switchlogic:
Nonsense, the consumers are simply wrong, that’s the long and the short of it.
No the consumers know the value of a proper truck.
So you’ll have no problem with swapping a 2007 MAN/Volvo/Scania with that 2006 Australian KW and you can go laughing all the way to the bank at how wrong I was. 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Nonsense, the consumers are simply wrong, that’s the long and the short of it.No the consumers know the value of a proper truck.
So you’ll have no problem with swapping a 2007 MAN/Volvo/Scania with that 2006 Australian KW and you can go laughing all the way to the bank at how wrong I was.
Ok, in simplist terms, if you want a 2006 kenworth, pay 30k if you want a 2006 euro pay 5k … you can’t even say, yes I have driven a Australian built kenworth.
accept you are wrong…
trucksales.com.au/items/?q= … nge(…2006
trucks.autotrader.co.uk/search? … ode=e175pq
There you a comparison, sensible drivers would rather a modern auto 14 plate plus for the same equipment averaging between 1996 and 2006 … with some as high as 2.9m km on clock … engine rebuilds etc …
Point is for value for money a euro wins hands down.
And all big companies over here realise as much and are shying away from them pieces of junk which are now being banned from the kingsgrove tunnel etc.
Can’t be arsed to google it and pretend I’m an expert 
(sound familiar) but I would reckon Australian haulage is carrying a lot more weight than the US limits (roadtrains etc) and certainly more than the UK.
So I would reckon the 18 speed spec is for that.
I recall the bottom straight 4 gears on a Fuller box were perfectly adequate and low enough for any general haulage operation, so ignoring the fact that the idea of buying a motor from Australia would be totally ludicrous anyway (apart from in the mind of Carryfast) why tf would he need to, when he can buy a standard UK spec for a fraction of the price…unless he was into specialised heavy haulage, which he ain’t.
Another question is…
Why tf am I even entering into this ridiculous discussion?? 
Meanwhile, here’s a song that describes Carryfast’s style on here.
robroy:
Can’t be arsed to google it and pretend I’m an expert
So I would reckon the 18 speed spec is for that.
I recall the bottom straight 4 gears were perfectly adequate and low enough for any general haulage operation, so ignoring the idea of buying a motor from Australia would be totally ludicrous anyway (apart from in the mind of Carryfast) why tf would he need to, when he can buy a standard UK spec for a fraction of the price…unless he was into specialised heavy haulage, which he ain’t.
Another question is…Actually to be gross weight is not much more that the UK here, yes trucks are grossed upto 90t, bar qube running 2 full 45’s most are 45 single trailers running at iirc 42t… weights are not the same as the UK B-Doubles are a normal also… most new trucks are going auto over here… IMO and the majority better for the driver today…
Trouble with some, they are stuck in the past with rose tinted glasses on … they see progress as an issue, when in good to improve… is Air suspension seats are better than the old spring seats on the back … just like a forklift stopped handballing etc…
Why tf am I even entering into this ridiculous discussion??
Meanwhile, here’s a song that describes Carryfast’s style in here.
Carryfast:
discoman:
Carryfast:
Feel free to explain why a 2006 KW is worth £30k while a 2007 Euro heap is worth £5k.Those figures are set in stone fact.No, the facts are they are over priced.
Why, well because it’s a simple consumer demand, over here, there is insufficient consumer’ to force supplies to lower castings…
Furthermore, you are still missing the point, a 2006 kenworth, is not as higher spec as a euro model, if the kw are so good, why are all big organisation, ■■■■ as Woolworths,coles, lo fox, ronfinemore, etc … all going euro… because auto Euro are easier to maintain, get more value for your money … if you pay 30k for a truck in uk you get a darn better year than a 2006 … so compare a 2016 euro to a 2005/06 Kenworth…
But, you have never been to Australia to know that will you.
If only you could speak the Queens English what you actually mean is more consumer demand for 18 speed manual KW’s.As opposed to no demand for economic liability Euro wagons of equivalent age.The maths prove it.
