Dangerous goods advice- UK regs and ADR

[dieseldave]

Wheel Nut:

kwaka jack:

Wheel Nut:

kwaka jack:
Hey Dave, after some help.

Passed my ADR a few years ago now and I’ve never used it due to delays with lessons and test, now I’ve done everything and ready to drive but all the ADR info has gone. Can you remind me of all the paperwork I need to carry with me please.

I’m gonna be carrying Diesel, Nitrogen in both liquid and gas form, Helium in gas form as well as a class 9 liquid which is like washing up liquid but cant remember what it’s called.

please help…

How many is a FEW?

2/3

The only paperwork the driver has to carry is his ADR certificate and “Instructions in Writing” .These replaced the seperate Tremcards for each product. Obviously you will need the transport documents for the load or a valid cleaning certificate if the tank has been purged free.

The onus is on the shipper or manufacturer to supply the transport document, but the instructions in writing must be supplied by the carrier or yourself if you are an owner driver.

Malc,

You have this spot-on.

There haven’t been any really massive changes to ADR paperwork in the last 2-3 as asked by kwaka jack.

The 4-page IIW has had a little update though…

At the top of page #4 of the current version, there are pictures of the “environmentally hazardous substances” mark and the “elevated temperature substances” mark.

The ‘old’ (expired 30/06/11) IIW does not have those two signs anywhere on it and should no longer be used.

Other required documents:

[1] Driver’s ADR Certificate (original.)
[2] Means of identification, which includes a photograph ( = photo-ID.)
[3] VOSA tank approval certificate (Possibly.)
[4] HCDG load card (Possibly, and if so, it’s for UK use only.)

[kwaka_jack]

Cheers for the info guys

[adr1]

Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

[dieseldave]

ADR1:
Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

Hi,

That’s very interesting… any chance of a link to your source for that info please?

[adr1]

dieseldave:

ADR1:
Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

Hi,

That’s very interesting… any chance of a link to your source for that info please?

The information has been received by members of the Police Practitioners Forum on Dangerous Goods which is attended by VOSA, the Police and headed by the HSE. Being an active committee member of the NDGTC the committee has the relevant meetings content forwarded to us via our experts whom some actually attend these meeting.
Fixed penalties are still in the discussion stage but will probably follow with the new fixed penalty fines increase that is now imminent
Also their in an interesting story in this months T/O regarding VOSAs right to ask drivers to pull back curtains to inspect loads are secure. VOSA it appears only have the right to do this if they suspect that a load constitutes a danger

[wheel_nut]

dieseldave:

ADR1:
Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

Hi,

That’s very interesting… any chance of a link to your source for that info please?

Even more interesting Dave, they have just 1 DGSA in Hampshire. Is it you?

dft.gov.uk/mca/rptherbridge_police_0210.pdf

[dieseldave]

Wheel Nut:
Even more interesting Dave, they have just 1 DGSA in Hampshire. Is it you?

dft.gov.uk/mca/rptherbridge_police_0210.pdf

Hi Malc,

AFAIK, each police force area has at least one offcer trained as a DGSA, but it’s not me cos I’m not in the police nor do I have any connection with enforcement. (Sometimes, I wish that were otherwise. )

The one part of that presentation that I’m not sure about is “Appeal process via Employment tribunal” on slide #4.

[dieseldave]

ADR1:

dieseldave:

ADR1:
Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

Hi,

That’s very interesting… any chance of a link to your source for that info please?

The information has been received by members of the Police Practitioners Forum on Dangerous Goods which is attended by VOSA, the Police and headed by the HSE. Being an active committee member of the NDGTC the committee has the relevant meetings content forwarded to us via our experts whom some actually attend these meeting.
Fixed penalties are still in the discussion stage but will probably follow with the new fixed penalty fines increase that is now imminent
Also their in an interesting story in this months T/O regarding VOSAs right to ask drivers to pull back curtains to inspect loads are secure. VOSA it appears only have the right to do this if they suspect that a load constitutes a danger

Hi ADR1,

That’s very interesting, and thanks for the extra info.

