Driving without due care and attention?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
21

Is there any cctv ?

Apart from the police, is anyone complaining about your manner of driving ?

Are you the only person to be reported, I appreciate you may not know this.

As default, if you go into the back of someone, YOU are always blameworthy, that is why you have been reported.

Did you say this " because I was watching the vehicle to my right I didn’t give full attention to the front hence the crash " in your police witness statement ? I am unsure as to why you would come onto a public forum stating this and then ask for advice. Inadvertently you have now damaged your position, should you have wanted to consider challenging the offence.

S.3 of the road traffic act - Careless, and inconsiderate, driving is as follows :

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

This is what the police must apply to your manner of driving to be successful in convincing the courts that you are guilty. This particular section of the road traffic act is not one that is easy to prove and the CPS are often keen to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. It is not for anyone to guide you in anyway, but in consideration of what you have said initially, it appears that such was the hard braking from the vehicle in front, for whatever happened ahead, that you were left with little option. Of course, your distance from the vehicle in front will come into question, but in isolation of other factors contributing to the accident, does that prove that you drove carelessly.

You are well within your rights, to reject any responsibility for the offence for which you have been reported and represent yourself if you are in financial difficulty. Only cctv will prove your distance from the vehicle in front, unless of course there are other witness statements that all corroborate together what your approximate distance was from the truck in front.

Had this been myself I would have challenged it without hesitation as it appears the police have used a blanket tactic to report all concerned, hence the easy option for them of a short learning course.

I most certainly would have spoken to a local solicitor and had the free consultation on the matter, but given what you have said in an open forum it may be wise to re think your position.

22

You can forget all about tailgating in lorries, unless you are prepared for the consequences when the vehicle in front stops, lorry tyres do not grip like car tyres so even with the best brakes in the whole wide world you can only stop as fast as the friction from the rubber on the road allows, in the wet the distances increase massively.

You need, and have to maintain a serious distance from the vehicle in front, many lorry drivers travel far too close to the vehicle in front, arguably you could travel closer to a lorry than a car because braking innit, but if that lorry driver has faster reactions better brakes or a different load ratio, or if he himself hits someone up the arse you’re still going to hit him.

It doesn’t matter how many lemmings with 5 minutes to live nip into your braking space, let them, they’re the ones who will feature in the obituary column in due course, you have a lifetime of lorry driving ahead of you, do you really want to spend the next twenty/forty years on edge trying to stop people getting in front of you?

In these road works sections you will almost never find me in lane 2, i usually click the limiter on at about 73/75k’s and in most cases can travel the whole length of the works without getting near anyone else, also in the inside lane you only have to worry about others on one side of you, those lorries who go ploughing down the middle lane jammed right up the arse of some poor sod in a car (cos he’s only doing 48mph the swine :unamused: ) are invariably no more that 1/2 mile in front at the far end and when you watch their brake lights they’re constantly having to dab on the things to avoid getting closer than the cars length they think is a safe stopping distance.

I’ve been a passenger with a ■■■■ like that, terrifying, he took me out on my first load on Kwik Save some twenty five years back to show me the job, frightened the life out of me, impressive? no he was a ■■■■ then and still a ■■■■ now, he turned up at our place last year on agency, still can’t drive but the telematics/spyware which got examined after a member of the public complained saw his arse booted out, good riddance.

You cocked up mate and the nick is fair in my honest opinion, in retrospect you would have been better not to have given a statement at the roadside but whats done is done, you are lucky to have the option of a course, the damage you did will be a sight more than the costs you are incurring, learn from this, steady up and give yourself some stopping distance in future.

A good thing is to learn to drive not using your brakes, if you use the gears properly combined with the vehicle’s own auxilliary brakes (exhauster, retarder, whatever), you’ll find a whole new way of easy driving opening up, try it.
Forget brakes to slow gears to go as taught in training, its ■■■■■■■■, you do not drive a lorry like a car driver or this is what happens, drive like a lorry driver using the gears and auxilliary brakes fully, read the road as far as you can see and plan your approaches so the only time you need to brake is to bring the vehicles to a final halt, that’s professional lorry driving.

23

JaxDemon:
You wanna be thankful you was not going any faster as well tbh or you’d have been flat has a pancake.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

-1
…if you were going faster and flat to the mat as much as poss (cameras allowing) then you wouldnt have had the accident
1…you wouldnt have been in that lane as you would have been in the go faster lane,and
2…you would have been looking alert and watching out for your surroundings,hence not ploughed into the dude in front.
yet another driving too slow and brain numbed incident.theres plenty of them. :slight_smile:

24

Juddian:
A good thing is to learn to drive not using your brakes, if you use the gears properly combined with the vehicle’s own auxilliary brakes, you’ll find a whole new way of easy driving opening up, try it.
Forget brakes to slow gears to go as taught in training, its ■■■■■■■■, you do not drive a lorry like a car driver or this is what happens, drive like a lorry driver using the gears and auxilliary brakes fully, read the road as far as you can see and plan your approaches so the only time you need to brake is to bring the vehicles to a final halt, that’s professional lorry driving.