Pardon the spelling, on an ipad, no, what is a fact is euro model trucks are out selling peterbuilt , freightliner, Kenworth etc…
DAF, Volvo all build here now … due to the progressive demands…
Diggerlot:
Jesus fellas…take a rain check !! As the person who started this thread, no offense but I couldn’t give a monkeys what happens in Australia owing to the fact that I live and work on the oppose side of the planet. My question was about the reliability of European mid 2000 manuals vs automatics … frankly in Australia people can be hauling trailers with hover craft for all I care (again no offense intended) I just want to know what is a cheaper & more reliable solution in UK / France without having to pay for Adblue and without needing a teenager with a laptop to fix it when it goes wrong! All the best P.
Adblue is cheap enough, if you bought a vehicle designed part egr part adblue they use minute quantities of the muck anyway, the problem with new vehicles is these adblue system will need work after so many years and eventually a whole new exhaust system, a modern exhaust can easily run to 5 figure costs and that will be a vehicle scrapper, i’m only surprised the CAT thieves haven’t got in on this yet with lorry drivers finding their exhausts have magically disappeared.
Another problem will be second guessing what the soon to be upgearing of the climate scam means for any of us running older vehicles of all descriptions.
Will the penalties for those (sensible people) who don’t want to spend vast sums on the latest euro spec and then electric cars vans trucks be so high that we’re more or less forced off the road if we don’t comply, what they’ve done in hell, sorry, that london, could very quickly be rolled out across the country.
I’ll re-iterate what i found using various autos from the mid noughties to the present day, ZF autos are generally reliable except for thrust bearing wear from around 500k kms, hardly nice to drive but reliable.
Volvos of the mid noughties were reliable machines overall, but in my humble are not as reliable gearbox wise in auto form as Scania equivalents, Scania 3 pedal Opticruise is a sound auto box once you’ve got used to it later 2 pedal boxes ok too, Scanias some 10/20% better on fuel than same power Volvos on the same work, 420 Scania probably the most economical lorry i’ve used, in manual keeping the revs to around 1000rpm you can attain staggering fuel figures that wouldn’t disgrace a 3/7.5 ton van.
One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Nonsense, the consumers are simply wrong, that’s the long and the short of it.No the consumers know the value of a proper truck.
So you’ll have no problem with swapping a 2007 MAN/Volvo/Scania with that 2006 Australian KW and you can go laughing all the way to the bank at how wrong I was.
Nope, it’s obvious, they all wrong. The consumers are simply wrong. What bit of this simple concept don’t you get?
Juddian:
Diggerlot:
Jesus fellas…take a rain check !! As the person who started this thread, no offense but I couldn’t give a monkeys what happens in Australia owing to the fact that I live and work on the oppose side of the planet. My question was about the reliability of European mid 2000 manuals vs automatics … frankly in Australia people can be hauling trailers with hover craft for all I care (again no offense intended) I just want to know what is a cheaper & more reliable solution in UK / France without having to pay for Adblue and without needing a teenager with a laptop to fix it when it goes wrong! All the best P.Adblue is cheap enough, if you bought a vehicle designed part egr part adblue they use minute quantities of the muck anyway, the problem with new vehicles is these adblue system will need work after so many years and eventually a whole new exhaust system, a modern exhaust can easily run to 5 figure costs and that will be a vehicle scrapper, i’m only surprised the CAT thieves haven’t got in on this yet with lorry drivers finding their exhausts have magically disappeared.
Another problem will be second guessing what the soon to be upgearing of the climate scam means for any of us running older vehicles of all descriptions.
Will the penalties for those (sensible people) who don’t want to spend vast sums on the latest euro spec and then electric cars vans trucks be so high that we’re more or less forced off the road if we don’t comply, what they’ve done in hell, sorry, that london, could very quickly be rolled out across the country.I’ll re-iterate what i found using various autos from the mid noughties to the present day, ZF autos are generally reliable except for thrust bearing wear from around 500k kms, hardly nice to drive but reliable.