I think it’s a great initiative, but…

I have two concerns…

1.)

Unless a company has a DGSA (ADR 1.8.3.1) who actually does what he’s supposed to (ADR 1.8.3.3,) I don’t think it’s fair to expose vehicle drivers to a potential financial penalty for anything that a DGSA is supposed to have dealt with. Maybe I’m missing some more info, but if public safety is the reason for this apparent shift of DG enforcement policy, wouldn’t the bigger picture suggest that it starts with enforcing ADR 1.8.3.1 on consignors and carriers??

After all, drivers are frequently following orders from office staff who haven’t the slightest clue.

IMHO a good starting point would be the HSE checking that the said office staff have had some relevant and documented training ( ADR 8.2.3 and 1.3 ).

2.)

IF it is considered that a light touch is still required, then wouldn’t an increase in the number of immediate PNs (as opposed to delayed PNs) have the desired effect because a PN that has immediate effect will disrupt the delivery schedule and hit the right people where it hurts without causing the authorities, or an innocent/unwitting driver, any significant burden??

==================================

If this policy come into force, will there be an definitive list (like in the German GGVSEB Bussgeldkatalog) of exactly which offences the UK Competent Authority deems to be a driver’s responsibility?

I’d also like to ask whether the TAP are included in the PPF meetings that you mentioned please?

[adr1]

dieseldave:

ADR1:

dieseldave:

ADR1:
Be aware that very shortly VOSA & Police will be issuing roadside penalties for breaches of ADR, no indorsments

Hi,

That’s very interesting… any chance of a link to your source for that info please?

The information has been received by members of the Police Practitioners Forum on Dangerous Goods which is attended by VOSA, the Police and headed by the HSE. Being an active committee member of the NDGTC the committee has the relevant meetings content forwarded to us via our experts whom some actually attend these meeting.
Fixed penalties are still in the discussion stage but will probably follow with the new fixed penalty fines increase that is now imminent
Also their in an interesting story in this months T/O regarding VOSAs right to ask drivers to pull back curtains to inspect loads are secure. VOSA it appears only have the right to do this if they suspect that a load constitutes a danger

Hi ADR1,

That’s very interesting, and thanks for the extra info.

I think it’s a great initiative, but…

I have two concerns…

1.)

Unless a company has a DGSA (ADR 1.8.3.1) who actually does what he’s supposed to (ADR 1.8.3.3,) I don’t think it’s fair to expose vehicle drivers to a potential financial penalty for anything that a DGSA is supposed to have dealt with. Maybe I’m missing some more info, but if public safety is the reason for this apparent shift of DG enforcement policy, wouldn’t the bigger picture suggest that it starts with enforcing ADR 1.8.3.1 on consignors and carriers??

After all, drivers are frequently following orders from office staff who haven’t the slightest clue.

IMHO a good starting point would be the HSE checking that the said office staff have had some relevant and documented training ( ADR 8.2.3 and 1.3 ).

2.)

IF it is considered that a light touch is still required, then wouldn’t an increase in the number of immediate PNs (as opposed to delayed PNs) have the desired effect because a PN that has immediate effect will disrupt the delivery schedule and hit the right people where it hurts without causing the authorities, or an innocent/unwitting driver, any significant burden??

==================================

If this policy come into force, will there be an definitive list (like in the German GGVSEB Bussgeldkatalog) of exactly which offences the UK Competent Authority deems to be a driver’s responsibility?

I’d also like to ask whether the TAP are included in the PPF meetings that you mentioned please?