I’m new to driving class 1s and now I’m finally in some decent Volvo’s I’ve gotta admit after playing around with it I love sticking it in false neutral and using the air brakes from 1-3 to slow down. I’d use it in a car if I had it haha.

My place are big on saving fuel and the current stats they have is using false neutral is saving them more in fuel then using cruise control ect… so they are on about having Volvo in to play around with the trucks somehow. Tbf the new Volvo’s have saved them 500k a year on a 8 million pound fuel bill

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

25

JaxDemon:

Juddian:
A good thing is to learn to drive not using your brakes, if you use the gears properly combined with the vehicle’s own auxilliary brakes, you’ll find a whole new way of easy driving opening up, try it.
Forget brakes to slow gears to go as taught in training, its ■■■■■■■■, you do not drive a lorry like a car driver or this is what happens, drive like a lorry driver using the gears and auxilliary brakes fully, read the road as far as you can see and plan your approaches so the only time you need to brake is to bring the vehicles to a final halt, that’s professional lorry driving.

I’m new to driving class 1s and now I’m finally in some decent Volvo’s I’ve gotta admit after playing around with it I love sticking it in false neutral and using the air brakes from 1-3 to slow down. I’d use it in a car if I had it haha.

My place are big on saving fuel and the current stats they have is using false neutral is saving them more in fuel then using cruise control ect… so they are on about having Volvo in to play around with the trucks somehow. Tbf the new Volvo’s have saved them 500k a year on a 8 million pound fuel bill

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Those Volvo retarders are the dogs ■■■■■■■■, is that eco roll or whatever they call it you refer to as false neutral? its not something i’m that keen on to be honest, as far as i’m concerned its coasting and that was always a big no no (officially) even if we all did it going downhill before recording devices were installed :wink:, but fair enough if its working for you and you’re finding how much better driving can be with a decent retarder.

Nearly cocked up a few years ago with a FM, was on agency and my usual Axor was still out, so i had to take a rented FM out, what i hadn’t noticed cos it had been ages since i’d driven one was that the retarder was still in position 3…i bet you know whats coming next :blush:

Anyway, i’m empty on me usual little run, left the depot, its icy as hell out there with black ice on the ind est mini roundabout 1/2 mile up the road, i gets gingerly to the roundabout and suddenly the bloody box downshifts about three gears and the retarder engages at full tilt on number 3, oh brilliant :open_mouth: locked drive axle with a far from graceful slow motion jacknife starting just as i enter the roundabout :smiling_imp: , opposite lock (gawd nose what the trailer was doing) and quick switch off of the retarder saw the drive axle start to turn again and i managed somehow to get round without actually hitting anything, that woke me up.

So, when its slippy make sure you know the bloody thing’s not on unless you want it on :sunglasses:

26

churchills2:
Hi everyone, I need advice for the above subject.

I was travelling down the M6 south and come into the roadworks, I was in the middle lane doing about 40-45 keeping up with traffic and the lanes veer from right to left and there were mix of reflective green studs along with white lines.
I kept within the green studs but there was a car to my right who was getting really close to me, I was watching them and when I looked forward the HGV in front of me started braking heavily (turns out a car has cut up a the 1st truck and he slammed on… the second truck slammed on.
I was 3rd and I slammed on) and I braked as hard as I could but my HGV was sliding for at least 5 seconds and went into the back of the 2nd HGV causing minimal damage to 2nd trucks tail lights and my window was smashed and front plastics were cracked and my radiator blown.

Behind me was absolute mayhem and nobody went into the back of me other cars collided with trucks and 3 trucks were complete write off.

The emergency services all came and sorted and police took basic statement on A4 paper and asked me what happened and I signed it, I was also breathalysed and blew zero (last time I had an alcoholic drink was about 3 weeks ago).

Anyway the police are doing me and a load of others for driving without due care and attention.

My upset is yes I could have left more of a gap but how many truck drivers out there keep a safe gap and then a car/van comes in between you and vehicle in front and slam on making you slam on■■?

