Quantity List, books are in a Museum somewhere awaiting discovery. P.S. If Boris sanctions a Jab for me we might get an early answer!!! Regards, Peter
That should give the pot a nice long stir!!! get the tin hats out. Regards Kev.
The answer to that Gardner engine rationing policy might be interesting.
Assuming it didn’t apply to ‘outside’ ‘non OEM’ orders that could actually strengthen Ro’s etc case.
Doubt if they’d have wanted to clog up the dealer network or customer’s maintenance facilities with engine retro fits.When they could just put it back down the line to remove the slave ■■■■■■■ and then retro fit the 8 LXB obtained by clandestine methods.
That would obviously be a factory ordered and produced 8 LXB Big J.
( Sorry Bewick )
Are you people still going on about Guys with 240 gardners, told you already, there were plenty of them at Maddiston and Glasgow, all came direct from factory mostly 74 and 75. Drove them, liked them.
loader8:
Are you people still going on about Guys with 240 gardners, told you already, there were plenty of them at Maddiston and Glasgow, all came direct from factory mostly 74 and 75. Drove them, liked them.
Well, according to some posters on here, just because you (a) saw plenty and (b) drove some doesn’t mean that they actually really existed! I’m a believer though.
loader8:
Are you people still going on about Guys with 240 gardners, told you already, there were plenty of them at Maddiston and Glasgow, all came direct from factory mostly 74 and 75. Drove them, liked them.
loader8:
Are you people still going on about Guys with 240 gardners, told you already, there were plenty of them at Maddiston and Glasgow, all came direct from factory mostly 74 and 75. Drove them, liked them.
Well, according to some posters on here, just because you (a) saw plenty and (b) drove some doesn’t mean that they actually really existed! I’m a believer though.
Pete.
To be fair the case against was/is mainly based on the question of the 8LXB supply situation as it applied to Guy.
Don’t think there can be any an argument that the 8LXB ticked all the boxes from sufficient output to get the job done combined with superior running costs to just about everything else in the day.If all is to be believed.
That advantage obviously increasing with utilisation.Something along the lines of a double shifted day and night trunking operation.
Surely then fitting the right motor in the best budget buy chassis available would have been logical.
It’s the latter question where Bewick’s case seems to founder if anywhere.
He seems to be saying that not only was the supply issue insurmountable the fleet spec poverty chassis wouldn’t have warranted the 8LXB engine option ?.
Either way the documented numbers of those produced suggest that Bewick isn’t a million miles away from the truth regardless.
loader8:
Are you people still going on about Guys with 240 gardners, told you already, there were plenty of them at Maddiston and Glasgow, all came direct from factory mostly 74 and 75. Drove them, liked them.
Well, according to some posters on here, just because you (a) saw plenty and (b) drove some doesn’t mean that they actually really existed! I’m a believer though.
Pete.
Could be parallel universes that have come together. Is that technically possible?
Nah, there’s been some brilliant humour and marvelous wit, even a bit of slapstick from Carryfast.
I’ve never seen a Guy in the flesh and only a couple of Gardners, at historic truck shows.
Star down under.:
Nah, there’s been some brilliant humour and marvelous wit, even a bit of slapstick from Carryfast.
I’ve never seen a Guy in the flesh and only a couple of Gardners, at historic truck shows.
Well SDU I reckon you have just as good a chance of clocking a Big J 8 LXB ( with Rolf Harris at the wheel and Skippy riding “shot gun”) Down Under as there is in the UK of “clocking” Elvis & Hitler driving one ! Cheers Bewick.
Star down under.:
Nah, there’s been some brilliant humour and marvelous wit, even a bit of slapstick from Carryfast.
I’ve never seen a Guy in the flesh and only a couple of Gardners, at historic truck shows.
Well SDU I reckon you have just as good a chance of clocking a Big J 8 LXB ( with Rolf Harris at the wheel and Skippy riding “shot gun”) Down Under as there is in the UK of “clocking” Elvis & Hitler driving one ! Cheers Bewick.
Funny you should say that, I am sure the bloke down our local chippy had one back in the day.
Star down under.:
Nah, there’s been some brilliant humour and marvelous wit, even a bit of slapstick from Carryfast.
I’ve never seen a Guy in the flesh and only a couple of Gardners, at historic truck shows.
Well SDU I reckon you have just as good a chance of clocking a Big J 8 LXB ( with Rolf Harris at the wheel and Skippy riding “shot gun”) Down Under as there is in the UK of “clocking” Elvis & Hitler driving one ! Cheers Bewick.
Sounds like a missed opportunity of Leyland’s publicity dept to me.
Freddy Star would have met the conditions for the UK spec version and Rolf and Skippy double manned sounds ok so long as Rolf was singing tie me kangaroo down.
So the Oz export order would have been number 40 of the production run obviously less engine supply problems in CKD form.
pete 359:
hi dennis
i like everyone else has come across big j’s with several different types of ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and gardner’s,but i personally have never seen one with the 8 cylinder 240! apart from the one parked outside elvis’s chipshop in grimsby!
regards andrew
pete 359:
hi dennis
i like everyone else has come across big j’s with several different types of ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and gardner’s,but i personally have never seen one with the 8 cylinder 240! apart from the one parked outside elvis’s chipshop in grimsby!
regards andrew
Ah! was this the same Chippy Dave ?
Elvis owned a chain of chippies.Like Harry Ramsden.
Makes sense to me.Something cheap that will still run after a few million miles and can still pull a load of spuds or a reefer full of fish around the country own account.Bought used from SoM for a fiver and bag of chips.
)