Never seen this mentioned in TAP meetings, I also think the PPF meetings is a closed shop, but if you check out the HSE Dangerous Goods Prohibitions web site youll see why a lot of problems are down to drivers not carrying out checks before setting out or not reporting defective .
I make it a habit of showing this site on both ADR,Consignor & Vehicle operator courses that I deliver so that it makes everyone aware of what happens if the vehicle is not checked and stocked with the correct equipment and documentation
Like yourselves I am an independant DGSA and have been since its inception but I cannot be expected to stand over drivers and carriers on every journey they undertake.
My customers are provided with the rules and undertake the relevant training and I say with fingers crossed that the very few PNs I have had to deal with have been withdrawn
As for drivers I always preach that if they are told by the traffic office that it is okay to proceed without the correct or lack of equippment, either fill out the defect sheet or defect book before setting out on the journey
The second point regarding VOSAs stance on inspecting vehicle load security was not aimed at dangerous goods my apoligy if that whats you thought, it was a general comment highlighted on the front page of TO

[dieseldave]

ADR1:
Never seen this mentioned in TAP meetings, I also think the PPF meetings is a closed shop, but if you check out the HSE Dangerous Goods Prohibitions web site youll see why a lot of problems are down to drivers not carrying out checks before setting out or not reporting defective .

Hi ADR1,

I’m familiar with the HSE DG Prohibitions website, and it’s a great source of info.
I agree that a lot of the problems seem to be brought about by drivers failing to make the necessary checks, but I also think that there are two sides to that coin…

Many drivers make the checks and report them to the office staff, only to be told that “we’ll sort it when you get back,” or similar. There are also employers who take a more direct approach like “if you won’t do it, then we’ll get somebody who will.”

ADR1:
I make it a habit of showing this site on both ADR,Consignor & Vehicle operator courses that I deliver so that it makes everyone aware of what happens if the vehicle is not checked and stocked with the correct equipment and documentation

One of the ADR providers that I teach for has some of those HSE enforcement notices pinned on the noticeboard.

ADR1:
Like yourselves I am an independant DGSA and have been since its inception but I cannot be expected to stand over drivers and carriers on every journey they undertake.
My customers are provided with the rules and undertake the relevant training and I say with fingers crossed that the very few PNs I have had to deal with have been withdrawn.

My efforts in this regard have a mixed success, because sometimes a PN is correctly issued, although I have had quite a few withdrawn/modified for my customers.

I’m also a prolific ADR instructor for a number of providers, so I’m able to expalin the responsibilities directly to the drivers as part of the course. That way, I can work without employer influence.

ADR1:
As for drivers I always preach that if they are told by the traffic office that it is okay to proceed without the correct or lack of equippment, either fill out the defect sheet or defect book before setting out on the journey

That’s one way of doing it, but doesn’t that rely on the driver knowing whether ADR actually applies to a given job??
I think that many drivers would fill in a defect form in the belief that they’re ‘covering’ themselves, when in reality it’s the carrier’s responsibility to tell the driver whether ADR applies or not.

My stance on this is that if it’s LQs, that can be written on the delivery note by the consignor or carrier.
If it’s in accordance with 1.1.3.6, then that can be written on the delivery note by the consignor or carrier.
If it’s being carried by use of an SP…
If it’s not goods of Class X… you can see where this is going.

ADR1:
The second point regarding VOSAs stance on inspecting vehicle load security was not aimed at dangerous goods my apoligy if that whats you thought, it was a general comment highlighted on the front page of TO

I did wonder about that, but I honestly already thought it perfectly reasonable that VOSA could ask a driver to open the side of a curtainsider so they could check load security, segregation and package markings etc.

[baby_trucker]

Hi dave

Rog informed me that you give good advice and i just want to clear something up with a company that believe they are totaly in the right but im pretty sure they are wrong.
Now i have only had my ADR a few months and so far done 2 loads where ADR has come into it so i am a bit wet behind the ears but this is how it goes.

If i remember the course correctly the consignor has to supply stickers and information relating to the load being carried in both cases the load was Naptheleyne ( spelling? ) and according to paperwork PG II and class 9 misc thats fine as i have classes 1,2,3,4,5,6,8&9 on my ADR, the problem came when i asked for stickers to put on the trailer, i was told “I DO NOT NEED THEM” well again returning to memory i think i do and if i remember rightly one set each side one on the back end to let people know what class im carrying.

Well i refused to move so i politely but forcefully said either stickers or offload well they came back 5 minuets later with the stickers and a remark that i DO NOT NEED THEM and every other driver never puts them on.

The question is who is right?

all the loads are carried in IBC’s strapped down to the trailer curtain side.

