Carryfast:
It’s probably fair to say that the fact there were such beasts has been proved.But they weren’t made by the factory.Although the factory did put the idea out there and some ran with it as after market modifications as engines became available by whatever route for conversion from ■■■■■■■ ?.Such conversions would had to have been made as early as possible in the vehicle’s service life to make it worth doing.
Did Valkerie’s sheets show factory-fitted 8LXBs?
Otherwise, good points. As for conversions being made as early as possible, I am reminded of NGCs being re-gearboxed at dealership level/stage, so that effectively they rolled off the production line with, say a 9-sp Fuller and was equipped with a 13-sp one by the dealership to meet customer needs.
So in the case of Guy, would a Big-J supplied brand-new to a customer fitted with an 8LXB by a Guy (Leyland) accredited dealer not count as a bone fide vehicle; as opposed to a unit that’s been re-fitted with a bigger engine after a year in service? It’s a fine distinction, but it could be the answer to this thread’s agonisations - the holy grail, as 'twere! Ro
^ I’d guess possibly a combination of Approved Dealer retro fit for some combined with others maybe converted a bit later.As Bewick has said the supply of Gardner engines was so unpredictable that it would have paralysed Guys production schedules if they tried to put that spec down the line to customer order.Which leaves the finer points of the exact timing of conversions and any returns policy.I’d guess it wouldn’t have been unheard of or impossible to get rid of low mileage ■■■■■■■ motors either way.
Do you know what the exact procedure was regarding the return and reuse of the unwanted 9 speeds ?.It might provide an idea regarding similar in the case of dealer retrofit ■■■■■■■ to 8LXB Big J conversions.
Maybe Bewick could provide an idea of the expected running cost savings of such a conversion done early in its service life.
When we had our first Sed Ak 400 at Tilcon, a P Reg one with 6LXB Gardner, it came fitted with the David Brown six speed gearbox but within a short space of time it went back (presumably to the factory?) and returned with the DB eight speed range change box fitted. Why this was done I have no idea, or who paid for it? Presumably it was a factory recall but I never did know the reason behind it, I will have to ask Maurice Fearn who was the driver at the time as he should know. Then what happened to the original six speed box(es), were they then resold? Did this sort of thing happen a lot regarding operators wanting a change of engine/gearbox etc after they had taken delivery?
pete smith:
Please don’t shoot the messenger Dennis, got sent it as I’m daft enough to post it.
I would say its a bit of badge engineering though?
Defo Pete !! it’s a wonder that Driver hadn’t stuck a ■■■■■■■ and a RR badge on the grille as well !! Then again it could have had the AEC 505 engine under the bonnet !! Cheers Dennis.
pete smith:
Please don’t shoot the messenger Dennis, got sent it as I’m daft enough to post it.
I would say its a bit of badge engineering though?
Defo Pete !! it’s a wonder that Driver hadn’t stuck a ■■■■■■■ and a RR badge on the grille as well !! Then again it could have had the AEC 505 engine under the bonnet !! Cheers Dennis.
Or even a Scania V8 judging by some comments on here!
pete smith:
Please don’t shoot the messenger Dennis, got sent it as I’m daft enough to post it.
I would say its a bit of badge engineering though?
Defo Pete !! it’s a wonder that Driver hadn’t stuck a ■■■■■■■ and a RR badge on the grille as well !! Then again it could have had the AEC 505 engine under the bonnet !! Cheers Dennis.
Or even a Scania V8 judging by some comments on here!
Plus a couple of Knights Heads as well and a Michelin Man !! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Defo Pete !! it’s a wonder that Driver hadn’t stuck a ■■■■■■■ and a RR badge on the grille as well !! Then again it could have had the AEC 505 engine under the bonnet !! Cheers Dennis.
Or even a Scania V8 judging by some comments on here!
In for a penny in for a pound he might as well have gone for the V8 badge.About as believable as the TIR curtainsider.
Bewick:
“Bucket on front towing eye” this Driver of the ERF used to get some stick about hanging a bucket on the unit !!
0
Dennis the bucket on the tow eye, this was a common sight on International trucks in the past but as I said way back on the DIT thread until one of ours found someone had made a deposit in it overnight but caused a laugh at the time Buzzer
Bewick:
I only deal in hard PROVABLE facts a discipline which is completely devoid on this interminable thread ! Cheers Dennis.
It’s probably fair to say that the fact there were such beasts has been proved.But they weren’t made by the factory.Although the factory did put the idea out there and some ran with it as after market modifications as engines became available by whatever route for conversion from ■■■■■■■ ?.Such conversions would had to have been made as early as possible in the vehicle’s service life to make it worth doing.
Did Valkerie’s sheets show factory-fitted 8LXBs?
Otherwise, good points. As for conversions being made as early as possible, I am reminded of NGCs being re-gearboxed at dealership level/stage, so that effectively they rolled off the production line with, say a 9-sp Fuller and was equipped with a 13-sp one by the dealership to meet customer needs.
So in the case of Guy, would a Big-J supplied brand-new to a customer fitted with an 8LXB by a Guy (Leyland) accredited dealer not count as a bone fide vehicle; as opposed to a unit that’s been re-fitted with a bigger engine after a year in service? It’s a fine distinction, but it could be the answer to this thread’s agonisations - the holy grail, as 'twere! Ro
To provide additional clarification,the 240Percy powered Big J that I collected from SoM Newton le Willows was a brand new vehicle delivered overnight from Maddiston.
Bewick:
I only deal in hard PROVABLE facts a discipline which is completely devoid on this interminable thread ! Cheers Dennis.
It’s probably fair to say that the fact there were such beasts has been proved.But they weren’t made by the factory.Although the factory did put the idea out there and some ran with it as after market modifications as engines became available by whatever route for conversion from ■■■■■■■ ?.Such conversions would had to have been made as early as possible in the vehicle’s service life to make it worth doing.
Did Valkerie’s sheets show factory-fitted 8LXBs?
Otherwise, good points. As for conversions being made as early as possible, I am reminded of NGCs being re-gearboxed at dealership level/stage, so that effectively they rolled off the production line with, say a 9-sp Fuller and was equipped with a 13-sp one by the dealership to meet customer needs.
So in the case of Guy, would a Big-J supplied brand-new to a customer fitted with an 8LXB by a Guy (Leyland) accredited dealer not count as a bone fide vehicle; as opposed to a unit that’s been re-fitted with a bigger engine after a year in service? It’s a fine distinction, but it could be the answer to this thread’s agonisations - the holy grail, as 'twere! Ro
To provide additional clarification,the 240Percy powered Big J that I collected from SoM Newton le Willows was a brand new vehicle delivered overnight from Maddiston.
David
Hiya,
Bet none of the ■■■■■■■ engined Big J drivers asked for a Gardner swap
I’d set myself away tramping until the gaffers saw sense.
ERF-NGC-European:
Did Valkerie’s sheets show factory-fitted 8LXBs?
Otherwise, good points. As for conversions being made as early as possible, I am reminded of NGCs being re-gearboxed at dealership level/stage, so that effectively they rolled off the production line with, say a 9-sp Fuller and was equipped with a 13-sp one by the dealership to meet customer needs.
So in the case of Guy, would a Big-J supplied brand-new to a customer fitted with an 8LXB by a Guy (Leyland) accredited dealer not count as a bone fide vehicle; as opposed to a unit that’s been re-fitted with a bigger engine after a year in service? It’s a fine distinction, but it could be the answer to this thread’s agonisations - the holy grail, as 'twere! Ro
To provide additional clarification,the 240Percy powered Big J that I collected from SoM Newton le Willows was a brand new vehicle delivered overnight from Maddiston.
David
If it’s an approved dealer retrofit as Robert said it would be effectively supplied as new but not built as an 8LXB at the Guy works.These things were going to be a rare beast which only would have been viable to create in a high mileage high utilisation operation and even then probably with a lot of convincing by the fleet engineer.It would have been an idea which I would definitely have agreed with being worth all the aggro v an NA ■■■■■■■ in that case.