Volvos of the mid noughties were reliable machines overall, but in my humble are not as reliable gearbox wise in auto form as Scania equivalents, Scania 3 pedal Opticruise is a sound auto box once you’ve got used to it later 2 pedal boxes ok too, Scanias some 10/20% better on fuel than same power Volvos on the same work, 420 Scania probably the most economical lorry i’ve used, in manual keeping the revs to around 1000rpm you can attain staggering fuel figures that wouldn’t disgrace a 3/7.5 ton van.One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.
Thanks that’s sage advice, yes I have to confess I had thought about a Merc. Scania would be nice but it’s difficult to find a low mileage one for sensible money.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
So you’ll have no problem with swapping a 2007 MAN/Volvo/Scania with that 2006 Australian KW and you can go laughing all the way to the bank at how wrong I was.Nope, it’s obvious, they all wrong. The consumers are simply wrong. What bit of this simple concept don’t you get?
What bit of the simple concept,
that Euro trucks are effectively almost scrap value at 15 years old because they really are just that, the OP’s correct view of a manual box being the only mitigation v waste of space money pit in that case ,
don’t you get.
Oh and that situation will only get worse as the 10-15 year threshold reaches the later even more complicated tech heaps.
At which point expect to see the values of old Australian KW’s increase even more.Especially when the usual ‘export’ markets vote with their wallets as the supply of even remotely viable Euro types dries up and they suddenly realise that the solution is just a phone call away ( at a price ).
Diggerlot:
Juddian:
Diggerlot:
Jesus fellas…take a rain check !! As the person who started this thread, no offense but I couldn’t give a monkeys what happens in Australia owing to the fact that I live and work on the oppose side of the planet. My question was about the reliability of European mid 2000 manuals vs automatics … frankly in Australia people can be hauling trailers with hover craft for all I care (again no offense intended) I just want to know what is a cheaper & more reliable solution in UK / France without having to pay for Adblue and without needing a teenager with a laptop to fix it when it goes wrong! All the best P.Adblue is cheap enough, if you bought a vehicle designed part egr part adblue they use minute quantities of the muck anyway, the problem with new vehicles is these adblue system will need work after so many years and eventually a whole new exhaust system, a modern exhaust can easily run to 5 figure costs and that will be a vehicle scrapper, i’m only surprised the CAT thieves haven’t got in on this yet with lorry drivers finding their exhausts have magically disappeared.
Another problem will be second guessing what the soon to be upgearing of the climate scam means for any of us running older vehicles of all descriptions.
Will the penalties for those (sensible people) who don’t want to spend vast sums on the latest euro spec and then electric cars vans trucks be so high that we’re more or less forced off the road if we don’t comply, what they’ve done in hell, sorry, that london, could very quickly be rolled out across the country.I’ll re-iterate what i found using various autos from the mid noughties to the present day, ZF autos are generally reliable except for thrust bearing wear from around 500k kms, hardly nice to drive but reliable.
Volvos of the mid noughties were reliable machines overall, but in my humble are not as reliable gearbox wise in auto form as Scania equivalents, Scania 3 pedal Opticruise is a sound auto box once you’ve got used to it later 2 pedal boxes ok too, Scanias some 10/20% better on fuel than same power Volvos on the same work, 420 Scania probably the most economical lorry i’ve used, in manual keeping the revs to around 1000rpm you can attain staggering fuel figures that wouldn’t disgrace a 3/7.5 ton van.One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.
Thanks that’s sage advice, yes I have to confess I had thought about a Merc. Scania would be nice but it’s difficult to find a low mileage one for sensible money.
Have you thought of a DAF CF or XF? … as said Adblue is cheap … the long run auto will be better if your concerned for clutch ride etc … maybe spending a couple of K more will get you a slighter better truck less mileage on clock … 15 year old rig will show its wear, and you might be spending more for upkeep than say a 2010 or 2011 truck… yeah, computers are a way of life on trucks … but a diagnostic check (basic) are cheap on auction sites etc … personally, I would got for a DAF XF.
Juddian:
One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.