[saratoga]

If it was a UK only journey then wouldn’t have an orange plate have sufficed on the vehicle, but the actual packages would have needed to have had labels?

[dieseldave]

baby_trucker:
Hi dave

Rog informed me that you give good advice and i just want to clear something up with a company that believe they are totaly in the right but im pretty sure they are wrong.
Now i have only had my ADR a few months and so far done 2 loads where ADR has come into it so i am a bit wet behind the ears but this is how it goes.

If i remember the course correctly the consignor has to supply stickers and information relating to the load being carried in both cases the load was Naptheleyne ( spelling? ) and according to paperwork PG II and class 9 misc thats fine as i have classes 1,2,3,4,5,6,8&9 on my ADR, the problem came when i asked for stickers to put on the trailer, i was told “I DO NOT NEED THEM” well again returning to memory i think i do and if i remember rightly one set each side one on the back end to let people know what class im carrying.

Hi baby_trucker,

When a vehicle carrying dangerous goods of UN Classes 2,3,4,5,6,8 or 9 in packages on a road journey is subject to full ADR, there is no requirement for placards to be displayed on the vehicle.
The vehicle marking requirements in this case are a plain orange coloured plate (40cm X 30cm) to be displayed on the front and another at the rear.

baby_trucker:
Well i refused to move so i politely but forcefully said either stickers or offload well they came back 5 minuets later with the stickers and a remark that i DO NOT NEED THEM and every other driver never puts them on.

The question is who is right?

all the loads are carried in IBC’s strapped down to the trailer curtain side.

Sorry mate, but I’m afraid that ‘they’ are right.

You would have been right if your vehicle was carrying the same amount of the same ‘stuff’ in an ISO container, but you mentioned “curtain side.”

Marking requirements are an easy thing to forget some time after you’ve sat an ADR course, because the marking requirements for vehicles and containers are easily confused due to them only having slight differences. Then they throw the IMDG requirements at you for when you’re on ferries, then it all gets rather blurred.

[dieseldave]

Saratoga:
If it was a UK only journey then wouldn’t have an orange plate have sufficed on the vehicle, but the actual packages would have needed to have had labels?

Hi Saratoga,

Yes mate, the packages would need to have UN Class labels (100mm X 100mm.)

The vehicle markings only need to be plain orange coloured plates on the front and rear for a national or international road journey.

When dangerous goods subject to full ADR are carried on a road vehicle on an international road journey, IMDG requires that UN Class placards (250mm X 250mm) only need to be displayed on a road vehicle whilst it is on a ferry.

[baby_trucker]

thanks for that well i guess i can eat my hat

[rog]

Dangerous Goods Driver Training - DGDT - New ADR card

Changes to ADR 2011 saw the current model paper certificate superseded by a plastic card that will include a recent photograph of the candidate with effect from 1 January 2013.

Please be advised that from Monday 29th October 2012 SQA will be issuing the new DGDT photo card certification for both Great Britain and Northern Ireland when a course has been sat after 22nd October 2012 or a replacement certificate is requested.

Example of the new DGDT photo card:

[ubiquitous]

Good Evening Dave

The other week I delivered a loaded Tank Container to the docks; marked up under ADR.
Four placards one on each side and a Kemler plate left and right showing HIN and UN No.
Plain orange boards front and rear.
The checker at the docks stated that if I didn’t put a UN No front and rear he wasn’t going to accept it.
If you can carry substances under ADR as explained, can the docks then enforce the showing of a UN No front and rear?

[rog]

Ubiquitous:
Good Evening Dave

The other week I delivered a loaded Tank Container to the docks; marked up under ADR.
Four placards one on each side and a Kemler plate left and right showing HIN and UN No.
Plain orange boards front and rear.
The checker at the docks stated that if I didn’t put a UN No front and rear he wasn’t going to accept it.
If you can carry substances under ADR as explained, can the docks then enforce the showing of a UN No front and rear?

MY GUESS based on very limited knowledge

As the load will be under the dangerous goods by sea regs (cannot remember what that is called !!) and not ADR regs then it seems right

Awaits DD to see if my GUESS is correct

[dieseldave]

Ubiquitous:
Good Evening Dave

The other week I delivered a loaded Tank Container to the docks; marked up under ADR.
Four placards one on each side and a Kemler plate left and right showing HIN and UN No.
Plain orange boards front and rear.

Hi Ubiquitous,

Under ADR (for the road leg of the journey,) you were correct to have marked the tank container with (diamond shaped) placards on all four sides.
The two “Kemler” plates with the appropriate UN number and HIN were also correctly displayed on each side of the tank container for travel by road.
Two plain orange plates, one on the front and one on the rear of your (carrying) vehicle are also correct for travel by road.

However, you then bumped into the Regs for carriage by sea (IMDG.)

Ubiquitous:
The checker at the docks stated that if I didn’t put a UN No front and rear he wasn’t going to accept it.
If you can carry substances under ADR as explained, can the docks then enforce the showing of a UN No front and rear?

The checker at the docks was correct, because IMDG requires tank containers to be:

• Placarded on all four sides, so you’re OK so far.
• Show the UN number [min size = 65mm] on all four sides (= like the placards, but see below *)
• Display the Proper Shipping Name (PSN) in writing [min size = 65mm] of the substance carried on the two long sides of the tank container. (You didn’t mention whether you had this.)

* Now we come to some choices.

Let’s say for example that you were carrying UN 1203 PETROL (Class 3)…

You can mark a tank container (on all four sides) for IMDG in the following ways:

As you can see, both methods show the relevant placard and UN number for the substance being carried, and both methods are equally acceptable under IMDG.

Another alternative for IMDG is that you could have had “Kemler” plates (plus placards) on all four sides to meet the requirement for the display of the UN number. The HINs are spurious to IMDG, because they don’t recognise them, so you’d be ‘overmarked’ for both road and sea if you used this method.
There’s no harm in that though.

[wheel_nut]

dieseldave:

Ubiquitous:
Good Evening Dave

The other week I delivered a loaded Tank Container to the docks; marked up under ADR.
Four placards one on each side and a Kemler plate left and right showing HIN and UN No.
Plain orange boards front and rear.

Hi Ubiquitous,

Under ADR (for the road leg of the journey,) you were correct to have marked the tank container with (diamond shaped) placards on all four sides.
The two “Kemler” plates with the appropriate UN number and HIN were also correctly displayed on each side of the tank container for travel by road.
Two plain orange plates, one on the front and one on the rear of your (carrying) vehicle are also correct for travel by road.

However, you then bumped into the Regs for carriage by sea (IMDG.)

Ubiquitous:
The checker at the docks stated that if I didn’t put a UN No front and rear he wasn’t going to accept it.
If you can carry substances under ADR as explained, can the docks then enforce the showing of a UN No front and rear?

The checker at the docks was correct, because IMDG requires tank containers to be:

• Placarded on all four sides, so you’re OK so far.
• Show the UN number [min size = 65mm] on all four sides (= like the placards, but see below *)
• Display the Proper Shipping Name (PSN) in writing [min size = 65mm] of the substance carried on the two long sides of the tank container. (You didn’t mention whether you had this.)

* Now we come to some choices.

Let’s say for example that you were carrying UN 1203 PETROL (Class 3)…

You can mark a tank container (on all four sides) for IMDG in the following ways:

As you can see, both methods show the relevant placard and UN number for the substance being carried, and both methods are equally acceptable under IMDG.

Another alternative for IMDG is that you could have had “Kemler” plates (plus placards) on all four sides to meet the requirement for the display of the UN number. The HINs are spurious to IMDG, because they don’t recognise them, so you’d be ‘overmarked’ for both road and sea if you used this method.
There’s no harm in that though.

Unless things have tightened up extremely, railheads & ports would accept example 1 of a class three placard with the UN numbers drawn on in black marker pen, in fact many factories gave out blank placards for this very reason.

Blank Kemler halves were also available to enter your own digits. Very handy if you carried lots of different commodities.