While Bewick seems to have got a bee in his bonnet about only Atkis being worthy of the anchor.When the sums would obviously have added up v ■■■■■■■ regardless what it was put in.
So I actually think they existed and I also think I know why which is what clinches it for me.But no way were they built at the factory on Guy’s production Schedules because I also believe Bewick’s view on the Gardner engine supply situation.
It would have probably gone along the lines of those specialised customers approaching Guy with the possibility of an order and Guy saying we can probably do that but there will be a wait and it will probably be approved dealer retrofit.
Are you breathing pure Oxygen through your mask or what “CF” ? This is all bollox about chassis being supplied by GUY Motors with a.n. other engine then exchanged for an 8LXB ! absolute bollox honestly ! I have never said that there had NEVER been an 8LXB BIG J but there would never have been anymore than a handful and only then with a bit of “arm twisting” by large BIG J operators e.g. SOM . GUY’s are what became known as the “Cinderella poverty spec builder” within the Leyland Group so the possibility of them obtaining supplies of the , what was at the time, the premier heavy commercial engine in the UK i.e. The 8 LXB were practically zero ! Incidentally the 180LXB only became available in quantity after it was down rated from powering 32 ton gvw chassis to 30:5 gvw. then Guy and Seddon manufactured with the 180LXB were in plentiful supply and , of course , they were still Kosher 20 tonners ! I know 'cause I ran plenty ! PS ask Matron to alter the mixture by adding a bit of “laughing gas” to the Oxygen then maybe your posts may improve dramatically in their quality Stay Safe Mate ! Bewick.
I’ve got some magazines from the 70’s ( not ■■■■ ) mainly Truck but no commercial motors sadly, Can the commercial motor archive be searched online for a second Hand sale add of said big j ?
Bewick:
Are you breathing pure Oxygen through your mask or what “CF” ? This is all bollox about chassis being supplied by GUY Motors with a.n. other engine then exchanged for an 8LXB ! absolute bollox honestly ! I have never said that there had NEVER been an 8LXB BIG J but there would never have been anymore than a handful and only then with a bit of “arm twisting” by large BIG J operators e.g. SOM . GUY’s are what became known as the “Cinderella poverty spec builder” within the Leyland Group so the possibility of them obtaining supplies of the , what was at the time, the premier heavy commercial engine in the UK i.e. The 8 LXB were practically zero ! Incidentally the 180LXB only became available in quantity after it was down rated from powering 32 ton gvw chassis to 30:5 gvw. then Guy and Seddon manufactured with the 180LXB were in plentiful supply and , of course , they were still Kosher 20 tonners ! I know 'cause I ran plenty ! PS ask Matron to alter the mixture by adding a bit of “laughing gas” to the Oxygen then maybe your posts may improve dramatically in their quality Stay Safe Mate ! Bewick.
Blimey make your mind up.
So you agree with me that there might have been a ‘few’.
Then you agree that it would have took some arm twisting to get them to accept the order.
Then you agree that Guy getting reliable supplies of 8LXB’s was practically zero.So far so good.
So why would Guy then say fine we’ll build the thing in the factory and if it has to sit there wasting space and getting in the bleedin way of the operation while we’re waiting for Gardner to let us have a zb engine for it, that’s no problem.
As to opposed to just chuck a ■■■■■■■ in it for now and get it out of the bleedin way until Gardner will let us have a motor for it.Then get it to a dealer to swap it ASAP and return the unused ■■■■■■■■■■■■■ if they can’t supply the motor it’s still a useable truck which they can sell.
While as you say the Guy was just about the cheapest heap anyone could buy so why would they want to spend the extra on the Atki when they could put the same motor in the Guy for a lot less outlay but a bit more aggro.
Did this sort of thing happen a lot regarding operators wanting a change of engine/gearbox etc after they had taken delivery?
and sporting an 8-92 TTA. 