This happened several times before the accident so I closed the gap but it was still safe ditance but because I was watching the vehicle to my right I didnt give full attention to the front hence the crash.
I could have swerved left or right and avoided hitting the HGV in front of me but it means I would have wiped out iether car on iether side and I wasnt prepared to do that, the final impact was about 2-5 mph as I was sliding and I was maybe a metre or 2 short.

What can I do.
The police have referred me onto a “driver awareness course” for £150 but Im a temporary agency driver and cant afford the fine but will have to find the money, cant had that offence on my license as I will never get work.

I do feel I have been given a raw deal but I feel I have no choice but to accept it. If I left a safe gap someone would have got in between us and slammed on then i would have gone into back of them and they would always maintain they were “driving a safe speed listening to classical music in no hurry and gently braked and I went into back of them” and I get done for driving without due care and attention when I cant prove otherwise ad they get a nice whiplash claim, new car, PTSD, etc or I close the gap and have accident and get done for driving without due car and attention.

Also as you know most car drivers are normally driving at high speed whilst on thier phone or thier phone on thier left knee, as a trucker were higher up and can easily see.

Im stuck between a rock and a hard place and if I contest it It will cost me thousands in legal fee’s and may end up still being prosecuted or just accept it…admit liability… pay £150 and wait for it all to happen again■■?

All suggestions greatly appreciated. No persons were killed in this pile up just a few injuries and everyone walked away…

My pride was hurt more than any physical injuries I sustained

DONT ACCEPT ANYTHING atm!!!

Find out exactly why you are being done and if it is ( for example…not leaving a big enough gap )…get your lawyer or find out yoursel if that is actually a LAW as most of Highway Code is only a GUIDANCE and not the LAW!

If what you are being done with is NOT A LAW fight it all the way

Good Luck

27

sorry for late reply… been working away and forgot password so couldnt log on.

I decided im going to have to ■■■■ it up and take the course. If I appeal or contest then I have to go to court and plead my case, although I think I have a good chance of winning if I lose I will have CD40 for maybe up to 11 years on my license and despite my exuse may aswell have drink driving on it and nobody will employ me as despite valid reason, facts are facts, I was convicted of driving without due care and attention and legal fee’s will be about £1,000 so will take no points… do the day course, pay £150 but will be able to walk away with no points and no blemishes on my record. That way at least I can keep a job but thankyou anyways.

28

Thankyou everyone for all your responses and your points have been fair and mixed but all pointing in the right direction. despite my protest and excuses… it turns out to be the fact if, yes I was driving too close and despite my excuses the fact remains I hit another vehicle because I didnt keep a safe distance and as many people have pointed out what if I hit a car or a motorcycle, many could off, would off and should off’s but fact remains… I was in a motorway pile up and although I walked away unhurt… some people didnt, they were injured and may have life changing situation (like I said there were no deaths but one guy had to be cut out of his vehicle and air ambulance was called but turned away as guy said he was ok). I am grateful it wasnt worse and im only being put on a drivers course so I will lose a day for class work and a 2 days wages (£150) and learn from the course and be a better driver, keep my distance and think further ahead… if there a hgv in front give a bigger gap… if there a car in front… keep good distance and keep looking ahead, get dash cam to protect myself and if car cuts me up keep calm… keep my distance (not take registration and hunt them down and firebomb thier vehicle…just kidding). Shame I had to go through all this to come to recent decisions. Once again thankyou all and safe driving and wishing you the best.

29

Sounds like the best idea, don’t sweat it though even the best driver in the world (that’s me obviously) will have moments when he or she is too close to the vehicle in front.

By learning and conditioning yourself to create space and not care about buggers cutting in (occupational hazard) you will find that there’s less chance of being to close in the rare moments you need that safe emergency stopping distance.

Take the emotion out of your driving and you to may one day be almost as good as me… :wink:

Your licence is a privilege, do every thing you can to protect it, which reminds me the wife has to take 3 points for me again, bloody speed cameras…

30

Dipper_Dave:
Sounds like the best idea, don’t sweat it though even the best driver in the world (that’s me obviously) will have moments when he or she is too close to the vehicle in front.

By learning and conditioning yourself to create space and not care about buggers cutting in (occupational hazard) you will find that there’s less chance of being to close in the rare moments you need that safe emergency stopping distance.

Take the emotion out of your driving and you to may one day be almost as good as me… :wink:

Your licence is a privilege, do every thing you can to protect it, which reminds me the wife has to take 3 points for me again, bloody speed cameras…

Identity crisis Dave? Or are you really Grayson Perry pretending to be a butch trucker?