Agree but the traction is terrible on them in the wet, it’s like driving on slicks even when the tyres are brand new. Also, trying to engage reverse will put your left shoulder out 
. They do pull extremely well though and in fact is the only Merc that actually pulls but only on the 430 engine of that era. Don’t get the 460 or any others higher or lower output as they can’t pull the skin off a rice pudding.
Also the Axor is really only for a local work. There is nowhere to relax your legs as the footwell area is very cramped. Long distance in them will crucify your knee joints after a while.
DCPCFML:
Juddian:
One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.Agree but the traction is terrible on them in the wet, it’s like driving on slicks even when the tyres are brand new. Also, trying to engage reverse will put your left shoulder out
Also the Axor is really only for a local work. There is nowhere to relax your legs as the footwell area is very cramped. Long distance in them will crucify your knee joints after a while.
Tyres make the difference, had an 06 plate hire unit for about 8 months, during which time it snowed like billio, it would not get stuck, just dug in and pulled itself out every time, sat on half worn BandVulc remoulds, course the driver has a lot more countrol over the mid lift on that era of Axor than on nearly everything else out there, you can if you so wish cruise at limiter speed fully freighted with the mid lift still up.
Yes its not the most comfortable of wagons but if i was an OD looking for a working reliable cheapish tool one would be high on my list.
Correct about power, 430 will lug right down to 800rpm and (14litre ■■■■■■■ like) you can hear the turbo spooling up and it’ll pull hard all the way through.
Just had a poke nose on TruckTrader, pity its auto but there’s a really decent low mileage 2011 or might be 2013 Axor tractor for sale with a rear tag axle, don’t think i’ve seen one with a rear lifter before, though with the short wheelbase between steer and drive axles it could be a hard ride.
Juddian:
DCPCFML:
Juddian:
One manual that hasn’t been mentioned, that’s the Mercedes Axor, 2543 in particular, with the 8 speed slapover manual box one of the most honest basic reliable vehicles you could buy. Cheap as chips to buy cos no kudos, do not buy an auto because their autobox ruins the truck completely IMO, but the manual is a different kettle of fish entirely.Agree but the traction is terrible on them in the wet, it’s like driving on slicks even when the tyres are brand new. Also, trying to engage reverse will put your left shoulder out
Also the Axor is really only for a local work. There is nowhere to relax your legs as the footwell area is very cramped. Long distance in them will crucify your knee joints after a while.
Tyres make the difference, had an 06 plate hire unit for about 8 months, during which time it snowed like billio, it would not get stuck, just dug in and pulled itself out every time, sat on half worn BandVulc remoulds, course the driver has a lot more countrol over the mid lift on that era of Axor than on nearly everything else out there, you can if you so wish cruise at limiter speed fully freighted with the mid lift still up.
Yes its not the most comfortable of wagons but if i was an OD looking for a working reliable cheapish tool one would be high on my list.
Correct about power, 430 will lug right down to 800rpm and (14litre ■■■■■■■ like) you can hear the turbo spooling up and it’ll pull hard all the way through.Just had a poke nose on TruckTrader, pity its auto but there’s a really decent low mileage 2011 or might be 2013 Axor tractor for sale with a rear tag axle, don’t think i’ve seen one with a rear lifter before, though with the short wheelbase between steer and drive axles it could be a hard ride.
I think your memory of them mjght be a bit cloudy as the mid lift axle used to drop even on those as soon as you put a ■■■ paper in the trailer. And you couldn’t override those either. They were renowned for it.
I agree about the power in those 430s. A modern euro 5 or euro 6 of the same power output would be left for dust. In fact I had a 66 plate euro 6 2543 when I drove for Turners last weekend and it wouldn’t even maintain speed up slight inclines with an empty fridge on the back . It was down to under 30mph climbing up Barton Hill on the A64, empty ! An absolute hateful thing to drive. Merc have really lost their way in the past decade, their trucks are complete and utter junk.
For local to mid distance work, yes, agreed again, I would be looking at them as an owner driver. Cheap as chips but good, reliable, no-nonsense trucks.