31

Juddian:

JaxDemon:

Juddian:
A good thing is to learn to drive not using your brakes, if you use the gears properly combined with the vehicle’s own auxilliary brakes, you’ll find a whole new way of easy driving opening up, try it.
Forget brakes to slow gears to go as taught in training, its ■■■■■■■■, you do not drive a lorry like a car driver or this is what happens, drive like a lorry driver using the gears and auxilliary brakes fully, read the road as far as you can see and plan your approaches so the only time you need to brake is to bring the vehicles to a final halt, that’s professional lorry driving.

I’m new to driving class 1s and now I’m finally in some decent Volvo’s I’ve gotta admit after playing around with it I love sticking it in false neutral and using the air brakes from 1-3 to slow down. I’d use it in a car if I had it haha.

My place are big on saving fuel and the current stats they have is using false neutral is saving them more in fuel then using cruise control ect… so they are on about having Volvo in to play around with the trucks somehow. Tbf the new Volvo’s have saved them 500k a year on a 8 million pound fuel bill

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Those Volvo retarders are the dogs ■■■■■■■■, is that eco roll or whatever they call it you refer to as false neutral? its not something i’m that keen on to be honest, as far as i’m concerned its coasting and that was always a big no no (officially) even if we all did it going downhill before recording devices were installed :wink:, but fair enough if its working for you and you’re finding how much better driving can be with a decent retarder.

Nearly cocked up a few years ago with a FM, was on agency and my usual Axor was still out, so i had to take a rented FM out, what i hadn’t noticed cos it had been ages since i’d driven one was that the retarder was still in position 3…i bet you know whats coming next :blush:

Anyway, i’m empty on me usual little run, left the depot, its icy as hell out there with black ice on the ind est mini roundabout 1/2 mile up the road, i gets gingerly to the roundabout and suddenly the bloody box downshifts about three gears and the retarder engages at full tilt on number 3, oh brilliant :open_mouth: locked drive axle with a far from graceful slow motion jacknife starting just as i enter the roundabout :smiling_imp: , opposite lock (gawd nose what the trailer was doing) and quick switch off of the retarder saw the drive axle start to turn again and i managed somehow to get round without actually hitting anything, that woke me up.

So, when its slippy make sure you know the bloody thing’s not on unless you want it on :sunglasses:

Yea Coasting 101 lol. Down hill. Slap it into false neutral and just use air brake if needed. Which to Doncaster and Back I’m always using it cause it’s too easy to hit 60mph+ haha.

I ranked 37 out of 120 drivers on the telematics which is not bad considering I’m a new driver. Been trained right but never in a rush anyway.

It’s false neutral that’s saving the most money so that’s what they are trying to get more of rather then using cruise control with the auto retarder if you select how many mph you wanna go over the cruise control limit.

Fortunately I’ve only had two artic driving jobs and my 2nd one has new trucks with a company that looks after them and will replace them every 4 years. Hopefully I don’t get bored here and wanna move which usually happens when the honeymoon period wears off.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

32

Juddian:
In these road works sections you will almost never find me in lane 2, i usually click the limiter on at about 73/75k’s and in most cases can travel the whole length of the works without getting near anyone else, also in the inside lane you only have to worry about others on one side of you, those lorries who go ploughing down the middle lane jammed right up the arse of some poor sod in a car (cos he’s only doing 48mph the swine :unamused: ) are invariably no more that 1/2 mile in front at the far end and when you watch their brake lights they’re constantly having to dab on the things to avoid getting closer than the cars length they think is a safe stopping distance.

Lane 2 is for when you know there’s a ■■■■■ of a slip road coming up, and a full block of cars will try and merge instantly without giving a seconds thought as to how they are going to divide and integrate into existing traffic on the carriageway. That’s about it for me!

It makes next to F all difference whether you’re going with the flow and not caring, or trying to push other vehicles.
Plus one is kinder on your blood pressure than others, along with Ovaltine or Coco! :wink:

Juddian:
A good thing is to learn to drive not using your brakes, if you use the gears properly combined with the vehicle’s own auxilliary brakes (exhauster, retarder, whatever), you’ll find a whole new way of easy driving opening up, try it.
Forget brakes to slow gears to go as taught in training, its ■■■■■■■■, you do not drive a lorry like a car driver or this is what happens, drive like a lorry driver using the gears and auxilliary brakes fully, read the road as far as you can see and plan your approaches so the only time you need to brake is to bring the vehicles to a final halt, that’s professional lorry driving.

Bang on! :sunglasses:
Truck driving has a far better flow about it when you leave space and anticipate what’s ahead, engage alternative braking and try to keep moving at a nice steady safe pace, letting things clear in front of you as you go. Something you won’t get if you’re up peoples arses, jabbing the brakes every 5 seconds… :unamused: Plus the load has a far gentler journey! :wink: